Hello all,

I am just curious, but has anyone ever stated to someone, or multiple people, that they are male and also pointed out that they are a feminized male? As opposed to saying the more widely herd "I am female" or "I identify as female" / "I am male on the outside, but inside I know I am a woman", etc, etc, and so on.  Essentially, like, stating that one is male, making it a point, but also stating that one wants to have, and has, the full feminization effect of hormones at all levels, physical, mental, spiritual. Basically making a point that even though you are feminized you are still a man! And this feels right. Even tough you are quite cute, wear frilly dresses, and can pass as female.

Serious question btw!

I think that flies in the face of the mtf transsexual definition a bit (just mentioning since it's the board the thread is posted in), but is certainly something people who are non-binary or (extremely) non conforming have done. (Not including other non-western cultural views of the issue or potential non-English linguistical differences in which "male" and "female" may not have the same connotation.)

Some students who I teach sometimes comment that, despite my feminine appearance, I am very aggressive. My little daughter is also very aggressive, which makes my friends surprise.

Yes. Of course, everybody is unique, and you do not need to try to fit yourself into any category.

barbie~~

I only ask because I did hear this once from a mtf transgender person who was fully passable. I thought it was an interesting thought and sort of felt it was a little accurate. I sort of feel like that sometimes even though I have been told that I am very passable. Though admittedly I have felt since early child hood that I was like a girl and that I should have been a girl when born. Too bad things don't work out the way you think they should. I guess that this is a very hot topic ? Is it rather insulting to mtf trans? Why is that? Does it, like, violate or insult the transitioning spirit? Not sure just trying to figure it out. I know gals spent a lot of time and energy trying to pass and not everyone can hit that 100% mark which can be quite distressing.

Fort me personally as self described mtf transsexual, I'm not insulted at all. But I'm not particularly sensitive about that sort of thing to begin with, and am not big on political correctness. My only issue would be a purely literal definition one, and while all of this is self imposed labels anyway, strictly speaking anyone who says "I'm a feminized male" does not line up with the traditional view of being transsexual. (Focusing on that a bit since it's the mtf board.)

Having said that, I can understand where some may find the idea insulting even if I personally don't. There is a not entirely unfounded worry that things like this may provide ammo for the anti-trans crowd, who say we are all just crazy people who are medically altering our bodies but it is impossible to "change" our gender or sex. If someone says they are a feminized male, they play into that narrative in a sense. But at the same time, they have the right to identify however they want in my mind, and just because others may abuse that identification for their own purposes doesn't take that right away.

(Also, I should say I am restricting myself to discussing this in regards to someone who identifies as male but presents in an extremely non conforming way rather than dealing with the non-binary identifications, as I feel like that is more what you meant.)

I would never say that because that's not what I am. I'm not a feminized male. I'm a female born with an incorrect body that I am now correcting.

Quote from: Julia1996 on January 12, 2018, 08:15:59 AM
I would never say that because that's not what I am. I'm not a feminized male. I'm a female born with an incorrect body that I am now correcting.

Same here.  Correcting a birth defect if you will.

I'm part male and sought to feminize my body, if that's what you mean.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes, me too. When I was younger it was fairly easy to pass for "girl next door" pretty. Now it is very obvious that I am Feminized Male. I do enjoy my male parts, everything still works. I do enjoy it when my wife gives me to others, male or female. She likes to show me off and show how she can get me to perform unconventional acts.

If we were all alike, this would be such a boring world!

Pete Burns achieved a very feminine appearance via makeup and then through plastic surgery without identifying as a woman.

Quote from: Julia1996 on January 12, 2018, 01:55:26 PM

Quote from: p on January 12, 2018, 01:49:45 PM
Pete Burns achieved a very feminine appearance via makeup and then through plastic surgery without identifying as a woman.

I had to google Pete burns. OMG! I've never seen anything like that! He doesn't look human. Those lips.........why??!!

Stop that. Using this support site to launch on people is unacceptable.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 12, 2018, 01:57:52 PM
I had to google Pete burns. OMG! I've never seen anything like that! He doesn't look human. Those lips.........why??!!


Stop that. Using this seupport site to launch on people is unacceptable.

I'm sorry. That picture just freaked me out. I went back and looked at some of his older pictures and he was pretty in some of them.

There was a time in my life that femme boy fit and I enjoyed it.  I was fighting the trans beast back then as well and this was a kind of compromise.  The beast doesn't like compromises though.  At least mine doesn't.  More fighting till throwing in the towel for transition.  "no more fighting" is my mantra now.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on January 12, 2018, 08:48:41 AM
Same here.  Correcting a birth defect if you will.

Isn't calling it a birth defect a little strong? The way I see it is that the fetus is capable of growing both gender associated sexual structures and also associated intricate organ and brain structures of both sexes. This is a feature made to be there from the start and so it is 'intended' to be there and so capable and also true and correct in the sense that it is not an error (Because it is there to be). This is also interesting in that males regress the female structure for reproduction based on hormonal signaling and genetic expressing YET retains the mmamary capable organs (Or glands?) through out it's life. I feel that if this was not meant to be there then it would simply not be there and instead of the human fetus/body being a mold for both genders (Both have the abilities to growth both structures) then it would have been made to be strictly a male mold or strictly a female mold. Yet it is not!

