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Diethylstilbestrol - Did this drug make is transgender?

Started by ajtent, December 20, 2017, 02:20:18 PM

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ajtent

Diethylstilbestrol or DES.
I have been wondering why I am the way I am and bumped into this video and other links.
If you were born between 1941 and 1971, you may have been affected by this drug.



http://www.antijen.org/transadvocate/id33.html

https://diethylstilbestrol.co.uk/studies/des-and-gender-identity/
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Jessica

I am a DES baby and I definitely believe that it has played a role in my life and how I view myself as being transgender.

Jessica

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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ajtent

Jessica,
How did you prove the DES?
My mom is gone now but I know that she did have a miscarriage so I can only assume that she could have been placed on DES to prevent further miscarriages.
For some reason, I want to know more about this.
In one of the articles I read, they mention that it should be assumed that your mother was on that drug if you were born in the 50's or 60's.
I am very glad that you have answers.
AJ
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Jessica

My mother told me.  My brother was exposed also and had a cyst on his genitals.  It looked like a third ball as I recall.

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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KathyLauren

I am pretty sure I was affected by DES.  My mother had a miscarriage before I was born, so she would have been in the target group.  No way to ask her now, though.  I have several of the typical signs: very sparse body hair, female pubic hair pattern, female digit ratio, poor upper body strength.

Obviously it doesn't account for everyone who is trans today, but it might explain quite a few of us in this generation.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate
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Devlyn

To me the knowledge of DES exposure is an interesting tidbit to add to a conversation,  but has no value beyond that. Knowing it changes nothing, and does not assist me in any way.

Our HRT comes from the exact same company that put the DES in us then. I guess we trust them now?  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn
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Jessica

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 20, 2017, 02:56:50 PM
To me the knowledge of DES exposure is an interesting tidbit to add to a conversation,  but has no value beyond that. Knowing it changes nothing, and does not assist me in any way.

Our HRT comes from the exact same company that put the DES in us then. I guess we trust them now?  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn
.

The drug industry in the 50's didn't rely on testing for side effects, but for the desired effects.  Very irresponsible, but inactionable legally since it can't be proven that DES is the cause.  It's only circumstantial.  Laws were enacted to protect us.  Those laws here in USA are being eroded for the benefit of making more money.

Frowning, Jessica 🙇‍♀️

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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StacyRenee

My mother had several miscarriages between 1963 and 1973 (something like 6 or 7). DES was pulled in 1971. I wasn't born until 1974. Is it possible to have had residual effects? Could I be a DES baby as well?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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big kim

Was it available in England in the 50s? Mum had a miscarriage before me (1957).
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KathyLauren

Quote from: big kim on December 20, 2017, 04:54:11 PM
Was it available in England in the 50s? Mum had a miscarriage before me (1957).
Yes, it was used on both the UK and the US in those years.  My mother's miscarriage was in 1947.  She had me in 1954, in the UK.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate
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Cindy

Yes it was in use in the UK at that time. I am a DES child from Liverpool in 1953

This is a useful summary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol
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big kim

Thanks Cindy, almost certain I'm a DES kid, born October 57
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DawnOday

I believe it has affected my growth. I was born in 1951. I have 7 of 10 symptoms. Two having to do with formation of my genitals the other 5 are related to depression, heart disease, congestive heart failure, heart deformity, diabetes. I have known I was different since kindergarten. By the time I was an adult, I already could not ignore it. But what could I do. Little information, no internet, few role models, so I tried to be the best "guy" I could. But I could not be guy enough to make my marriage last. Now that I have begun HRT after all these years. My first marriage was my biggest failure. My current wife knew from the start and never brought it up. We have been together for 35 years. I finally confirmed what we already knew last year and she still supports me to the max.    http:\\DESACTION.ORG
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

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First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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HughE

Quote from: StacyRenee on December 20, 2017, 04:25:05 PM
My mother had several miscarriages between 1963 and 1973 (something like 6 or 7). DES was pulled in 1971. I wasn't born until 1974. Is it possible to have had residual effects? Could I be a DES baby as well?

DES wasn't pulled off the market in 1971. All that happened was that the FDA withdrew their approval for its use as a miscarriage treatment. Doctors within the US continued to prescribe it "off label" for several years after that, and it continued to be used throughout Europe throughout the 1970s.

What's more, it was replaced as a miscarriage preventative by a drug called hydroxyprogesterone caproate, and there's good theoretical reasons for thinking that hydroxyprogesterone caproate could be doing the same thing. Like DES, it's a manmade version of a female hormone (in this case progesterone), and has feminizing and testosterone-suppressing effects in adult men. The crucial thing is that it looks like it's being given in doses high enough to act as a chemical castration agent.

If you look at this recently published article I authored (thanks Hormones Matter!):

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/maternal-des-exposure-intersex-development-males/

it includes a section taken from the 1953 "Physician's Desk Reference", containing the manufacturer's recommendations for how DES should be prescribed. For chemical castration of prostate cancer patients, the induction dose was 3mg per day and the maintenance dose 1mg per day. As you can see from the table for preventing "accidents of pregnancy", the doses being used for miscarriage prevention were far higher than that (particularly during the second and third trimester). I believe that led to a situation coming about where a genetically male fetus was able to produce enough testosterone during the first trimester for male genital development to take place, but then had their testosterone suppressed to female levels or below for the remainder of the pregnancy, including the critical period when most of the differences between male and female brains are thought to arise (which is basically the entire second half of the pregnancy). Since testosterone and other testicular hormones are what drive male development, and in their absence, development occurs as female instead, this has produced people who are genetically male and look male, but have female brains. That's what I believe has happened anyway, and is why there's such a strong association between DES and MTF transgender.

If I'm right, it's very likely that hydroxyprogesterone caproate is doing the same thing, since the prescribing guidelines say to start it between week 16 and 21 after conception, and continue it for the remainder of the pregnancy. The dose used looks high enough to cause suppression of testicular hormones as well.

Unlike DES, hydroxyprogesterone caproate was never pulled off the market, and is still in use in pregnancies where the mother shows signs of going into premature labour, or has a history of preterm births. It's sold under the brand name "Makena" in the US, and as Proluton Depot elsewhere.
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