I agree the numbers of murders may not seam large but they were killed because they are trans. How many murders in 2016 were because someone is male or female or white or black?

I someone was murdered because of skin color the FBI would be involved.

In 2005, Jews were more the targets of hate crimes, in 2014, LGBT's were,

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/16/us/hate-crimes-against-lgbt.html

Here's the final fact on the matter:

Everyone DIES, but how do you want to LIVE?

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Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:

Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?

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Duh, trying to think of a song to quote in response.  So far, only the good die young but then I'm not bad

Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:

Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?

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Quote from: rmaddy on January 28, 2018, 03:34:06 PM
Each of these things is far more likely than being murdered, even for us.

Exactly! 😀

When I talk with people about surfing they often ask... aren't you scared about shark attack? ... The answer is no!.. If you worry about that statically low occurrence, you will never enjoy your time in the water...

My old next door neighbor was the last person locally to be attacked by a great white and he was back out there with us as soon as he healed up... Living life...

I usually put it into dry land terms for them like... I bet you have walked in the woods despite there being bears out there somewhere and enjoyed the beauty of the forest without fear...

Live your life... Enjoy the beauty of the world around you... Love yourself, Love others and allow them to Love you...Appreciate each day!

Onward we go!

Ashley 😀❤️🌻

     Thank you Ashley for putting it so well unless you are in an unusually dangerous place or situation there is more to deal with that will affect our lives if we let this keep us from living the haters have beaten us so lets go out there and LIVE life to the fullest it is how we will win

     bobbisue

Quote from: Cassi on January 28, 2018, 06:23:20 PM
Duh, trying to think of a song to quote in response.  So far, only the good die young but then I'm not bad

Here is the song you're looking for.

Neil Young
"My My, Hey Hey (Out Of The Blue)"

My my, hey hey
Rock and roll is here to stay
It's better to burn out
Than to fade away
My my, hey hey.

Out of the blue
and into the black
They give you this,
but you pay for that
And once you're gone,
you can never come back
When you're out of the blue
and into the black.

The king is gone
but he's not forgotten
This is the story
of a Johnny Rotten
It's better to burn out
than it is to rust
The king is gone
but he's not forgotten.

Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There's more to the picture
Than meets the eye.
Hey hey, my my.


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Quote from: tgirlamc on January 28, 2018, 06:51:00 PM
Exactly! [emoji3]

When I talk with people about surfing they often ask... aren't you scared about shark attack? ...

People would ask me a similar question about jumping out of airplanes.  But the fear was part of one hell of an adrenaline rush that just made you want to go back and do it again.



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Quote from: Deborah on January 28, 2018, 07:18:49 PM
People would ask me a similar question about jumping out of airplanes.  But the fear was part of one hell of an adrenaline rush that just made you want to go back and do it again.



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I have a local trans woman friend who is a jumpmaster!

Btw... good pick with the Neil Young!!! 😀

Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:

Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Neglecting that no that's not the final fact -- it may be so for you and that's fine ...

I've lived my life:

Achieving at a high level in 6 different professions, all stimulating and challenging

Working and playing outdoors including sailing, rock climbing, mountaineering, martial / energy arts, triathlon. Often solo in the backwoods I've learned to assess risk, be well prepared and careful and have in fact done fine when things didn't go according to plan.

Reinterpreted all of the above in the understanding of having been female and trans (because certainly some of the above originated in needing to prove myself as masculine long before I even knew what being trans was or that I was).

Here's what smart climbers who go out free-solo (no ropes) say: "the moment your brain tells you to *go for it* it's time to down climb". Risk assessment isn't something I blow off precisely because I've done a lot of stuff that people perceive as dangerous and you mitigate that with risk assessment and mitigation.

It's been well understood in the LGBT community for decades that we get bashed because we're visibly different and being or expressing something that doesn't fit into gender norms. I get that many people here didn't live through those times, however denying that there's risk is something I find extremely triggering.

These risks are a hell of a lot less than they were in the '50s, '60s or even the '90s and that's great and I'm right there wanted to see bashing become a thing of the past. I knew a trans woman who was murdered about 15 years ago and there's absolutely no question that the fact she was trans was the reason. Another death of a trans woman I didn't know but who was geographically close was caused when she'd been in an auto accident and when the EMT and police found she had a penis they refused her treatment and she bled out and died on the scene.

So yeah passing and safety are big things to me and not passing was an important element in not starting medical transition 15 years ago. It was the right decision, back then Drs still required we pass for treatment and that bar was virtually as far out of reach for me then as it is today.

Quote from: tgirlamc on January 28, 2018, 07:22:16 PM
I have a local trans woman friend who is a jumpmaster!

Btw... good pick with the Neil Young!!! 😀

Have my gold wings.  Still hate heights.

