Nbj,

Welcome to Susan's, I'm sure a mod will be along shortly to present the welcome pack of links and other really useful information, in the mean time, come on in, pull up a chair, have a cuppa and when you're ready, tell us a little about yourself in the introductions forum.

Welcome again


Rowan

Great post Julia!

Rowan

Quote from: Sno on January 02, 2018, 04:16:22 AM
Nbj,

Welcome to Susan's, I'm sure a mod will be along shortly to present the welcome pack of links and other really useful information, in the mean time, come on in, pull up a chair, have a cuppa and when you're ready, tell us a little about yourself in the introductions forum.

Welcome again


Rowan

Hi Rowan!
Thanks your your welcoming words. I already was looking for the introduction forum, but couldn't find it (am on mobile, maybe that's why) could you/somebody please leave me a link, so that i can say hi to everyone?

Thanks again

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Hello NBJ, welcome to Susan's!

Quote from: Nbj on January 01, 2018, 11:47:11 AM
> You know, til right now I've been visiting this place a long time, everytime considering registering and every time thinking "nahh.., too soon". But when i read your text, i just HAD to answer, and to do so, join here. Am already sure it was the best choice i could have started this year with.

I agree. 

I have gained so much here for my transition - and wish the same for everyone.  The difference between just reading and being able to interact is like night and day. 

The Introductions Board is located here, and it would be great to see your intro! 

And some information we provide to all new members - guidelines and links to save you time:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	Cautionary Note	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

I am so glad you finally joined - welcome!

Kendra

Thank you Julia 🙋‍♀️ These are words all of us need to take heed and live a happier life by.

Hugs, Jessica 💁‍♀️

Hey Julia, well chosen and strong thoughts, as always.  Yeah, we need to sort of get an attitude as there are a number of times in my past that it was apparent that you just didn't get any respect until you said "no!", so to speak.  Relationships are important, trans or not, and we all crave good ones and I think want to give so much that we have to guard against accepting less than we are worth in exchange. 
     I was with my son and his wife and her family over Christmas and they all couldn't have been nicer.  I'd never met his in-laws before and the acceptance was overwhelming, even had really good conversations about things learned living in an outside the lines world (they are bi-racial couple) and the hugs from them all when it was time to go were as heartfelt as they get.  We have to make it clear that WE believe we are people of significant value and refuse to be treated as anything less, but I think we have to always to be ready to open our hearts to those who deserve it.  My experience has been that is the vast majority of people in my world, and after 67 very active years that is a pretty large world.  So, protect yourself as required, but keep a light heart and a smile and expect the best from people, not the worst.  Have a great New Year!  Toni
         

I agree with the not having toxic people in your life part. But i think its going to far, to cut out family members. I would never do that in any circumstance.

As I continue down this road your post is something I will never forget. Thank you so much

Julia, as well intended as you clearly are, your argument isn't one I can get on board with, particularly "all trans people" being your topic.

I don't pass and won't in the foreseeable future. People read my face, baldness, beard and I'm immediately gendered male. The fact that I'm wearing femme attire never enters the equation.

In the last couple of weeks I was accepted into one femme lesbian Meetup group, rejected by another and admitted to a generally lesbian group only after letting the organizer know yes I'm really female. This isn't a bridge I haven't had to cross before, and a thing I keep in mind is that being officially accepted into some group doesn't help much if the members aren't going to be happy with my presence.

Just yesterday I had the following from a group organizer:

Quotedear Sadie ...  While we do have several trans women in the group, they are more or less, passing. Since we are a LGBTQ group for feminine women in the Boston area, I want to continue to be as true to that as possible, as that is what other members expect upon joining. With that being said, I would very much like to keep your request on hold and revisit it in a few months, if you are open to that.   

My I think measured response:

Quotedear xxxx, I think I understand and certainly respect what you're saying.  I'm presently not in a position to afford electrolysis, wigs or the kind of full makeup application that would be required for beard cover. And so holding a few months isn't likely to make me passable.

I would submit to you that femme/feminine is in the brain, maybe the body and I don't see the requirement to be passable, pretty etc in the group's description "welcome all femme LGBTQ women".

All that said, I also fully understand that if whatever you decide, your membership would be on average unhappy to find me at your meetups that's not an easily solved equation.

Let me add that at least for now I've felt welcome at the (other femme) group and as I said in my first prompting message, I can find references etc for you.

So yes I accept "on hold" and let me ask you to get to know me or whatever process works for you.

