I'm expanding on this thought: Is it bad if you think some misogyny is romantic? I know its really bad for women but as I learn more about myself and do therapy each week I am finding all kinds of things about my self I didn't know. Like I am realizing that I DO find certain guys attractive (I was looking at gay porn I was looking at guys how I would look at women, I wasn't looking at guys as a woman and now I know exactly why gay porn for women is not as popular as lesbian porn is for men) if they are really intelligent and have certain masculine qualities.

I really see myself after transitioning getting married to a man. As I mature I realize relationships are not just about sex like when I was in my 20's. But for some reason If I was married I wouldn't want to be "Lexi Hyphenated-Lastname self made independent woman (who might be married-but it doesn't matter if she is)"
No I want to be "SoandSo's wife: Mrs:SOandso) Of course I want the relationship to be fair
but (big but)
I have been the leader my whole life always the boss or manager or  owner of the company, people always come to me to fix their problems being between workers or technical or business that just take math and experience to figure out or how to get the customer to close tthe deal because no one else is as good at sales etc etc. I'm sick of always being chosen leader of the group. I want to follow for once and see whats it like. Thats another thing I never asked to be in any of these roles I just get thrown into leadership positions. Thats why I hate control freaks because being in control sucks its just more work and more responsibility.

I want to stay home and clean the house and cook and make sure my man has his dinner and cigar ready when he comes home and serve him in bed get him things when he asks. My dream job would be a 1950's house wife (less the wife beating and what ever other crimes they got away with in the 1950's).

To me that's female. Walking around in Power suits with a hyphenated last name on a power trip telling people what to do is not. Not to say woman can't do that but some do it like they are trying to out compete with men and over doing it. is like throwing away all the privilege you get like chivalry. I love having the door opened for me not having to buy drinks. I would love to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. There is so much less pressure. I think alot of these people that want to be the boss and ceo and manager have never done it their whole life and it just gets old. I don't care if it pays tons of money you can have that job. MY job will be making myself the best wife to a husband I am lucky to be married to. I can't wait to tell my family you are talking to the future Mrs. XXXX. Sorry if that was long I'm going to look at bride and groom photos on google and wish I was the bride like I always do.

There is nothing wrong with wanting what you want.  It is only mysogyny when women are treated unfairly, or put into restricted roles against their will. 

There is nothing bad about the way you feel. Some women are into that. It's actually a kink in the BDSM circle. It's actually called 1950s household. My boyfriend is a very dominant person. I'm willing to be submissive but that has strict limits. I pretty much live a housewife life at the moment. I wanted to wait to start school until next fall after I recovered from SRS. Once I start school the tending to 3 guys/housewife thing will stop. Personally I'm not interested in being a permanent housewife. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with you wanting that life.

Never thought of it as a fetish. I don't see it as that I see it as a role like father or mother.But it does have subissiveness to it. I really want to be the submissive I guess the girl who stands behind her man who can  jump into his arms if there is danger.

People that know me in my professional life would never expect in a million years for me to say this.

I have to to take the lead in my job. I don't mind doing that, but generally I'd rather not at home. I can be assertive if needed but sometimes its easier just to let someone else do it.

I honestly had never even thought of house wife even as a 0.000001% possibility of that ever happening to me but if I could be anything (like an astronaut when I grow up!) house wife would be in the top three assuming the husband makes more or equal to my capabilities, but that might cause a problem or at least reduce the pool of eligible bachelors greatly. Really he could control all the money take care of all of the decision I would have no problem with that. Any who is interested in me and vice versa would have to naturally be good with money for any relationship to work in the first place. Speaking a business we should create a crypto curriency that allows you to invest in transitioning trans people who's only goal in life is to marry and become a house wife and once they do their husband would pay a portion of his salary back in the form of new coins ensuring a return to the investors while also providing money for the current people to transition. Kind of like how social security isn't a savings account the people working now pay out to the the people who are retired right now. Which is why social security is such a robust system as long as population growth is expanding which it is. That would actually work problem is we have so few trans people. What is it like 0.001%? of Americans (I'm sure its the same in every country but won't be reported/diagnosed like that for obvious reasons). I know 0.1% of Americans are Blind and 60% are on social security of whole $737.00 per month! That's almost enough to pay for a 1/4 of a persons bare minimum living expense!