So I feel that because the body is capable of being both genders that maybe acceptance of our unique double abilities is a good thing.

I think that just a lot of this is lost within society and culture which is interesting because it has to do with the human condition and mental thought process and also the ego self. If we look at it at a more scientific level, yes!, it is a diviation, but because the capability of it being is there then it cannot be an error or a mistake... it is intended!!!

And so because the ability to be both genders is there then it is not an error in my opinion. This also includes the mentally to shift from male to female (Like when some MTF fail and go back to male, and sometimes come back, etc). and behaviours like these are also seen in nature in that some animals can shift from male to female and back.

By itself the fuction is fine, but when we introduce the ego self, culture, and society and complex mental process (Which likely is also intended and thus it is) then we get what we now have.

But it is nice that acceptance is becoming more wide spread

QuoteI'm part male and sought to feminize my body, if that's what you mean.

Yes! This is what I mean and this is how I feel. After I started HRT I became part male essentially because now I am also part female and quite happy about that.

QuoteYes, me too. When I was younger it was fairly easy to pass for "girl next door" pretty. Now it is very obvious that I am Feminized Male. I do enjoy my male parts, everything still works. I do enjoy it when my wife gives me to others, male or female. She likes to show me off and show how she can get me to perform unconventional acts.

If we were all alike, this would be such a boring world!

It is nice to see that you found someone as accepting and loving as your wife is. Truly you are lucky! . Are you 100% passable? Do people ever guess you are a feminized male? Or do they just think female unless you let them know otherwise? I wanted to see how many people would still retain that male persona even though on the outside no one would ever guess that they are male.

QuotePete Burns achieved a very feminine appearance via makeup and then through plastic surgery without identifying as a woman

No HRT?

QuoteThere was a time in my life that femme boy fit and I enjoyed it.  I was fighting the trans beast back then as well and this was a kind of compromise.  The beast doesn't like compromises though.  At least mine doesn't.  More fighting till throwing in the towel for transition.  "no more fighting" is my mantra now.

That is interesting. I can relate as I've had episode of denials too , but I feel, like, that I have realized that, really, I am not a regular male, but that I feel that I am female and want to be. I don't like male clothes, but I love female clothes. It is just tough to accept the reality in that I am also male, but like I mentioned before... I think all is just intended and so I am. So, I feel like I should love my selves, both myself! No need for rejection. I hope that strengthens me. Two are better than one, right? Like a big friendship?

I don't believe Burns had HRT but only he would know for sure.

I wouldn't say I'm a man because I don't feel like one, even if like dressing and looking like a man sometimes (a very, feminine and delicate one). I sometimes don't even like stating that I'm a woman.

Quote from: Asakawa on January 12, 2018, 02:32:22 PM
So I feel that because the body is capable of being both genders that maybe acceptance of our unique double abilities is a good thing.

This goes back to the non-binary (or non conforming) versus transsexual definition itself though. For many (not all, but many) transsexual men and women, the physical body of the gender assigned at birth is a mistake, regardless of how fetal development works. When the time came for that binary switch to be flipped, it went the wrong way. In that sense, it is seen as a birth defect, a very literal one.

Most (I'm not sure if by definition all or not) mtf transsexual identifying people such as myself and Julia, have very binary views of ourselves, which through the nature of transgender self identification does tend to preclude any acceptance of a two gender state(non-binary/two-spirit/etc.), and does not consider existing in that state to be a good thing (for us, not in general, as for some it is a very good thing) as it does undermine our binary identification. (Though I typically don't say birth defect myself, and generally try to avoid overthinking the issue, instead focusing on what I want to be not what I was/am. Which is one of the reasons I'm fine for now with people still using male pronouns and what not without it causing any real dysphoria.)

Quote from: p on January 12, 2018, 02:52:50 PM
I don't believe Burns had HRT but only he would know for sure.

He looked so much like a girl before and after surgery. I read the wikipedia page and he said he thought it was scary (Or crazy?) that people thought he looked like a woman. Yet, I see him earing skirts and purses. That is pretty interesting! Sounded like he had a really secluded childhood and spent a lot of time with his mother (Like me!).

QuoteI wouldn't say I'm a man because I don't feel like one, even if like dressing and looking like a man sometimes (a very, feminine and delicate one). I sometimes don't even like stating that I'm a woman.

I feel the same way. Like, how can I really say that I am a man when, really, I don't feel like a regular man. I don't think a man, man, man would want to be a woman. So it all can be quite difficult. We are our own special group .

So, Roll after stating all of that what do you want to be???

Quote from: Julia1996 on January 12, 2018, 08:15:59 AM
I would never say that because that's not what I am. I'm not a feminized male. I'm a female born with an incorrect body that I am now correcting.

Well quite literally there is nothing male in me, other than my questionable chromosomal status. Rest of me is either ambiguous or female.   So nope.  Not a feminized male, not one bit  

Quote from: Asakawa on January 12, 2018, 02:32:22 PM
Isn't calling it a birth defect a little strong?

In my opinion the term birth defect describes my situation perfectly. I'm quite deep into the female end of the spectrum and never wanted the equipment I was issued.

That doesn't mean you can't be ok with what you see yourself as. People are different and some people like being a bit of everything, I'm just not one of those people.