Yes I certainly have experienced both romantic attraction and envy of the female body.

I have never had much interest in sexual activity and am now asexual. However when younger it was occasionally women to whom I was attracted romantically never to men. But mainly I just wished and still wish to be close to women as friends or better still to be treated by women as a woman.

The main area of my dysphoria is a every day envy of the female body - face and curves and shapeliness.

I feel my envy is greater than my previous romantic attraction.

Hence I want my body to be corrected!

Pamela

😊 We are all so different. I think that is a good thing. I tried so hard to be with women so I could be normal and I just couldn't. I did wish when I was changing one way and girls were changing another, that I could change the way they did. When I told my family about my feelings it did not go over very well I am afraid. Then I tried to go out with my neighbor, who I wanted so much to be like, it was so weird. We had been friends for a two years and did everything together. We would lay on top of each other when we were sledding, sleep side by side on camp outs with their father in a tent or their basement in the winter, lay in her bed together listening to music, it all seemed right, normal. I could not kiss her even once though, I don't think she ever forgave me.

I think that I understand how some of you feel about men, it is probably the same way I am towards women.

In the 70s, before puberty... I. You know, I don't remember at all. I got tired of being made fun of so I tried to be like the other boys, I remember that. I also remember play experimenting with boys AND girls. I was not always the boy with the girls but I was never the boy with the boys, only the girl. I don't think anything can be read into that though, I was younger and they certainly weren't going to be the girl. Where does sexual attraction come from? I don't know. Some shrinks in the 80s suggested that my orientation was because of being molested, even when I was getting on hrt more recently they had the same concerns. Back then it was what made my grandmother finally take me out of the institution, 'He's always been this way you quack, way before then. Why am I wasting my money with you?' I don't know what about me changed their mind when I was going through the VA for hrt, 2 psychiatrists and 2 out of the 3 psychologists were completely against it at first. They didn't believe that transition was right for anyone, not just me, but they all changed. I remember sitting across from each of those men when it sunk in completely, the confusion on their faces. I was not like them, how it was possible they had no idea but I was not like them at all.

Went a little afield. 😁

I think that if one's attraction is towards women that it is not only possible but probable that the line between attraction and envy get garbled. If one's attraction is as of yet unknown it would be very hard to know the difference between the two. Possible why those of us who have only ever liked men have had less trouble separating the two.

I was always very envious of women but I honestly never had the slightest attraction to women. I find the idea if anything sexual with a female totally revolting. I really don't even like being touched by females. I've noticed a lot of girls and women are very affectionate with each other. That's one way I'm quite different from many women. I'm not at all affectionate with other females. If they get too physically close to me it annoys me and it's definitely an unwelcome invasion of my space. I had a friend who was very touchy/huggy and I finally told her to please stop touching me all the time.  I've always been very affectionate with males though. I really don't know why I'm like that. It could be because of my mom. When I was little she didn't want me in her space at all. If I tried to crawl into her lap she would shove me away from her and sometimes she would even smack me. Not too long ago she told me I was an extremely needy and clingy child and that I had been extremely annoying when I was little.

Equal parts warring with each other.


Seriously did a number on my dating life.

Quote from: Julia1996 on February 07, 2018, 12:20:11 PM
When I was little she didn't want me in her space at all. If I tried to crawl into her lap she would shove me away from her and sometimes she would even smack me. Not too long ago she told me I was an extremely needy and clingy child and that I had been extremely annoying when I was little.

Wow, that sounds horrible. You sound very well adjusted for all of that. Maybe me not having parents was a good thing, I turned out messed up enough.

Makes perfect sense and I can totally relate!  I am attracted only to women, with only a couple men that I have ever thought were kind of attractive.  Mostly......if it has a penis, I don't want anything to do with it.  ha ha.  I definitely do have some of a sexual attraction to women.....but the majority of my attraction to them is absolutely envy.  It was quite an interesting thing for me to finally recognize.  For years and years I would admire the shape of their bodies, and admire the clothes they wore and their beautiful soft faces and long hair and things.  And it didn't make any sense to me why the other "guys" around me were talking all sexual about them and objectifying them.  And I felt like I was super attracted to them as well, but it was always just an envious "I want to be them" kind of attraction.  So now that I am well into my transition and things, and I know what is going on, I am able to be more confident in my knowing that yes, looking at a woman does have some sexual element to it, but mostly it just turns me on to think of myself being them.  So the sexual feelings are not actually for "them".  They are just sexual feelings that get aroused when I think of myself BEING them.

