This scares the hell out of me and really the only reason that stopped me from taking more and body building while I was on it was because I was so scared it would fall out. I'm 35 and it hasn't thinned yet seems to be just in the regular kind of horse shoe shaped front. I don't know if this is possible but I have seen pictures on trans girls that look like they had the horse shoe shape flattened out. How does this work? Do they cut off the center and pull the scalp forward like a reverse face lift?

Quote from: Lexi Nexi on January 10, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
This scares the hell out of me and really the only reason that stopped me from taking more and body building while I was on it was because I was so scared it would fall out. I'm 35 and it hasn't thinned yet seems to be just in the regular kind of horse shoe shaped front. I don't know if this is possible but I have seen pictures on trans girls that look like they had the horse shoe shape flattened out. How does this work? Do they cut off the center and pull the scalp forward like a reverse face lift?

There are a couple of ways this happens.

In Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS) when a brow bone reduction is done by rebuilding the bone over the frontal sinus, an incision can be made high on the forehead very close to the hairline, and as part of closing a strip of skin can be removed, 'tightening' the forehead, raising the eyebrows and lowering the hairline.

Hair transplantation is often used to alter the hairline, filling in the corners and lowering the hairline to produce the smoother feminine appearance rather than the masculine 'M' shape.  This may be done following FFS to cover the incision and further hide it, as well as produce a more feminine appearance.

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 10, 2018, 06:39:25 PM
There are a couple of ways this happens.

In Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS) when a brow bone reduction is done by rebuilding the bone over the frontal sinus, an incision can be made high on the forehead very close to the hairline, and as part of closing a strip of skin can be removed, 'tightening' the forehead, raising the eyebrows and lowering the hairline.

Hair transplantation is often used to alter the hairline, filling in the corners and lowering the hairline to produce the smoother feminine appearance rather than the masculine 'M' shape.  This may be done following FFS to cover the incision and further hide it, as well as produce a more feminine appearance.

So there seems to be alot of options.

Platinum subscriber wow! I can say there is one charity that I am a platnum subscriber to (or was before my injury). Doesn't that feel so much more rewarding then buying yourself a fancy italian car? I never believed it until I sold mine and donated the proceeds.

LOL!  Susan has a pretty low threshold for platinum.

The surgeon who will be doing my FFS, which will include brow reduction, had an interesting request of me.  Come surgery day, she wants me to wear my favorite wig, so she can mark the incision based on the wig's hairline!  Then, if I do get hair transplants and cover over the incision, the hairline will nicely match the one from my wig.

My hair loss has definitely slowed down since I started HRT.  I suppose a really good transplant specialist might be able to do something with what I have left, but honestly, I figure it's too far gone.  That's what wigs are for.

If I remember right the thinning of the hair and male pattern baldness is greatly influenced by DHT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone I believe it is also several times more potent than Testosterone and is aromatized from testosterone. There are some meds that block the process, the aromatization?, of T to DHT. Since DHT is made from T then having a lower T count will likely affect the amount of DHT in your system, though I could be wrong. However, if you were on T (For body building? As a gal? or guy?) then likely your DHT levels increased somewhat which could cause your hair line to reccess somewhat and hair to thin. I think I read that progesterone has some process that either counter acts DHT or slows the conversion process from T to DHT, but I don't have any scientific articles on it. I think I do recall a gal taking P and seeing a bit of hair return to the corners of the M in male pattern baldness, though I guess it could have also been a progress of going on HRT with E and just seeing a natural process!

A lot's down to genetics. If your grandad on mother's side was bald there's a good chance of it being passed on to you.

I think my situation is a bit rare but after I started going HRT my hair loss not only stopped, I also started growing back hair that was lost.

I've got little baby hairs coming in in places, but it doesn't look like HRT alone is going to completely reverse what I had. I'd hardly be the first woman with widow's peaks though...

A lot is down to genetics like you said but for example you can be born a male and never take HRT and you will not grow breasts yet same scenario but take estradiol injectable and you will turn as female as you can possibly become at that stage of your life. Same way if you body build and inject T this will increase the amount of T in your body and thus the proccess that changes T to DHT will likely increase and DHT is also a strong factor for male pattern baldness. DHT is several more times portent than T. It does a lot of things but it is linked toward male pattern badlness. Like someone else mentioned once you go on HRT your male pattern baldness might stop and you might end up getting baby hairs back which I see is listed here by someone and I've herd this before from other girls too. Personally I have been applying a small amount of progesterone cream bio identicla usp from amazon on to my hairline where the mail pattern baldness is usually associated and I've notied that either my body is not shedding extra hair on that spot or is allowing baby hairs to grow to slightly reduce the accents of the M pattern. I've read that progesterone can help with male pattern baldness but I can't find any articles to back it up . Anyway my internet access is really limited now.

