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Yes, Trans Women Can Get Monthly Period Symptoms

Started by ajtent, January 31, 2018, 03:00:09 PM

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ajtent

You never told me about this - Now that I am on HRT, I might get a monthly period?
Any thoughts on this?

https://theestablishment.co/yes-trans-women-can-get-period-symptoms-e43a43979e8c

Yes, Trans Women Can Get Period Symptoms

There's one thing cis and transgender people agree on—trans women and transfeminine people don't get periods.
Those of us who were assigned male at birth (AMAB) generally came out of the womb without ovaries or a reproductive system that can support a pregnancy, so we don't bleed every month in preparation for one. It's generally seen as one of the net positives about being a transgender woman as opposed to a cisgender gal; before and after I started transitioning, my cis girlfriends came to me with their tales of woe — bloating, cramps, violent mood swings, nausea — all sometimes too intense for them to reasonably get out of bed. "You're so lucky," they'd moan, and I would shrug sheepishly, implicitly agreeing that I was fortunate to never share in those experiences. That would be impossible. Right?
Imagine my shock, then, when I talked with my friend Ashley last month, just before she went into the hospital for a few weeks. Nervous about the length of time she would have to stay, she told me the reason for her reticence: "I'm due for my period in a couple days, and that's going to really suck."
Uh, what?
Ashley's a 23-year-old trans girl who's been on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for over a year. She takes a cocktail of the antiandrogen spironolactone and estradiol, a form of estrogen. About five months into her treatment, she began experiencing a predictable pattern of symptoms: First would come the soreness and swelling in her chest along with bouts of nausea; the next day, she'd endure painful abdominal cramping lasting minutes at a time, as well as constant nausea, hot flashes, dizziness, photosensitive migraines, and bloating. This cycle, she says, lasts for about six to seven days and repeats roughly every five weeks.
About five months into her HRT treatment, she began experiencing a predictable pattern of symptoms.
If those symptoms sound familiar, it's because billions of cis women all over the world experience similar symptoms while menstruating. Along with insomnia, general muscle fatigue, joint pain, acne, and a host of other side effects, all the afflictions Ashley reported are symptomatic of premenstrual syndrome (PMS) and/or premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). (Debilitating symptoms can be indicative of endometriosis and shouldn't be considered a natural part of menstruation for people with uteruses — folks, call your doctors!)
Intrigued by Ashley's disclosure, I put out a call online for trans women to get in touch with me if they had experienced regular symptoms like hers since they began HRT. It turns out, Ashley's not alone in her experiences — it's not impossible for me to develop a "period" after all.
The respondents to my question varied in age, length of time on HRT, dosage level, and administration method — while some trans people take their hormones in pill form, others choose to use patches or intramuscular injections — but they all reported similar results. Most seconded Ashley's accounts of pain and nausea and added that they experienced intense mood swings. One agender respondent, Blue, reported immobilizing cramps that were 30 seconds long, extreme mood swings and depressive episodes, and constant headaches — all beginning six months after starting HRT, and appearing regularly for the past five months.
Aspen, a 24-year-old trans girl, said that although she almost always felt nauseated in the morning, she'd recently experienced excruciating "morning sickness" for a nearly weeklong stretch before it abated — almost without a trace. Still another respondent, who requested to remain anonymous, said they had "a lot of really bad period ->-bleeped-<-s where it's practically explosive it's so horrible." (Menstrual diarrhea isn't as known or discussed as other symptoms, but it is definitely a thing — to nobody's relief.)
After speaking with about 10 diversely identified people who identified as having PMS-esque symptoms, I saw only one possible explanation: AMAB trans people can and do seem to experience period-like symptoms as a part of HRT. Just like cisgender women, our period experiences range from barely noticeable or almost nonexistent to debilitating. I haven't identified a hormonal cycle of my own, but it was clear that others had, and they weren't limited to feeling sad and wanting chocolate (though Ashley did wryly note that she "had to be talked out of putting chocolate syrup on [her] hot dog" during a recent cycle).