I do think that may have some relevance. My first wife was beautiful and loved having sex. I was not all that much into it. But we did make a lot of memories over our seven years together. It was only after getting married that my gender confusion came to the forefront. The size of my penis has always been a cause for shame. It has always been in the background. My second wife, is not so beautiful, on the outside otherwise she is my rock and gorgeous on the inside. I think I was more into finding companionship than a sex life. Although we did have children, I was wasted the two times we conceived. I was self medicating after the death of my first marriage, my mother and my father and the fear I may have caused my mothers death. She had always talked of walking into traffic and the incident happened a week after she found me crossdressing in my motel room.Once the children were born I had found my "higher power" and quit all my bad habits cold turkey. I also got a vasectomy. But my confusion has always been there. Unfortunately at the time there were no answers to my questions. I think connecting with my current wife of 35 years was an acknowledgement that sex was not important. I do envy women for their ability to change their look. I envy women's ability to have babies. I appreciate woman's method of problem solving through consensus. I enjoy the attention pretty women get. Unfortunately the idea of anal sex makes me uneasy. Don't get me wrong if you enjoy it, go for it. and I can't get surgeries to make me more female. If I could do that I may be able to consider sex with men. God, I hope this makes sense as it's only taken a lifetime to finally open the closet door and acknowledge who was inside. I am thankful for the opportunity and especially thankful for having a forum to discuss the topic. I keep asking myself whatif this site and information was available in the seventies.

At the risk of seeming to butt in where I don't belong, I find this thread has sucked me in. Please forgive me if I am overstepping any boundaries.

When I first read this, as an SO, it seemed scary. Any of you with wives probably know one of our biggest fears is that our trans-spouses either realize their sexual attraction is not what they thought it was, or that hormones reveal a latent orientation, or that it changes altogether because of HRT. Those of us sticking with our spouses are doing so because they told us that no way are they going to change -- that they are certain of their orientation.

So initially, reading this, it is a little ominous to see that many trans people can be surprised by hidden feelings and attractions (or lack thereof) when they thought with so much certainty that they knew themselves.

BUT, I am wondering if I am not looking at it right. Maybe the envy feelings are just another level of attraction? I mean, do those of you with wives feel like any revelation about this puts your feelings for her into a different light? Or does it just add another layer to what you knew was there? Do envy and sexual attraction coexist for you or are they mutually exclusive? Are there some women you feel envy towards and some you are attracted to? The same women?

Quote from: FinallyMichelle on February 07, 2018, 11:27:15 AM
I think that if one's attraction is towards women that it is not only possible but probable that the line between attraction and envy get garbled. If one's attraction is as of yet unknown it would be very hard to know the difference between the two. Possible why those of us who have only ever liked men have had less trouble separating the two.

- I think this is probably right...

Maybe I shouldn't be asking these questions, but know that I am aware that everyone is different and that what anyone says here does not necessarily reflect the thoughts and feelings of MY spouse. And like Julie said, I get that you can be attracted to women and still have desires to be penetrated like a women. I am just trying to understand a mindset better that is truly foreign to me.

If anyone is curious, THIS CIS woman does not remember ever feeling any envy towards any man about appearances and very few towards women. Maybe for clear skin or a good sense of style. And while I can recognize that a woman is sexually attractive, I have not ever thought it strong enough that I wanted to be intimate with them (though I have kissed a few during parties in my younger days in SF but no tongue so pretty innocently).

Again, sorry if I am butting in, but I am fascinated by this discussion. Thanks for sharing

I think homophobia also plays a big part. I know it did for me.

I don't think it's all nature. There's a big nurture component here as well.

Quote from: gallinarosa on February 07, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
At the risk of seeming to butt in where I don't belong, I find this thread has sucked me in. Please forgive me if I am overstepping any boundaries.

When I first read this, as an SO, it seemed scary. Any of you with wives probably know one of our biggest fears is that our trans-spouses either realize their sexual attraction is not what they thought it was, or that hormones reveal a latent orientation, or that it changes altogether because of HRT. Those of us sticking with our spouses are doing so because they told us that no way are they going to change -- that they are certain of their orientation.

