Quote from: Nero on March 01, 2008, 07:57:01 AM

Quote from: Renate on February 20, 2008, 08:51:09 PM
Jealous?  Not me!

I'll have much nicer breasts at 50 (in 6 months) than you'll have at 50 (in 29 years!) 

Besides, I planned this all out.  I'll live to 100, the first 50 years as a man, the last 50 years as a woman.

Renate

Quote from: Nichole on February 20, 2008, 09:19:28 PM
Lia, I'm not 21 nor am I jealous. Nor, do I subscribe to this "No matter what age you transition at, you miss what you've missed."

If I have lived my life as best I could at any one time, then I shouldn't have 'missed' anything. Just my pov.

Nichole

I'd have to agree with both of you.

If I had transitioned in my teens, there are a lot of things I wouldn't have had - the ability to embrace my boyfriend and hold hands walking the halls comes to my mind as well as many other things.
I wouldn't give up my 20s for the world. They were a blast (well cept the last few years were hell, having nothing to do with gender though).
And now at age 29 and beyond, I get to live as a man (provided my health keeps improving).

So, I really don't feel as though I missed out by not transitioning earlier. And I love what Renate said about - '50 years as a man, 50 years as a woman'. Really, what could possibly be more romantic than to have experienced life as both sexes?

Do I value my 27-odd years as a guy - yeah, I suppose. Those years shaped me and made me into the person I am today. If not for those hardships and trials, I would most likely be as shallow and self-absorbed as a saucer of milk.

That said, life would have been much more pleasant had I had the opportunity to transition at, say eight.

Quote from: genovais on February 20, 2008, 07:26:47 PM
... you're always kind of jealous of those who got more than you did.  People who transition at 50 can't help but be jealous of those who got to spend their 30s in the right gender, and people who transition at 30 can't help but be jealous of transitioners who got to live their 20s.  In my case, I'm a 21-year-old transitioner; people looking at me naturally wish that they had figured it out at my age and transitioned.  On the other hand, even I am jealous at those who got to spend their teen years in the proper gender, go to prom, have a high school boyfriend, etc.  No matter what age you transition at, you miss what you've missed.

...every transperson feels, to a certain extent, how you feel.  I think.

Lia

I agree, and it is nice to hear this from another TS.  I began living full-time at age 24, I'm 27 now, and every day I live pre-op is filled with at least some resentment toward the girls who were born female.  Some days there is a lot of resentment.  This is one of my greatest struggles, not missing all the things like high school, the prom as a girl, sleepovers, childhood boyfriends, etc.  It's a daily struggle.  Unless you transition at 12 years old, I can't imagine people never having any of these feelings.

I see transitioning at a younger age versus later in life as having two equal downsides.  When you are young you most likely don't have as much to tie you down, and what you do have you are much more willing to give up.  BUT, you are typically not established, and most often struggle for years to actually achieve the finances to pay for surgery.  (Of course, there are some whose parents pay for it.)  Older transitioners more often have the financial resources, but are so deep-seeded that is equally as hard to fully transition.

Just my .02 cents.

Amy

I think like the last four or five posts pretty much sums it up nicely...

Quote from: mara on March 01, 2008, 03:29:51 PM
I think like the last four or five posts pretty much sums it up nicely...

I agree.  Especially the daily struggle part.  And the part about how shallow I would have been. And the part about........




I can't tell you folks what you'll find on the other side, but for me.... life is so much easier now that I'm comfortable in my own skin. 

Quote from: lady amarant on March 01, 2008, 09:03:37 AM

Do I value my 27-odd years as a guy - yeah, I suppose. Those years shaped me and made me into the person I am today. If not for those hardships and trials, I would most likely be as shallow and self-absorbed as a saucer of milk.

That said, life would have been much more pleasant had I had the opportunity to transition at, say eight.