Scientifically, I was puzzled; were these symptoms strictly psychosomatic, driven by knowing feminization of these individuals' bodies? Or were they a direct result of the physiological effects of HRT, an awakening of latent femininity in AMAB bodies? After all, there's only one gene separating testicles from ovaries in adult humans, and all human embryos are primed to develop ovaries until a chain of genes on the Y chromosome get involved. Plus, animals of all kinds (like frogs and hawkfish) change sex frequently in response to environmental stimuli. I certainly didn't consider my informal surveys to be comparable to a clinical trial, but the anecdotal data I rounded up was strong.
In fact, I even heard from a cis woman whose mother was prescribed HRT after having her ovaries removed, and who experienced cyclical back pain, bloating, and frequent urination/defecation — "everything but the bleeding." "[My mother] actually has a healthier, regular cycle without most of her reproductive system than I do while still having mine," griped the respondent. Given the dearth of medical literature regarding the effects of HRT on transgender people, why wouldn't it be possible for AMAB people to experience something akin to a bloodless period? After all, side effects like bloating, cramping, nausea, and breast soreness are well-documented side effects of estrogen therapy. Is it such a stretch to believe that these effects could be experienced cyclically?
This is a phenomenon that clearly requires greater study — in all of my research on the topic, I couldn't find a single scientific examination of the matter. Perhaps part of the problem is that so few people know about it. The general cis population is understandably in the dark, because lots of trans people aren't aware of it as a broad phenomenon either. Though a few of my respondents had discussed their symptoms in private trans groups online, most had assumed they were the only ones who were getting their "periods."
There is one group with strong views on the matter, however. If you listen to trans-exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs), we actually can't experience period-like symptoms . . . because, well, we just can't. After I put out the call for interviewees on my Tumblr, the TERF brigade leapt all over my post and covered it in some of the most vicious, unprovoked vitriol I've ever seen — from accusations of sexism, to claims that those talking about this were "delusional" and "parasites," to outright threats ("i'll gladly help them if they want to bleed from their genitals once a month").
I was shocked and confused — I had gathered enough anecdotal evidence to suggest a truly fascinating hormonal phenomenon, but these people had no interest in challenging their preconceived notions of what was possible for transgender people (notions that, I'll reiterate, I used to share as well).
But then again, perhaps this shouldn't have come as such a surprise to me. Whether it's in a conversation with our medical providers, friends, or even immediate family, trans people — AMAB folks in particular — have historically been met with violent opposition when discussing their feelings and medical needs. We're often told we're exaggerating things, seeking attention or sympathy, and that our reality can't possibly be as we describe it. Sometimes these verbal assaults turn physical. When I asked how these attacks made them feel, Blue laid down some truth:
"I've always been terrified to mention [these symptoms] to anyone for the reason of feeling as though it wouldn't go over well with anyone . . . My neurodivergency alone makes me feel as though I have to slowly kill myself at school or work (when I was in either) in order to be accepted and acknowledged. I don't respond to criticism well at all, so I am horrified. It's an especially odd topic for someone like me, an agender individual, who dreams every night that they might wake up AFAB instead of AMAB, [but] doesn't really desire to relate to these symptoms in the end. It's sad that it might not be easy to find a safe way to ever have a discussion on them."
Trans people have historically been met with violent opposition when discussing their needs
On the other hand, Ashley said she tries to focus on the positive. Although her mother has accused her of exaggerating her symptoms in the past, and she's afraid to contradict those who say she's just "looking for attention," Ashley tries to educate those cis women who say she's "lucky" not to bleed. "Well, actually," she grins, "I don't have a uterus, but I have some of the downsides." At the end of the day, she's glad to have a little more solidarity with her trans siblings now that she knows some of them share her experiences: "It's good to know I'm not alone."
Hopefully, one of these days, the medical community will dive into the matter and confirm what Ashley already knows — that periods aren't just for vaginas anymore.
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Doreen

I think they should probably be more specific in exactly what symptoms they are describing (if they didn't already).  Bloating, achy boobs, irritable, crampy feelings?  Yup you can have all of those on HRT with or without a vagina.. with or without a uterus.  As a matter of fact some women that had hysterctomies still experience period like symptoms as well.  Your body doesn't always 'know' that its missing what was naturally there. 