I have no idea how I would tell someone one a date I have no job and would rather not work. Tell a girl that on a date and only pepper spray can end a date faster.

Why are you conflating misogyny with traditional roles? Misogyny is hatred and disdain of women. If a woman herself wants to live a more traditional lifestyle that's not misogyny. That's just what she wants.

Well I can guess why you might be, modern attitudes have convinced several generations of women that this kind of lifestyle is terrible by default and any woman that wants it is a gender traitor.

Personally I think if two adults have a lifestyle together they both like that's none of society's business.

Hi Lexi,
I don't think what you are after is Misogyny, it sounds more like you just want someone else taking control for you.
You sound like a very strong person who shows this in their everyday life. I think it would be very difficult to be submissive if that is what your true nature is. I think you could do it for a short while but then become frustrated.
I am like that as well, every time I end up at a club, in a training session, a course etc. I end up being in charge of something as that is who I am. I have run my own business for 30 years and leadership is a gift that not all people have.
I would love my wife to take control of our relationship and make me more subservient but this is not in her nature. This would only be at home because at work I need to run my company.
I do wish you luck in finding a partner that will love and guide you and you get to enjoy the release of pressure and have a subservient lifestyle.

Quote from: SueNZ on January 10, 2018, 06:28:47 PM
Hi Lexi,
I don't think what you are after is Misogyny, it sounds more like you just want someone else taking control for you.
You sound like a very strong person who shows this in their everyday life. I think it would be very difficult to be submissive if that is what your true nature is. I think you could do it for a short while but then become frustrated.
I am like that as well, every time I end up at a club, in a training session, a course etc. I end up being in charge of something as that is who I am. I have run my own business for 30 years and leadership is a gift that not all people have.
I would love my wife to take control of our relationship and make me more subservient but this is not in her nature. This would only be at home because at work I need to run my company.
I do wish you luck in finding a partner that will love and guide you and you get to enjoy the release of pressure and have a subservient lifestyle.

Thats a very good point and you have very nice hair and like that little bow thing in it.

I see what you mean by how I might get frustrated with it but for some reason I actually find it relaxing. Kind of like I'm really claustrophobic but when my partner restrains me instead of freaking out I feel really calm.

Quote from: Lexi Nexi on January 10, 2018, 06:42:34 PM
Thats a very good point and you have very nice hair and like that little bow thing in it.

I see what you mean by how I might get frustrated with it but for some reason I actually find it relaxing. Kind of like I'm really claustrophobic but when my partner restrains me instead of freaking out I feel really calm.

Thank you Lexi,
I wish it was my real hair but bald as a badger, just a wig unfortunately.
I do understand the relaxing angle as I am getting well over always having to have the answers and do a majority of problem solving. I guess there comes a time when you want to be needed for just being you rather than more.

Quote from: SueNZ on January 10, 2018, 09:12:29 PM
Thank you Lexi,
I wish it was my real hair but bald as a badger, just a wig unfortunately.
I do understand the relaxing angle as I am getting well over always having to have the answers and do a majority of problem solving. I guess there comes a time when you want to be needed for just being you rather than more.

I always got a kick out of the people who want to be the boss and act like the boss when you are not there but have none of the answer or problem solving skills to back it up. Like people have no experience but they are 100% sure you are not doing it right but don't offer a correct way to do it. I worked for a company as a saleman's and the company had a full time computer guy and the computer would break and the would say "don't bother calling the computer guy just wait until Lexi comes in a she will fix it". Which is great not getting paid to do someone else's job but I knew if I fixed the computer that it would work right until someone else touched it.