Quote from: Asakawa on January 10, 2018, 09:39:56 PM
If I remember right the thinning of the hair and male pattern baldness is greatly influenced by DHT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone I believe it is also several times more potent than Testosterone and is aromatized from testosterone. There are some meds that block the process, the aromatization?, of T to DHT. Since DHT is made from T then having a lower T count will likely affect the amount of DHT in your system, though I could be wrong. However, if you were on T (For body building? As a gal? or guy?) then likely your DHT levels increased somewhat which could cause your hair line to reccess somewhat and hair to thin. I think I read that progesterone has some process that either counter acts DHT or slows the conversion process from T to DHT, but I don't have any scientific articles on it. I think I do recall a gal taking P and seeing a bit of hair return to the corners of the M in male pattern baldness, though I guess it could have also been a progress of going on HRT with E and just seeing a natural process!

This is correct.  There are several types of alopecia.  This is androgenic alopecia.  Testosterone is only indirectly related to hair loss.  Testosterone in the bloodstream combines with an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase which forms  DHT (Dihydrotestosterone). For some reason teh hair follicles above the round of the head are extremely sensitive to DHT.  The DHT binds with these follicles and causes the follicle opening to shrink.  After each growth cycle the hair becomes thinner in diameter until it becomes vellus like and eventually the follicle becomes dormant.  It is a very slow and insidious process.  Cis males typically lose 30% of their hair before recessions or thinning becomes obvious and that is generally before they reach their mid 30s.  That's scary.

What it comes down to is our genetic code.  Some fortunate ones can be swimming in DHT but because their code doesn't make them sensitive to DHT no matter the bloodstream level their loss remains undetectable.    most are somewhat sensitive and they experience significant loss even with low levels of DHT.

Propecia and Dutesteride interfere with the process at the systemic level.  Rogaine and minoxidil are applied topically.  Progesterone also interferes with the conversion at the systemic level however when concurrently taken with one of the first 2 meds, they interfere with the body's natural conversion of progesterone into other steroids, for an extended period of time even after they have been stopped. 

One of the side effects of interfering with the conversion of T to DHT is generally a significant reduction of terminal body hair to vellus or no hair.  While DHT is responsible for loss of scalp hair, the presence of DHT is required to maintain body hair. 

If you have a cool doctor and your are age appropriate you may want to ask for proscar, generic of course.  Both Propecia and Proscar are finesteride however Proscar is the 5mg version used to treat benign prostrate enlargement.  A cool doctor would write a script for the 5mg version and take as directed.  That way with a pill splitter a 30 day supply of the 5mg version would last 4 months.  Even if your gender marker had been offically changed it might still be possible to have insurance cover it since a prostate is still present but for ftm, questionable I bet. 

Yes I do hair for a living.

Thank you for that more detailed response. I highly appreciate a more indepth look into the subject at hand . My internet is very limited now so I can't really do as much research, but just to help educate a little some wikipedia links!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutasteride

Finisteride: 

Biological half-life   5–6 hours

It inhibits two of the three forms of 5α-reductase and can decrease DHT levels in the blood by up to 70%.

"Unlike triple inhibitors of all three isoenzymes of 5α-reductase like dutasteride which can reduce DHT levels in the entire body by more than 99%,[11] finasteride does not completely suppress DHT production because it lacks significant inhibitory effects on the 5α-reductase type I isoenzyme, with more than 100-fold less inhibitory potency for type I as compared to type II (IC50 = 313 nM and 11 nM, respectively)."

Dutasteride:

Biological half-life   4–5 weeks

It inhibits all three forms of 5α-reductase and can decrease DHT levels in the blood by up to 98%

"It has been found in several studies to improve hair growth in men more rapidly and to a greater extent than 2.5 mg/day finasteride.[6] The superior effectiveness of dutasteride relative to finasteride for this indication is considered to be related to the fact that the inhibition of 5α-reductase and consequent prevention of scalp DHT production is more complete with dutasteride"

"In a study of 89 women with hyperandrogenism due to persistent adrenarche syndrome, finasteride produced a 93% reduction in facial hirsutism and a 73% reduction in bodily hirsutism after 2 years of treatment.[3] "

"Dutasteride has an extremely long terminal or elimination half-life of about 4 or 5 weeks."

I just want long hair halfway down to my elbows and I think I'm just paranoid. Being almost blonde gives me really thick hair but the edges are not as thick as they used to be.

Quote from: Lexi Nexi on January 12, 2018, 12:19:54 AM
I just want long hair halfway down to my elbows and I think I'm just paranoid. Being almost blonde gives me really thick hair but the edges are not as thick as they used to be.

That might also be, likely, part of the aging process I hate to say it. I hate seeing it happening on myself, but it could be. That is just how it is. However, the good thing is that it is a long process... so enjoy what you have now . I sure hope I will! Time goes by so fast