Sincerely,

Sadie ( reachable at ... ) 

So you see, I've been having this conversation for 20 years. It's still not fun, I'm a little teary thinking about how long I've been doing this, not to say about my confusion before I realized.

To be sure, there are a lot of places I'm accepted now and most of my friends make me feel extremely happy in accepting me, however I'm also aware that transition has created distance from some people and no amount of insisting it ought to be otherwise is going to change that.

Julia these are good sentiments!!!! I agree we should not be accept being treated badly by anyone. We are people regardless of what kind of people. I see some of the comments are ohhhh, Julia you're naive and new to this. Well we don't need to go to the other side either. Where we just start treating people negatively because others have treated us as such. I believe as you that we will change people's hearts and minds with kindness. We will get no where by being mean and arguing with them. Now after repeated attempts to be nice to some people yes, do something. I have one at work that uses the excuse that he's known me for 2 years and knew my old name and it's hard to remember. At this point he is just not trying and being rude. When he uses my dead name I am going to ignore and if he asks me why I will tell him under no uncertain terms. This is my name use it and I will not answer to anything else. I will give an analogy of how about I call you by a name you don't go by some offensive one to go to the extreme but, it will prove my point. So there are some people that just won't change. It is frustrating and annoying. I totally agree with you but, at the same time we can't be pushovers and let people run us over. We do need to be nice to people and expect only the same back.

Quote from: SadieBlake on January 04, 2018, 07:00:18 AM
Julia, as well intended as you clearly are, your argument isn't one I can get on board with, particularly "all trans people" being your topic.

I don't pass and won't in the foreseeable future. People read my face, baldness, beard and I'm immediately gendered male. The fact that I'm wearing femme attire never enters the equation.

In the last couple of weeks I was accepted into one femme lesbian Meetup group, rejected by another and admitted to a generally lesbian group only after letting the organizer know yes I'm really female. This isn't a bridge I haven't had to cross before, and a thing I keep in mind is that being officially accepted into some group doesn't help much if the members aren't going to be happy with my presence.

Just yesterday I had the following from a group organizer:
My I think measured response:
So you see, I've been having this conversation for 20 years. It's still not fun, I'm a little teary thinking about how long I've been doing this, not to say about my confusion before I realized.

To be sure, there are a lot of places I'm accepted now and most of my friends make me feel extremely happy in accepting me, however I'm also aware that transition has created distance from some people and no amount of insisting it ought to be otherwise is going to change that.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. That's beyond messed up. I will never understand how an LGBT group can discriminate against other LGBT people. In my opinion any group that will only accept "passable" members isn't worth joining. Last year before I found this forum I was looking for a trans support group. I had emailed the leader of one group about joining and she asked if I could email a picture of myself. I asked why and she told me her support group is for passable transwomen.  That's disgusting! I told her to keep her membership. LGBT people know full well what it's like to be descriminated against and excluded. For them to then treat others that way is just wrong in every way.

While I agree in principle, it's shortsighted to make it an all type proposition. We have different situations such that they require their own unique solutions. The only absolute I'll give is that all of us should move towards being more authentic. How we get there is up to us.


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Quote from: Julia1996 on January 04, 2018, 09:32:27 AM
I'm so sorry that happened to you. That's beyond messed up. I will never understand how an LGBT group can discriminate against other LGBT people. In my opinion any group that will only accept "passable" members isn't worth joining. Last year before I found this forum I was looking for a trans support group. I had emailed the leader of one group about joining and she asked if I could email a picture of myself. I asked why and she told me her support group is for passable transwomen.  That's disgusting! I told her to keep her membership. LGBT people know full well what it's like to be descriminated against and excluded. For them to then treat others that way is just wrong in every way.

Julia, this is the nature of organizations, of people in groups. Not worth joining? When I began transition this described virtually all LGB, "T" was a brand new addition. What you are outraged about was the norm and passable was also a requirement for medical treatment. Should I be a hermit? Well ok I kindof an but I also engaged those groups to the extent that was possible. What were the options? Well ok I also gravitated to the leather/kink queer scene because as I've said elsewhere that's where I had the most acceptance.

Btw if trueselves.org were open to people over 40 frankly I think I'd be a member there instead of here. But then older transitioning women have a reputation that's probably not completely unjustified.

Just as in 2001 there was a place and need for groups exclusive to women and they usually drew the line at genetically female then for reasons I also understand and so chose to support those groups and still do the same.