I was acting as the "marketing department" of this small business once managing their online presence and doing logo's and signs and their "sales manager" who managed 1.5 full time employees and wouldn't even give the sales people the passwords to check their own email.He had to have the precious pass words. He was 45 years old compleate <not allowed> idiot probably didn't pass the 9th grade. One day I was showin them what their new web site looked like because this guy tried to set up on his own and just screwed the whole thing looked like ->-bleeped-<- was all different colors looked like some kid playing with his fathers computer. The guy starts like telling me what to do so I kept playing along with it and as I'm doing it I realize that he thinks that I'm one their employees that works under him and that some how doesn't ever have to come into work and just stops by once a week to pick up not a pay check but a regular vendor account check (hmmm I wonder if he thought the parts delivery people were also employees that got paid every time they showed up for work?). One day he was trying to get me to change a logo I made for them because it replaced the stock generic website logo he claimed he "made". So the guy starts actually barking orders at me though text message on my phone and I just said listen I don't normally have the employees of my customers contacting me let alone my customers start making custom changes to the work after its paid for. Dude freaks out changes the passwords on all their websites <not allowed> and I tell them I'm done with the job and not to have their employees call me anymore. Before I left I told them do you want the passwords and all the credentials for you domains? The owner tells me hes busy and ask the sales manager so I text him and he has no idea what I'm talking about so he ignores me twice. Oops. You just terminated the contract with the person that controls all your online presence and your employees have pissed them off. They hire another company to do their online stuff and they realize they just told me to <not allowed> and have none of the passwords or intellectual property rights to any of their stuff and technically I own all their stuff. So they start calling my phone like mad to get all the password and accounts transferred back. I told them they would have to contact my boss on the project who was none other then their sales manager. I heard they fired the guy shortly there after for not selling one dollar in inventory in two months. For fun I checked their web site traffic two months later and saw that two days after I left they changed something by calling the domain company and made the visitors on their web site go down from the 550 a day I generated to about 10. That's just throwing away thousands so a grown ass adult can pretend he the boss.

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Quote from: Viktor on January 10, 2018, 06:19:46 PM
Why are you conflating misogyny with traditional roles? Misogyny is hatred and disdain of women. If a woman herself wants to live a more traditional lifestyle that's not misogyny. That's just what she wants.

Well I can guess why you might be, modern attitudes have convinced several generations of women that this kind of lifestyle is terrible by default and any woman that wants it is a gender traitor.

Personally I think if two adults have a lifestyle together they both like that's none of society's business.

Unfortunately, it is a particularly vocal crowd who do hold that attitude and think traditional roles are inherently misogynist, and that anyone who engages in even the smallest example of them is a traitor. Even the simplest stuff. A guy opens a door for a woman? Clearly a monster.

And heaven forbid if he pays for dinner, that's a #metoo moment if there ever was one. My sister and I were discussing this the other day, and we are in agreement, if someone wants to pay for our food, male or female, have at it. Free food is awesome no matter what.

(I know what I wrote was a little redundant, I'm tired and thinking original thoughts is hard.)

Quote from: Lexi Nexi on January 10, 2018, 08:14:48 AM

To me that's female.

Ouch.  Whatever floats your boat I guess, but most women don't want to go back to Father Knows Best.  Is it possible that you are reacting to the business and stress of your daily grind by imaging that home is a place immune from such pressures?  Before you decide that being a housewife is a tranquil and sheltered existence, you might want to talk to a few housewives.

Quote from: Roll on January 10, 2018, 11:06:09 PM
Unfortunately, it is a particularly vocal crowd who do hold that attitude and think traditional roles are inherently misogynist, and that anyone who engages in even the smallest example of them is a traitor. Even the simplest stuff. A guy opens a door for a woman? Clearly a monster.

And heaven forbid if he pays for dinner, that's a #metoo moment if there ever was one. My sister and I were discussing this the other day, and we are in agreement, if someone wants to pay for our food, male or female, have at it. Free food is awesome no matter what.

(I know what I wrote was a little redundant, I'm tired and thinking original thoughts is hard.)