I suppose I wasn't in either camp. I didn't transition young but at the same time I wasn't living as a male either. I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria at 24 but I didn't start transitioning. I would take hormones and continued to live a fairly feminine lifestyle quite comfortably and at first thought it best to not change anything, so for a while I didn't take it further. It was another 14 years later before I broke down and couldn't take any more and had to take it further... 

Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 01, 2008, 02:10:41 AM
I'm really glad to see this subject come up although I am saddened by the fact that Louise is feeling so hopeless.  I know that there are vast numbers who are in a similar situation.  We have many new members sign up here in the forums every day.  But few ever post.

These are lonely souls trying in some way to find a way for them self and are never quite able to do so for one reason or another.  Believe me... I know that they have a terrible time with this dilemma.

Louise, I understand your frustration.  I know how lost and hopeless you feel.  I will split with many here and suggest that your chosen course of action may be the correct one.  Only you can make that choice.  At this point in your life, you might be right to carry on with your commitments as husband and father.

But know this.  No matter what happens, there are always people out here in the ether willing to provide a virtual shoulder for you.  This forum is such a place.  If you get feeling down, this is a wonderful venue to vent your frustrations and explore solutions.  Not everyone will or can transition.  It just isn't meant to be.  Some of us can break the bonds and some can't.  No single path is ultimately the best choice for all.

Take heart and be happy.  Don't beat yourself up.  You are a good person.

Cindi

Thank you Cindi, and thank you Berleigh for your understanding posts
xx Louise

Hello to all you young people. I am 74 years old and have been on HRT for 2 years. I decided not to transition while my wife was alive although it was difficult at times. Fortunately my health has been excellent and I continue to walk 8 kms three times a week so I keep reasonably fit at about 174 pounds. I am happy with my progress and a big weight has been lifted off my mind. I have not yet told my family orf my intentions. Unfortunately I may be a bit old to go all the way.

Welcome to Susan's Joanne! Make yourself at home, browse, and post an introduction sometime when you have a chance.

Zythyra

People who are not TS have daily struggles too.  Some are much worse than anything you will ever face.  They keep on.  Most of us have no choice but to keep on.  The other options sucks.

Quote from: Hypatia on March 01, 2008, 12:44:29 AM

Louise, you're on the right track when your aim is to be honest with yourself and live your truth. But you're mature enough to know that your understanding of that truth and how to engage with it may change over time. If your dysphoria grows too unbearable and you change your mind back again, we will not deride you for it. We understand how hard the dilemma is, we've been there. Ask those who have changed their minds back and forth about it over and over before finally committing. Just keep being honest with yourself is all I can advise you. The truth will set you free.

Louise, if you're still worried about the ridicule and shame you suffered for it when young, well, you're not in the same boat at all any more. I suggest letting go of that past because it's gone and cannot harm you now. However you deal with it now, please let it be in the here and now. Mature people can't be intimidated any more like when we were kids. By getting this far we've grown a spine and learned how to live from our inner motivations instead of conforming to the crowd. Anyway that's what maturity means to me.

If you find it a struggle, then a good gender identity therapist can help get this terrible dilemma sorted out to facilitate you making your own decisions.

Yes I've had some counselling over my issues. Maybe I could handle any ridicule addressed directly to me, but my more important concerns are for my wife and other relatives - we live in a small community and my family is locally well known and respected. My transition would be the talk of the place for years, probably until well after I'm dead and gone. My family would suffer ridicule and pity, just so I could become an old lady. I would only be remembered for one thing - that I changed sex at 60 years of age - I would not just be famous, I would be considered infamous round here. So I am once again left to ponder, am I really so unhappy having a male body that I have to change it now, after all these years. Had I been born in the 1980s instead of the 1940s, yes I would jump at the chance to transition into a lovely young woman, but if I continue to transition now in a very few years time I will be an ugly geriatric transsexual woman. And that prospect does not thrill me.

As an aside, I have been finding it very difficult to come off estrogen. The trouble is that in addition to the more obvious physical effects (small though they are) the estrogen is giving me a "feelgood factor" that my body seems reluctant to let go of. In other words, I'm kind of hooked on it.
L.