Most of the trans (and intersexed) sciences are in their infancy.  There is much out there to be learned & discovered... if only doctors and others were willing to learn. 
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KayXo

A lot of those symptoms seem to me like a lack of estrogen...If our levels are stable and adequate, I personally don't see how transwomen could get PMS. Very doubtful and I remain skeptical.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Doreen

Quote from: KayXo on January 31, 2018, 03:30:08 PM
A lot of those symptoms seem to me like a lack of estrogen...If our levels are stable and adequate, I personally don't see how transwomen could get PMS. Very doubtful and I remain skeptical.

Keep in mind your adrenal glands do produce (as well as the mammary) some estrogen, so there will be natural fluctuations in the amount of estrogen produced.  Nothing like a cis born woman with fully functioning ovaries, of course.. but no matter what you do, you can experience fluctuations depending on what type of estrogen you are taking, how its administered (IM, PO, SL, patch, etc..), when taken, how long you've been on them, etc.  Nothing is 'perfect' in an imperfect world.
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KayXo

Quote from: Doreen on January 31, 2018, 03:33:24 PM
Keep in mind your adrenal glands do produce (as well as the mammary) some estrogen, so there will be natural fluctuations in the amount of estrogen produced.  Nothing like a cis born woman with fully functioning ovaries, of course.. but no matter what you do, you can experience fluctuations depending on what type of estrogen you are taking, how its administered (IM, PO, SL, patch, etc..), when taken, how long you've been on them, etc.  Nothing is 'perfect' in an imperfect world.

I agree there are fluctuations and this is why I personally don't see much use in testing hormone levels (though I'm not the expert) BUT in the overall picture, levels don't drop to the extent where you would start getting PMS as it happens in ciswomen and if they do, then I believe it's best to go see a doctor to try and change the schedule, perhaps take E more frequently if doctor agrees, hopefully!

If you keep taking E frequently enough, despite some fluctuation, PMS is unlikely, is basically what I'm saying...and thank goodness! :)
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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RobynTx

I don't know about symptoms per se but my wife lets me know when she thinks I'm having one. 


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Julia1996

Well I'm not going to say a transwoman can't have pms. It all has to do with hormone levels. But I wonder if it's just wishful thinking for transwomen who do experience pms symptoms. I have some symptoms that are similar to pms but they don't occur at aNY one specific time of month. I get in a bad mood and get bitchy anytime of the month. But that has less to do with any kind of pms and more to do with the people around me acting like boneheads and seriously annoying me. I do get symptoms toward the last of the month from my provera but that's just increased appetite and an increase in my sex drive. I don't ever get bloated and I never have any kind of cramps.
Julia


Born 1998
Started hrt 2015
SRS done 5/21/2018
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ajtent

Quote from: RobynTx on January 31, 2018, 04:08:52 PM
I don't know about symptoms per se but my wife lets me know when she thinks I'm having one.

RobinTx,
I love you - your wife sounds like fun.
AJ
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Doreen

Quote from: Julia1996 on January 31, 2018, 05:17:24 PM
Well I'm not going to say a transwoman can't have pms. It all has to do with hormone levels. But I wonder if it's just wishful thinking for transwomen who do experience pms symptoms. I have some symptoms that are similar to pms but they don't occur at aNY one specific time of month. I get in a bad mood and get bitchy anytime of the month. But that has less to do with any kind of pms and more to do with the people around me acting like boneheads and seriously annoying me. I do get symptoms toward the last of the month from my provera but that's just increased appetite and an increase in my sex drive. I don't ever get bloated and I never have any kind of cramps.

LOL I'm right there with ya girl.   Bitchiness knows no season :D  Ya there are times I'm more miserable and bloaty too.. I haven't really payed attention to my own bio symptoms or rhythms enough to give it any time line. 
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RobynTx

Quote from: ajtent on January 31, 2018, 05:31:02 PM
RobinTx,
I love you - your wife sounds like fun.
AJ

Wouldn't trade her for anything.  :D


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sarah1972

Yes. To the point where my wife comments: "Is it that time of the month again". Usually when she catches me with my hand in the pickle jar.

And usually when my 14 days of progesterone come to a end each month.

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