Once I was walking into Walmart and I was behind a man and woman. When the guy held the door open for the woman in front of me she said she was fully capable of opening a door and didn't need a man to open it for her. WTF? Evidently the guy was a smart ass ( my kind of people) and he said " sorry I thought you needed some help with the door because you're so busy swinging your Dick"  OMG, I died laughing!  And yes it was a CIS woman. I really don't understand the women who act that way. Guys hold doors for me all the time. I smile and say thank you. My boyfriend always opens doors and pulls out chairs for me. He even walks around and opens my car door for me. He always pays for everything when we go out. When we first started dating he was still in school and didn't have a lot of money so I offered to pay for dinner once and he got a little annoyed and told me he would pay for it and that he wouldn't have asked me to dinner if he couldn't pay for it. He also always drives when we go someplace because he thinks it's weird for a girl to drive a guy around which is fine with me. I hate driving. I have no problem with any of that. Tristan can be a little sexist and he has a lot of male pride but I'm ok with that because he's also very loving and sweet.

I agree with everyone who said there's nothing wrong with that. Nor do I think it is misogyny at all.

Yeah lets face it. Any one of us can be strong, independant, feminist (or even feminazi) wealthy, beautiful or ugly, BUT WE ALL GET TIRED.

Someone picks up on the possiblity I might be a little worn out and run down or every once in a while 'pmsy' and wants to help me carry something at work? Great.
Thanks for being a decent human.

Someone wants to hold a door open for me when Im only a few paces behind because they dont feel like letting it slam in my face? Thanks for being a decent human. Though it is awkward when youre like a hundred paces back and they stand there waiting like a whanker.. Unless theyre really cute then I dont mind so much..

I dont care who pays for what. I typically make more money than MOST PEOPLE male or female because my job is dangerous, demanding, and physically taxing. Understanding that, if I can I'll cover anyone. If someone wants to split the bills or pay for me too sure awesome. What goes around comes around.

Changing my tires at my dads place, when I was wearing tights with shorts over them and he comments, 'youre gonna wear that changing tires?' I dont care. Its not proper work wear. Hes completely right and I did feel a bit silly. Its not misogyny. I chirp the guys at work who wear skinny hipster jeans or their pants around their knees like a thug all the time. Dress for what your doing. *shrug.*

While I dont necessarily place gender on any of this because everybody should be decent to everyone and pay it forward, even on a romantic level, I'll admmit fully, its just as satisfying and sometimes even more so to be the one being pursued rather thal always pursuing. Its not sexist. Its flattering to be wanted. (And like I said, sometimes we all are just too damn tired to give a damn and its nice when someone else gives a damn FOR us.)

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Quote from: rmaddy on January 11, 2018, 12:48:59 AM
Ouch.  Whatever floats your boat I guess, but most women don't want to go back to Father Knows Best.  Is it possible that you are reacting to the business and stress of your daily grind by imaging that home is a place immune from such pressures?  Before you decide that being a housewife is a tranquil and sheltered existence, you might want to talk to a few housewives.

I'm not a housewife but I pretty much live that life right now. I only do it because I only work part time. It's not fun and it's not anything to romanticize. In a word it's BORING!  From the way a housewife is portrayed in old TV shows it seems like you would always be busy, but in reality, unless you're going to do stupid things like iron socks or vacuum ceilings like the women on those shows, it gets boring. There's only so much cleaning to do. A lot of the day leaves you with nothing to do. There's only so much TV you can watch and daytime TV sucks anyway even with cable. If I didn't have this site to talk to people I would go nuts. Thankfully I'm having SRS in may and once I recover from that I will be starting school. I would never want to be a housewife all the time. It's not fun! And if you have the idea your husband will appreciate all the things you do and give you thanks, forget that. The only time guys even notice the stuff you do is if you don't do it. He's not going to come home from work and tell you the house looks great. But if you don't do anything he totally will say " this place is a mess. Are you sick or something"?  Be careful what you wish for.

Quote from: rmaddy on January 11, 2018, 12:48:59 AM
Ouch.  Whatever floats your boat I guess, but most women don't want to go back to Father Knows Best.  Is it possible that you are reacting to the business and stress of your daily grind by imaging that home is a place immune from such pressures?  Before you decide that being a housewife is a tranquil and sheltered existence, you might want to talk to a few housewives.