So initially, reading this, it is a little ominous to see that many trans people can be surprised by hidden feelings and attractions (or lack thereof) when they thought with so much certainty that they knew themselves.

BUT, I am wondering if I am not looking at it right. Maybe the envy feelings are just another level of attraction? I mean, do those of you with wives feel like any revelation about this puts your feelings for her into a different light? Or does it just add another layer to what you knew was there? Do envy and sexual attraction coexist for you or are they mutually exclusive? Are there some women you feel envy towards and some you are attracted to? The same women?
- I think this is probably right...

Maybe I shouldn't be asking these questions, but know that I am aware that everyone is different and that what anyone says here does not necessarily reflect the thoughts and feelings of MY spouse. And like Julie said, I get that you can be attracted to women and still have desires to be penetrated like a women. I am just trying to understand a mindset better that is truly foreign to me.

If anyone is curious, THIS CIS woman does not remember ever feeling any envy towards any man about appearances and very few towards women. Maybe for clear skin or a good sense of style. And while I can recognize that a woman is sexually attractive, I have not ever thought it strong enough that I wanted to be intimate with them (though I have kissed a few during parties in my younger days in SF but no tongue so pretty innocently).

Again, sorry if I am butting in, but I am fascinated by this discussion. Thanks for sharing

😊 Not sure about anyone else but I welcome you and your input. It's easy to see where it is relevant to you and your situation.

I won't say much here because your question is not directed at me or anyone with my orientation however, I did want to welcome you 😁 and give a little something that may ease your mind.

Yes we are all different and transition does change us, sometimes in ways that we didn't anticipate, but most of us are pretty set as we enter. Meaning, we kind of have a feel going in what our orientation CAN be as transition takes hold. Honestly, it doesn't change as much as you might think. Like, I don't know the actual number but I am pretty sure that the larger percentage of MtF prefer women after transition. Possibly bi being second, straight 3rd and asexual last. That is what I always see anyway. I have seen quite a few that their orientation DID change and they stayed with their wife. Some things are more important than sex I guess. 😊

I am glad that you can be understanding and work your way through what is tough for both of you. I really hope the best for you. 

I could have sworn that I posted in here, I can't find it.

Quote from: gallinarosa on February 07, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
At the risk of seeming to butt in where I don't belong, I find this thread has sucked me in. Please forgive me if I am overstepping any boundaries.

For me, your input is most welcome

Quote
When I first read this, as an SO, it seemed scary. Any of you with wives probably know one of our biggest fears is that our trans-spouses either realize their sexual attraction is not what they thought it was, or that hormones reveal a latent orientation, or that it changes altogether because of HRT. Those of us sticking with our spouses are doing so because they told us that no way are they going to change -- that they are certain of their orientation.

there's always the possibility of latent desires surfacing. It's as scary on our side as well. I, personally, don't have any inclination at all towards men. I can consider a man handsome, ugly, so-so, personality+-, etc. Attracted to ... nope. IF (big if) it occurs I hope it falls in line with my next comment.

Quote
BUT, I am wondering if I am not looking at it right. Maybe the envy feelings are just another level of attraction? I mean, do those of you with wives feel like any revelation about this puts your feelings for her into a different light? Or does it just add another layer to what you knew was there? Do envy and sexual attraction coexist for you or are they mutually exclusive? Are there some women you feel envy towards and some you are attracted to? The same women?

Not for me. I've seen women that I envy, attracted, no. Could I be? Yes, however, I am devoted to my wife and that truth stifles any further thoughts along that road. I will say, in regards to my wife, I am both envious and attracted. Does one amplify the other? I have no idea. If it does, that's OK by me.

Quote
Again, sorry if I am butting in, but I am fascinated by this discussion. Thanks for sharing

We need more SO input. I can't speak for others, however, you can butt right in on my topics or comments at any time - even to ask questions of your own. More information and viewpoints are better for everyone. IMO

I am both attracted to and envious of beautiful women.  Have been since the moment I first had these thoughts, and only ever AS a woman.  In a way I kind of wish I was attracted to men, it would make life a bit easier.. but nope its just not there for me.

I do not get being envious of women yet repelled by them at the same time, seems kind of incongruous... but I'm not one to judge.