Quote from: louise000 on March 05, 2008, 03:06:02 AMHad I been born in the 1980s instead of the 1940s, yes I would jump at the chance to transition into a lovely young woman, but if I continue to transition now in a very few years time I will be an ugly geriatric transsexual woman. And that prospect does not thrill me.

It's this way of looking at it which suggests you might not be fully TS after all. Because being a woman isn't about that. So I wish you well in arriving at a solution that does suit your actual needs.

Quote from: Hypatia on March 05, 2008, 11:33:03 AM

Quote from: louise000 on March 05, 2008, 03:06:02 AMHad I been born in the 1980s instead of the 1940s, yes I would jump at the chance to transition into a lovely young woman, but if I continue to transition now in a very few years time I will be an ugly geriatric transsexual woman. And that prospect does not thrill me.

It's this way of looking at it which suggests you might not be fully TS after all. Because being a woman isn't about that. So I wish you well in arriving at a solution that does suit your actual needs.

Amen.

Being a woman is not about being some 'hot young thing'. If all you would want out of transition is to be a young hottie, it's not for you. I mean absolutely no offense or judgement by this, as I do not know you, but only wanting to be female for that 'hot young babe' factor is a very male view of womanhood. If one is a woman, womanhood is part of her identity, it's who she is regardless if she is 20 or 80.

Quote from: louise000 on March 05, 2008, 03:06:02 AM
As an aside, I have been finding it very difficult to come off estrogen. The trouble is that in addition to the more obvious physical effects (small though they are) the estrogen is giving me a "feelgood factor" that my body seems reluctant to let go of. In other words, I'm kind of hooked on it.
L.

Why not stay on HRT? If it helps and makes you feel better...I know a one person who hasn't transitioned and has been on HRT for many years. They live and work as a guy and no one notices anything because there is nothing to notice..

Quote from: Nero on March 05, 2008, 11:57:36 AM

Quote from: Hypatia on March 05, 2008, 11:33:03 AM

Quote from: louise000 on March 05, 2008, 03:06:02 AMHad I been born in the 1980s instead of the 1940s, yes I would jump at the chance to transition into a lovely young woman, but if I continue to transition now in a very few years time I will be an ugly geriatric transsexual woman. And that prospect does not thrill me.

It's this way of looking at it which suggests you might not be fully TS after all. Because being a woman isn't about that. So I wish you well in arriving at a solution that does suit your actual needs.

Amen.

Being a woman is not about being some 'hot young thing'. If all you would want out of transition is to be a young hottie, it's not for you. I mean absolutely no offense or judgement by this, as I do not know you, but only wanting to be female for that 'hot young babe' factor is a very male view of womanhood. If one is a woman, womanhood is part of her identity, it's who she is regardless if she is 20 or 80.

Excuse me but I think you've both got it wrong about me. I didn't want to be anyone's "hot young babe" or "hot young thing". Yes I always wanted to be pretty and wear nice feminine clothes, but what I was trying to say was that I have now missed out on any chance to be pretty - I'm too old and male looking for that now. I will always be what I am inside, but if I transition the chances of matching my outward appearance to the person within are not good, and I don't want to end up looking like a freak. I'm just trying to be honest about this, there's no point in kidding myself I'll ever be truly passable as a woman. So I must continue to get through life as I always have - the actor that the world sees, the real me safe inside out of sight. That way nobody else gets hurt.

And thanks Kimberleigh for your advice as well, which is always based on common sense
L.

Quote from: louise000 on March 06, 2008, 03:43:35 AMthere's no point in kidding myself I'll ever be truly passable as a woman.

Have a care. There's no way for you to know that in advance. Ask those of us (me, for example) who despaired we'd ever pass... and then after a while... what do you know, surprise! We're passing amazingly well. You really cannot know in advance, until after you've taken HRT long enough while walking the walk. 'Course, we don't know what you look like to start with, and that has to be taken into consideration.