Important point here. Housewives are some of the hardest working people on the planet, and I've seen studies that show if they were a salaried employee somewhere for what the average housewife does, they'd be making 6 figures easy. That's part of the reason I don't care for the complaints about women (and men) who choose to engage in that role, as it is one of the most demanding and important roles in society. It should be a decision lauded with respect, not disdain.

Just be more self directed.

Don't look at other women to decide what it is you want. They won't be able to tell you what it is you want, or they might even give you the worst kind of advice about what you should do as if all women think alike. There are plenty of them out there who have a very narrow view on what a woman should be and do, despite claiming they know what's best for all of them.

Since some have spent decades grooming us all to believe that we can have everything we could want, and fit it all in to one life without being overwhelmed, I have noticed some very unhappy women out there. As if they have been told they should put ambition and feminism and all of that far above what it is that they truly want... even to the point of being told marriage to a man and having children are somehow belittling. After all the men have been chased and shamed away, I do hear some of them complaining there's no men around to sweep them off their feet any more or treat them with the old-fashioned reverence men traditionally reserved for women (probably because they were told that didn't exist, too). Can't have everything and everything has to be paid for somehow. There are definitely some people out there who are much happier running a home and having kids and letting the guy do the grunt work and bring back the bread, and they should probably go for that if they want to be happy. While they still can, I suppose. After all, in the "old days" one man's salary could pay for a whole family - these days, not so much, for the average person. It's getting rarer to find men with salaries that can afford a comfortable home and a partner taken care of.

Quote from: Roll on January 11, 2018, 10:20:19 AM
Important point here. Housewives are some of the hardest working people on the planet, and I've seen studies that show if they were a salaried employee somewhere for what the average housewife does, they'd be making 6 figures easy. That's part of the reason I don't care for the complaints about women (and men) who choose to engage in that role, as it is one of the most demanding and important roles in society. It should be a decision lauded with respect, not disdain.

If you add children or especially babies to the equation then forget ever being bored. Get used to being exausted all the time. I babysat a couple of times. Once for a six month old infant and once with a 2 year old. It was totally exhausting, especially the 2 year old. You can't just leave them to their own devices because they get into everything. I was worn out chasing that little house ape all night. Add a 2 year old to trying to take care of a house or worse yet, an infant and a 2 year old and there's a recipe for a straight jacket right there. My dad did that every night and every weekend. I give him a lot of credit. I don't know he didn't go nuts.

People have a really negative opinion of men who don't work and take care of the children. My dad worked of course and took us to our grandmas house while he worked but after he got home it was up to him to take care of us. He's told me how people would say stuff to him when he was out in public with a 2 year old and an infant. He said many times women would tell him we were cute and then ask him if he had lost his wife. When he would tell them no, he said they pretty much would say the same thing to him "oh.....sorry. You're grocery shopping with 2 small kids so I just thought maybe you had lost your wife". Then they would give him a weird look. He said sometimes they would even ask him did he work. And once a woman asked him if he had a same sex partner and they had adopted us. Lol!  And once a couple of older women started going off on him for having Tyler on a leash. It wasn't a leash, it was one of those things you put on a child's wrist and it has a long cable and the other end goes on the parent's wrist. He did that because Tyler liked to go running off in stores. He said one of the old ladies said that's why you shouldn't leave kids alone with a man and then asked him if that child's mother knew he was keeping him on a leash. Lol. No, our mom would never have used one of those things. She would just crack a window and leave us in the car. Lol.  That was back in 1998 but people still seem to have the same attitude now. If a man has lost his wife the thinking seems to be, oh poor thing. You're so brave and wonderful for caring for those kids. But if a man is just taking care of the kids the thinking seems to be, you have a wife and you're grocery shopping and caring for 2 kids. What kind of weirdo are you?? It's funny how a lot of women are offended by male stereotypes but they perpetuate a lot of them. I say women because it was always women who said something to my dad. I seriously doubt guys would care about it or even think about it. One thing I've noticed about guys is if other guys are concerned and it's something that doesn't concern them directly, they tend to mind their own business.  Women could be a little more like that.