Just my thoughts  

Quote from: Doreen on February 07, 2018, 05:44:36 PM
I am both attracted to and envious of beautiful women.  Have been since the moment I first had these thoughts, and only ever AS a woman.  In a way I kind of wish I was attracted to men, it would make life a bit easier.. but nope its just not there for me.

I do not get being envious of women yet repelled by them at the same time, seems kind of incongruous... but I'm not one to judge.

Just my thoughts

For me it's very simple. I am envious of some women. I'm envious of the fact they were born female and have a natural vagina and don't have to have one created by surgery that won't ever be as good as a biological vagina. Though I don't like children and don't want them I'm envious they can give birth. I'm repelled by the idea of sex or intimacy with a woman but I'm not repelled by woman in general. Though I will say I really don't have any female friends. Since I've transitioned I have found that a lot of women my age up to about 40 years old don't care for me at all. I'm sure it's not that I'm being outed as trans because people I don't know almost never can tell I'm trans. It's hard to describe how women react to me. It's not blatant rudeness, it's a kind of subtle hostility. I have no clue why. I'm always nice to everyone unless they give me a reason not to be.

Gallinarosa,  I don't find your input an intrusion at all. I enjoy hearing thoughts from SOs. We get so wrapped up in our transitions and worries we forget about how a SO is feeling. One thing to remember is that just because a woman has a desire for penetration that totally doesn't mean she wants to be with a man. Women use strap ons with each other and women also use them with their cis husbands. Because someone transitions doesn't mean their orientation will change. Obviously your SO loves you. If your SO does have SRS down the road and has the desire for penetration there isn't any reason you couldn't satisfy that need with a strap on. And forgive me if I'm being too personal.

Gallinarosa, please don't apologize for participating.  We need to hear from more SOs, and this thread especially is just crying out for your perspective.

Quote from: gallinarosa on February 07, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
BUT, I am wondering if I am not looking at it right. Maybe the envy feelings are just another level of attraction? I mean, do those of you with wives feel like any revelation about this puts your feelings for her into a different light? Or does it just add another layer to what you knew was there? Do envy and sexual attraction coexist for you or are they mutually exclusive? Are there some women you feel envy towards and some you are attracted to? The same women?

For me, envy is mostly about appearance,  Attraction is mostly about personality.  So I can be envious without being attracted and attracted without being envious.  I have really only felt both at once for one woman.  I married her.

Which brings up what Faith said:

Quote from: Faith on February 07, 2018, 05:32:10 PM
Could I be? Yes, however, I am devoted to my wife and that truth stifles any further thoughts along that road.

It hasn't happened to me yet, but I suppose it could, that I might be attracted to another woman.  But I feel passionately about committment; it is one of the "female" characteristics that convinced me that I really am who I am.  I would never have considered cheating on my wife before, but now that she has demonstrated her committment to me by sticking with me on this incredible journey, I feel that even stronger.  She has nothing to fear, ever, in that regard. 

Perhaps your spouse feels the same way.

Hi Gallinarosa I was pleased to see your input and I will explain for me. I have been in some missed up relationships all my life basically. I have cheated on all of my girlfriends with other woman and men. I have never been happy in any of my relationships as I had to try to pretend to be something I am not. I was trying to act like as much of a male as I really possibly could. The only reason I cheated with males was I could totally act female and that made me happy I could be me. I could never have enjoyable sex if I did not imagine my self as a female and the person I was with as a male. I know I basically lied to myself and everyone for years. I have always loved the way women looked and I wanted so much to look like them and be one. Now I just want to be happy with myself no more lies no more cheating to try to be someone I am not or to get what I am not getting. Yes there is one female that I love but things will not work out she said she could never be with another female as she is not attracted to female she still likes my personality but nothing would happen. I did fall in love with everything about her.  So that is my feeling

Quote from: Faith on February 07, 2018, 05:32:10 PM
I will say, in regards to my wife, I am both envious and attracted. Does one amplify the other? I have no idea. If it does, that's OK by me.