Quote from: Rachel on January 28, 2018, 06:03:36 PM
I agree the numbers of murders may not seam large but they were killed because they are trans. How many murders in 2016 were because someone is male or female or white or black?

I someone was murdered because of skin color the FBI would be involved.

I'm not sure that they were killed because they are trans though, at least not the majority of them. If you look at the list of murders, it was often done by domestic partners. Were trans related issues a stresser? It's impossible to say, but they mostly weren't hate crimes in the classic sense.

I think there are two sides to the statistic:

1) Murder rates overall are largely overstated per capita. There is almost no way around this, it simply isn't as fatal to be trans in the western world as we sometimes fear. However...

2) The per capita rate for trans women of color is, most likely, astronomical. (I say most likely as I have not ran the numbers, but considering the overwhelming majority of murders are trans women of color and people of color make up a smaller percentage to begin with, with probably a smaller proportion still of openly trans women, the extrapolation is that murder rate is going to jump far, far above the national average if it alone already puts us near the general population rate including Caucasian majorities.)

In either case though, I do go back to the first point in that it is exceedingly difficult to say it is because they were trans.

Moving beyond murder however, there are other considerations these stats do not address. I believe that, and admittedly this is entirely anecdotal, trans women are more likely to be targets of violence that falls short of murder in acts that are perpetuated by strangers, mirroring previous years mentality towards racial minorities or lesbian and gay cis individuals. (Ie: the classic bunch of guys in a pick up truck with a confederate flag hanging off the back drives by scenario.) The distinction here is the "by strangers" assumption, as most acts of violence are carried out by family and friends, or at least acquaintances. It is hard to imagine a bunch of drunk rednecks pull over in that same pick up truck scene and beat up some random white "cis hetero-looking" guy.

I know that where I am, even in southeast GA, I don't fear going outside dressed because of getting attacked. I fear going outside because of my own self image (and a desire I have to have a clear delineation in my life when I move later this year).

I live in Northern California about 30 miles east of San Francisco.

I've been assaulted twice since I went full time 16 months ago.

The first time was in a shopping mall, using the Women's Room. A woman started kicking the stall door and cursing at me. I fled, and she followed through several shops screaming at me until the mall cops got her.

The second time was while walking home from the grocery store. A large unpleasant person asked me if I was a <obscenity for gay male> repeatedly while blocking my path. I ran into the street and around him, which he found hilarious.  I had the pepper spray out and aimed when he caught up with me, and he backed off.

Both events were midday in public spaces, in areas normally considered quite safe.

Bad stuff can happen.


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Quote from: Michelle_P on January 28, 2018, 07:32:09 PM
I live in Northern California about 30 miles east of San Francisco.

I've been assaulted twice since I went full time 16 months ago.

The first time was in a shopping mall, using the Women's Room. A woman started kicking the stall door and cursing at me. I fled, and she followed through several shops screaming at me until the mall cops got her.

The second time was while walking home from the grocery store. A large unpleasant person asked me if I was a <obscenity for gay male> repeatedly while blocking my path. I ran into the street and around him, which he found hilarious.  I had the pepper spray out and aimed when he caught up with me, and he backed off.

Both events were midday in public spaces, in areas normally considered quite safe.

Bad stuff can happen.


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I'm so sorry to hear about your incidents.  Sadly, there are some sick people who feel that attacking someone that is not generally accepted will make them more important or noticed.  Sadly, most of these people have an IQ lower than a monkey.

Yesterday, when I was at the VA for my voice therapy, I needed to go to the restroom.  It had both male & female on it and was a single use room with a lock. 

Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave but don't leave me.
Look around and choose your own ground.

Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.

Run, rabbit run.
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig another one.

For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave.

Pink Floyd

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 28, 2018, 07:41:21 PM
Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave but don't leave me.
Look around and choose your own ground.

Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.

Run, rabbit run.
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig another one.

For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave.

Pink Floyd

Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

"For What It's Worth"

There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Now, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

Quote from: SadieBlake on January 28, 2018, 07:26:37 PM

Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:

Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?

...
Neglecting that no that's not the final fact -- it may be so for you and that's fine ...
...

Sadie, I don't know what books you've been reading, but yeah, death is pretty final. I hope you're not saying you're immortal! 

Hugs, Devlyn

I'm guessing that it was a faith reference, but that just makes it all that much harder for me to understand. The most religious people I know seem to live in incandescent terror of death.

That would belong in the Spirituaity forum. We're here to discuss why you Don't Fear The Reaper. 

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 28, 2018, 08:44:36 PM
That would belong in the Spirituaity forum. We're here to discuss why you Don't Fear The Reaper. 

Because seasons don't;
Nor do the wind the sun and the rain
We can be like they are