Quote from: SadieBlake on January 04, 2018, 07:00:18 AM
In the last couple of weeks I was accepted into one femme lesbian Meetup group, rejected by another and admitted to a generally lesbian group only after letting the organizer know yes I'm really female. This isn't a bridge I haven't had to cross before, and a thing I keep in mind is that being officially accepted into some group doesn't help much if the members aren't going to be happy with my presence.

This is unfortunately very common with groups for older (over 40, etc) folks.  I've gone to lesbian LGBT meetups where the T turned out to be trans-men only, "Please leave." I've gone to groups with some 900 members, and was told that "we have four other transwomen, and you are welcome to hang out with them".  I've been escorted to a table in the corner where the bi and trans women were seated, and noticed the lack of mingling.

There's a strong unwritten code, "Trans shall only date trans" within the older lesbian community at least in the SF Bay Area.  It does tend to limit the dating pool rather severely, and the tendency to sort and isolate transwomen at meetups is... less than empowering.  I haven't found any honestly open and welcoming meetups here yet, and am not particularly interested in trying any more.

It's interesting that you mention this which brought to mind a comment my daughter had made since I come out to her.  She asked if I like men and I responded, no.  Then she says, you like women?  I responded more than men and she says that you're a woman who likes women and you are a lesbian.

I responded I guess so but I have notice more than one transwoman comment that she developed more of a liking for men or both having been on HRT.

So, we shall see.

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 04, 2018, 10:28:37 AM
This is unfortunately very common with groups for older (over 40, etc) folks.  I've gone to lesbian LGBT meetups where the T turned out to be trans-men only, "Please leave." I've gone to groups with some 900 members, and was told that "we have four other transwomen, and you are welcome to hang out with them".  I've been escorted to a table in the corner where the bi and trans women were seated, and noticed the lack of mingling.

There's a strong unwritten code, "Trans shall only date trans" within the older lesbian community at least in the SF Bay Area.  It does tend to limit the dating pool rather severely, and the tendency to sort and isolate transwomen at meetups is... less than empowering.  I haven't found any honestly open and welcoming meetups here yet, and am not particularly interested in trying any more.

Yes and yet note as I said, the younger and kink/leather groups IMX are more accepting and yes I've had some fun romantic / sexual encounters in this contexts.

What you relate Michelle is indeed frightening and for me it puts a real emphasis on the privilege of passing, which of course pretty well obviates those "rules".

And I guess here is where I'm very much in line with Julia, I am engaging these groups and committed to seeing where that leads. I'm presently quite overwhelmed. I'm trying to nurture sex in my primary relationship in the direction of satisfying sex between a woman who's wanted to be lesbian all her life (yes, that's me) and a woman who I can please quite well but who shows little interest in reciprocating. On the other hand, engaging these groups is an effort to be emotionally intimate with more women and that's working.

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 04, 2018, 10:28:37 AM
This is unfortunately very common with groups for older (over 40, etc) folks.  I've gone to lesbian LGBT meetups where the T turned out to be trans-men only, "Please leave." I've gone to groups with some 900 members, and was told that "we have four other transwomen, and you are welcome to hang out with them".  I've been escorted to a table in the corner where the bi and trans women were seated, and noticed the lack of mingling.

There's a strong unwritten code, "Trans shall only date trans" within the older lesbian community at least in the SF Bay Area.  It does tend to limit the dating pool rather severely, and the tendency to sort and isolate transwomen at meetups is... less than empowering.  I haven't found any honestly open and welcoming meetups here yet, and am not particularly interested in trying any more.

It's called tribalism. You would think that marginalized groups would do a better job of being inclusive, but they can be worse to their own than those that marginalize them. The only tribe that should matter is the human race. Unfortunately most are ignorant of how they operate and therefore we have a long way to go.


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Quote from: Maddie86 on January 01, 2018, 09:57:18 AM
very great points!! Last year I cut out a couple toxic friends from my life and it felt great! I'm not out to my family yet but I have a feeling I'm going to have to cut out my dad this year. I'm hoping for the best but I've had to cut him out before back when my parent got divorced, so I know I can do it but I'm really hoping that I won't have to, ugh.

as for the relationships, I've never been with anyone, and while I'm lonely I'm still ok and I don't think I'm going to settle for anyone who treats me bad!

Wow .. very similar situation with me. I'm lonely at times as well but like you I'm still ok. The right person for me and you is out there .. it just takes time.