This is a great answer. I will say that many CIS wives I have spoken to have a knee-jerk reaction to feel hurt by the thought of their transwife envying them. But I think it is because the immediate fear is, "Do they ONLY envy me?" But it takes awhile sometimes to clarify that in your head. I think the other fear is about while you are having sex, wondering if your transwife is thinking about you and how much they love you, or are they thinking about being you. I'm not sure if it matters. Probably, for the CIS wife it matters if/when they are feeling insecure as it makes you feel more like a vehicle for desirous thoughts than the object of them. I don't know. It is all very complicated but at least at this point I find it fascinating instead of scary. I am now wondering if this is something lesbians have always dealt with? (This is one of those places where suddenly being in a lesbian relationship can be confusing for a straight girl.) I wonder if it would be too obnoxious to ask some of my friends ;-)

Quote from: Julia1996 on February 07, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
Since I've transitioned I have found that a lot of women my age up to about 40 years old don't care for me at all. I'm sure it's not that I'm being outed as trans because people I don't know almost never can tell I'm trans. It's hard to describe how women react to me. It's not blatant rudeness, it's a kind of subtle hostility. I have no clue why. I'm always nice to everyone unless they give me a reason not to be.

Julia, I cannot imagine why. We haven't met in person, but I love your posts. Maybe because I am over 40. Or maybe because all of my friends are sarcastic and witty and blunt. And no, that is not too personal.

Thank you all for being inclusive. It really is nice. And if my spouse reads this: I swear, dear, I am not freaking out. I am just uncontrollably curious. Hahaha!

Quote from: Julia1996 on February 07, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
... Though I will say I really don't have any female friends. Since I've transitioned I have found that a lot of women my age up to about 40 years old don't care for me at all. I'm sure it's not that I'm being outed as trans because people I don't know almost never can tell I'm trans. It's hard to describe how women react to me. It's not blatant rudeness, it's a kind of subtle hostility. I have no clue why. I'm always nice to everyone unless they give me a reason not to be...

Quick observation in here for you Julia. My sister-in-law faced this same issue quite frequently. I could see it happen and also could see why. The women felt threatened thus tried to excise her from their immediate circles. She did not do anything overt to cause it, she was just herself. She also tended the attract male attention without trying, most were unwanted and unsolicited. She couldn't understand it.

I am not saying that's the case with you. I'm just pointing out one similar scenario.

Hello LaRell

I couldn't agree more. You describe precisely how I feel and have always felt.

Hello Gallinarosa

You are very welcome. Always nice and worthwhile to see perspectives from the SO side.
Yes I see envy as another level of attraction; they coexist.

Hello FinallyMichelle

I agree with your statistical assumption. From reading so many posts over many months on Susan's. I have no doubt that most MtFs before and after transition are attracted by women; the older ones like me are probably asexual. Some are attracted by men or by both which is fine of course as we all different.
However it is extraordinary that 30 years ago, shrinks all seemed to think we must be attracted to men!

Pamela

Quote from: gallinarosa on February 07, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
At the risk of seeming to butt in where I don't belong, I find this thread has sucked me in. Please forgive me if I am overstepping any boundaries.

When I first read this, as an SO, it seemed scary. Any of you with wives probably know one of our biggest fears is that our trans-spouses either realize their sexual attraction is not what they thought it was, or that hormones reveal a latent orientation, or that it changes altogether because of HRT. Those of us sticking with our spouses are doing so because they told us that no way are they going to change -- that they are certain of their orientation.

So initially, reading this, it is a little ominous to see that many trans people can be surprised by hidden feelings and attractions (or lack thereof) when they thought with so much certainty that they knew themselves.

BUT, I am wondering if I am not looking at it right. Maybe the envy feelings are just another level of attraction? I mean, do those of you with wives feel like any revelation about this puts your feelings for her into a different light? Or does it just add another layer to what you knew was there? Do envy and sexual attraction coexist for you or are they mutually exclusive? Are there some women you feel envy towards and some you are attracted to? The same women?
- I think this is probably right...

Maybe I shouldn't be asking these questions, but know that I am aware that everyone is different and that what anyone says here does not necessarily reflect the thoughts and feelings of MY spouse. And like Julie said, I get that you can be attracted to women and still have desires to be penetrated like a women. I am just trying to understand a mindset better that is truly foreign to me.

If anyone is curious, THIS CIS woman does not remember ever feeling any envy towards any man about appearances and very few towards women. Maybe for clear skin or a good sense of style. And while I can recognize that a woman is sexually attractive, I have not ever thought it strong enough that I wanted to be intimate with them (though I have kissed a few during parties in my younger days in SF but no tongue so pretty innocently).