All I can tell you is, I failed miserably for the first two and a half years, then something clicked and I started enjoying success at passing. About a year and a half after I began HRT, I was able to go fulltime woman, and since then I've been called "Ma'am" by the public 100% of the time and been accepted by other women as one of them in all-women spaces. Today, I'm invited to give a talk at a luncheon of a women's group. I don't think any of them know I'm trans. I'm happier than ever now... but I had to go through a period of suffering before I got here. YMMV.

You know, they say passability becomes easier in old people, because old men and old women start to look more like each other after the natural hormones decrease.

Quote from: louise000 on March 06, 2008, 03:43:35 AM

Quote from: Nero on March 05, 2008, 11:57:36 AM

Quote from: Hypatia on March 05, 2008, 11:33:03 AM

Quote from: louise000 on March 05, 2008, 03:06:02 AMHad I been born in the 1980s instead of the 1940s, yes I would jump at the chance to transition into a lovely young woman, but if I continue to transition now in a very few years time I will be an ugly geriatric transsexual woman. And that prospect does not thrill me.

It's this way of looking at it which suggests you might not be fully TS after all. Because being a woman isn't about that. So I wish you well in arriving at a solution that does suit your actual needs.

Amen.

Being a woman is not about being some 'hot young thing'. If all you would want out of transition is to be a young hottie, it's not for you. I mean absolutely no offense or judgement by this, as I do not know you, but only wanting to be female for that 'hot young babe' factor is a very male view of womanhood. If one is a woman, womanhood is part of her identity, it's who she is regardless if she is 20 or 80.

Excuse me but I think you've both got it wrong about me. I didn't want to be anyone's "hot young babe" or "hot young thing". Yes I always wanted to be pretty and wear nice feminine clothes, but what I was trying to say was that I have now missed out on any chance to be pretty - I'm too old and male looking for that now. I will always be what I am inside, but if I transition the chances of matching my outward appearance to the person within are not good, and I don't want to end up looking like a freak. I'm just trying to be honest about this, there's no point in kidding myself I'll ever be truly passable as a woman. So I must continue to get through life as I always have - the actor that the world sees, the real me safe inside out of sight. That way nobody else gets hurt.

And thanks Kimberleigh for your advice as well, which is always based on common sense
L.

Oh well passability is another issue then. But as Hypatia said, there is no way to know. There are young women who can't pass without FFS and mtaure ladies who can pass on HRT alone. Maybe you're one of them.

Quote from: louise000 on March 06, 2008, 03:43:35 AM
So I must continue to get through life as I always have - the actor that the world sees, the real me safe inside out of sight. That way nobody else gets hurt.

Except you

EVERYONE says "I"ll never pass!" in the beginning. Well, almost everyone anyway. But like Hypatia says, HRT can do wonders. Not always, not with everyone, but it CAN. And if all else fails, there's always facial surgery.

On the other hand, I think we tend to become absolutely OBSESSED over passing, and "being a freak," when we're still contemplating a transition - and in the early stages of one. After awhile, you honestly start to relax a bit about it. Not passing on occasion does NOT mean you're a "freak." It just means someone realized you were born male. That's it. You're still a woman, still you - just with an unusual legacy.

I don't think people generally care once you cross a certain threshold, and fit their expectations Good Enough.

~Kate~

Thanks everyone. You've all given me lots to think about and it's good to see things from so many different perspectives.
LOUISE

Louise, you have been not only honest but you have looked at things correctly with wisdom and a complete overview of the situation.

It's hard to transition at any age and I thought I was prime material when I first started because of my height (not very tall), bone structure (quite small) but then you take HRT for years and find the changes are very little if any.

You could still take HRT, maybe wear your hair how you want and live within the bounderies of a artistic male persona. This way you can work within the bounderies of your family. I have known quite a few people who have been rejected by their families and friends and you have to know it's right for you only you should make those choices...