I am a gay man who has started to realize that I really want to become a woman, but I only really want to change whats on the inside.  I feel that hormones and surgery would provide me with exactly what I need to be happy with myself, and all the other external changes do not seem necessary to me. I am comfortable dressing/acting like a man in public, its just that I dont feel like a man on the inside.  Showing the rest of the world that I am a woman does not matter to me, as I dont really care about most of the world, but I do care about how I feel about myself.  Emotionally and sexually, I feel far more feminine, and I do not think I would miss having a penis at all if I had a vagina instead.  I have never had much desire to crossdress, so I was always in denile of being transgender, but the more I think about it, I really do identify myself and my mindset as being more female than male.  I guess I am just a tomboy stuck in a gay boy's body.  I have even spoken to therapists and doctors who have experience with transgender patients, and they have never heard of anyone like this, so it seems like I am the only one who has ever felt this way.  I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this or ideas how I would even classify myself, as androgyne, transgender, or just none of the above.  I dont mind if I am the first person to ever feel that way, as fitting into any specific title or social group is not a concern of mine, I just wonder how rare this really is. 

I don't know how rare that is, but except for sexual orientation it's just how I feel.

In terms of physical sex, I've felt I'd rather be a girl about as far as I can remember. In terms of social gender I've never had the need, although about from the time school started until my early twenties I had quite a bit of trouble dealing with the male social expectations. Then I just decided not to give a d*n. For a long while I thought I had a very weak, or non-existent, gender identity. Eventually, though, the way I feel about my body made me think I'm transsexual, but over last summer it became clear to me that that's not quite right either. Discussions on this forum were an important part of that process.

As for classifying people like us, don't worry too much. You are what you are; the terms don't define what you are, they are just useful in describing what you are. For me, it's been useful to consider the social and physical aspects of the sex/gender thing separately: in terms of gender I'm androgyne, in terms of sex I usually consider myself a transsexual in remission. Or a chapstick lesbian (in terms of my current marital status, anyway) in a male body.

I'm still trying to figure out what that means for me, and where I'll have to go. My current theory is that it'll be a matter of making compromises between how my body feels to me and how it affects my relationship with the rest of the world. I'm both dreading that process and looking forward to it. But it's nice to hear of one more person who's in a similar situation.

Welcome!

  Nfr

Hi zyxxyz and welcome to Susan's. There are plenty of us here who don't easily fit into any particular label. There's plenty to read in the archives, and please do post an intro when you have a chance.

Even years into this process I keep reading, rethinking and discovering new things about my gender, or lack thereof. It's a journey.

Zythyra

Hey Zyxxyz,

You sound really similar to the writer Poppy.Z.Brite. (her bio can be found here http://www.poppyzbrite.com/bio.html - not sure if she talked about her gender issues in her bio, perhaps you would find this in her journal...)
She describes herself as a gay man in girls body but with no desire to appear or dress as a man. Sounds similar no?

As for identifying yourself I think you have already described how you feel "just a tomboy stuck in a gay boy's body". This is as good a desciption or identity as any. Untill you figure out otherwise I would just run with this.

I'm really interested in what you want to achive with hormones and surgery when all the external changes do not seem necessary to you, this confused me. My advise is to not rush into any changes. Take some time. If you are happy with your body then consider whether the risks or hormone therapy (of which there are many) probably outweight the benefits, but this is for you to decide.

Quote from: NickSister on March 05, 2008, 01:45:18 PM
She describes herself as a gay man in girls body but with no desire to appear or dress as a man. Sounds similar no?

  I used to feel exactly like that!

this was before i realized what androgyne was...i think pre-gendered fits me even better now, but I get along better with gay men than any other binary group!

You definitely aren't alone in this!!!  Hmmm...I'll have think more on this.

Hi,

   You're certainly not the only one stuck in the gray zone.

   I was seeing a gender counselor who had a hard time with me because I KNOW I'm not a man, so I THOUGHT I was a woman, but I refused to think about presenting as female.  Eventually I figured out for myself that I'm not really either gender.  I have some remorse over my body sex.  It comes and goes.

   One term we bandied about for a while is Non Binary Gender Variant, or just Gender Variant.  It has an official ring to it and it is quite clear as to what it is.  If you speak with any therapists again, try going with Gender Variant.  Transgender is good too, but some people think it's the same as Transsexual.  You'd think doctors would know different, but they don't.

    I wanted to have surgery too, but decided I would still have body issues and the fact that I have little desire to present as female means I am probably not the best candidate for it.


    Hang around and see if you find any answers or support that works for you.



Rebis

I've been thinking about this picture for an avatar since Dennis posted one standing on the coast of Mexico. No bathing suit here.

You, Rebis, inspired me to post it now. I like yours a lot.

This is not a new picture. I've longer hair, in a pony tail, a white beard, and teeth under reconstruction. My wife is in the picture, an important part of my life, but I cropped her to give her some privacy.

Were I twenty today, with my ADD known and under control, I might very well transition. My orientation has always been to women, but I read here that orientation sometimes changes during transitioning.

At this point, I feel I have little to gain and lots to lose by transitioning, but I am committed to stretching to the point I feel pressure, but not pain. I tried e-mailing one of the therapists listed elsewhere on this site, but have not received a reply. I'll have to try the phone, but am a great procrastinator at making calls.

In the gray zone, one is free to adjust the persona,
Simone

Quote from: Simone Louise on March 09, 2008, 08:29:51 PM
I've been thinking about this picture for an avatar since Dennis posted one standing on the coast of Mexico. No bathing suit here.

You, Rebis, inspired me to post it now. I like yours a lot.

This is not a new picture. I've longer hair, in a pony tail, a white beard, and teeth under reconstruction. My wife is in the picture, an important part of my life, but I cropped her to give her some privacy.

Were I twenty today, with my ADD known and under control, I might very well transition. My orientation has always been to women, but I read here that orientation sometimes changes during transitioning.

At this point, I feel I have little to gain and lots to lose by transitioning, but I am committed to stretching to the point I feel pressure, but not pain. I tried e-mailing one of the therapists listed elsewhere on this site, but have not received a reply. I'll have to try the phone, but am a great procrastinator at making calls.

In the gray zone, one is free to adjust the persona,
Simone

Hi Simone,

   You have a beautiful happy face.  I felt happy when I looked at it.

Quotebut I am committed to stretching to the point I feel pressure, but not pain.

is a nice way to put it.

Seshatneferw, Zyxxyz, I'm a lot like the two of you.  So I'm not going to expand, as you've pretty much described me.  I am going through transition right now, but as far as gender goes I don't identify as anything.  The key, I think, is to be ok with who you are and not worry whether it conforms to some standard of sex or gender.  But I just wanted to say that, yes, there are those of us out there who are similar to you. 

Quote from: Rebis on March 09, 2008, 10:37:56 PM

   You have a beautiful happy face.  I felt happy when I looked at it.

I thought the same thing when I saw your picture, Simone.  You look like a wonderful person to be around!

Quote from: Jaimey on March 11, 2008, 06:58:38 PM

Quote from: Rebis on March 09, 2008, 10:37:56 PM

   You have a beautiful happy face.  I felt happy when I looked at it.

I thought the same thing when I saw your picture, Simone.  You look like a wonderful person to be around!

Make that three Simone. It is a real pleasure having you here with us!

Z