Again, sorry if I am butting in, but I am fascinated by this discussion. Thanks for sharing

As others have said, no need to apologize.  A lot of us would benefit from more SO input everywhere on this site. 

My wife also worries that I will become attracted to men, and since I do want GCS that I will be curious about it.  She also reads here about some whose orientation flipped during or after transition, which hasn't helped her.  I only want GCS in order to feel whole.

I said before that I'm not repulsed by men, but not at all attracted to them . I meant that in a general way, I still have some good friends that are male and did not run away or shun me when I came out to them. Sexually though, I don't want to be anywhere near a penis.

I can answer some of your questions but of course this is  my view and experience and may not apply to others.

Attraction and admiration can be somewhat if not mutually exclusive. 
Took a while to figure it out as younger me blurred the lines there and caused my wife  a lot of pain.  Partly because I was still hiding the "I want to be them" and partly because I wasn't totally aware of why I seemed drawn to certain women until I realized that I am trans.  I could not explain that while yes, I was looking, its beacuase I want to be them,  not be with them.  I didn't want to be them as in trade lives, I just wanted my body to look like theirs.

My admiration tended toward someone more similar to my body type, tall and blond or redhead and a more girly girl style.  My wife is shorter with dark hair and while feminine, certainly not a girly girl.  So while I was ( and still am) attracted to my wife, I really didn't envy her, other than for being a cis female.  ( I am talking my trans related envy only here; she is a kind, friendly,  and smart woman)

This has caused some issues now, since I haven't been able to make her see that just because I like to use make up and wear dresses and skirts, I don't need her too.
I totally understand why she may feel the  way she does.  Historically I made it seem like that's what I was attracted too and that's the style I lean towards as I transition.

I think you answered one part yourself.  You are a cis woman as you said, so you would not have the same type of envy that we are talking about here.

Quote from: FinallyMichelle on February 07, 2018, 04:10:53 PM
[emoji4] Not sure about anyone else but I welcome you and your input. It's easy to see where it is relevant to you and your situation.

I won't say much here because your question is not directed at me or anyone with my orientation however, I did want to welcome you [emoji16] and give a little something that may ease your mind.

Yes we are all different and transition does change us, sometimes in ways that we didn't anticipate, but most of us are pretty set as we enter. Meaning, we kind of have a feel going in what our orientation CAN be as transition takes hold. Honestly, it doesn't change as much as you might think. Like, I don't know the actual number but I am pretty sure that the larger percentage of MtF prefer women after transition. Possibly bi being second, straight 3rd and asexual last. That is what I always see anyway. I have seen quite a few that their orientation DID change and they stayed with their wife. Some things are more important than sex I guess. [emoji4]

I am glad that you can be understanding and work your way through what is tough for both of you. I really hope the best for you. 

I've noticed a similar split of attraction that you have, though I would add a couple of things. 

******The following is totally unscientific data based mostly on about 18 months of my observations reading posts here on Susan's. ********

Those that were attracted to men before transition tend to stay that way.

It also seems that the younger transitioners tend to follow the same percentages of straight-gay-bi-asexual-etc as the general population.

The older transitioners seem to be in three roughly equal groupings.  Lesbian identity (women only), straight identity (men only) with bisexual and asexual and all the rest in the last group. 



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

This is a very interesting topic.  For me, there were always certain aspects of women that I envied.  But I was also always sexually attracted to women, and still am.  The envy part encompassed things like fashion-sense, personality traits that I admired and desired, and to some degree physical aspects that I desired in myself.  It was never so much make-up, hair, or clothing.  Sure, I appreciate well done make applications that compliment looks, or what I see as nice hair, or flattering clothing.  But those were things to me - objects. 

My sexual desires never changed.  I know my spouse was very worried about that but I wasn't.  My sexual desire for or attraction to women is different now, but still just as strong.  It's gone from the usual hormone driven "I want it I want it" mode, to more of a warm, sensual, loving, "I wanna cuddle and caress and kiss" kind of desire.  While happy endings are still important, more for my spouse than me I believe, it's the intimacy with being with another woman - my loving wife, that rings my bells.

We both look at women and do the usual "she shouldn't wear that outfit" to "ooooo...I love that outfit...or purse...or shoes" kind of people watching.  Well, really woman watching.  LOL  And yes, we see some curvy beautiful figures and we both envy them.