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Fearing Transition

Started by Lori, March 02, 2006, 08:42:19 PM

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Lori

Hello, I'm new here and instead of boring you with my life story how I knew at the age 5 blah blah blah, that seems to be like a broken record for every TS, I'm at the point where transition has become a focal point in my life.

I'm married to a beautiful woman, have a nice home and a 7 month old son. I'm 37 years old and cannot believe this is happening to me. Things have always been hard in the past dealing with this but this time it wont go away. I'm having an "episode" and all I can think about is transitioning. I've read almost every website out there, looked at all proceedures and have actually mapped out a life. Its almost surreal but I've come to terms with what I am, and who I am finally. So do I transition or not is what I need to find out. I'm not asking anybody here because I know only I can answer that. I want to transition but I need to find out if I should. I have doubts and fears.

The fears I have are

1) Is it right for me
2) Will it make me happier
3) Will I be happy with the outcome (what I look like...I have middle of the road expecations)
4) Will the pain of losing my wife dull once I am happy with who I am?...if I am happy with who I am.
5) Being alone. So many TS women are alone. I dont know why, maybe by choice but I am a lover. I love to hug and be close to somebody.
6) Of course the fear of persecution and society that all TS face transitioning.
7) What's it going to do to my son?
8 ) Losing friends and family

To start with I'm 5' 8" and wear womens size 8 shoes, sometimes I can squeeze into 7 1/2' depending on the brand and how much chocolate I ate that day...yes I have really small feet. I have small hands and I'm thinner then I was a year ago but not at the 140-150 range I need to be at. My hair is thin on top and I'm not sure what all can be done about that other then spending thousands of dollars.

I know if I cannot pass seamlessly into society I wont make it. I'll kill myself. To lose everything only to be unhappy is not an option I'm willing to deal with.

My first thought is to see a psychologist and get my feelings sorted. Actually that is my only thought at the moment. My wife and I just came back from the therapist and basically my wife wants me to sh*t or get off the pot. She knows I cannot do that though. We are not talking about a drinkng problem, a gambling problem or something else. We are talking about changing appearences to another gender. This is the motherload of all problems in my book. Talk about confusing. Deep inside I know what I need and want to do. But honestly I just want to be normal. I want it to go away and be normal. I want to raise my son and be a good spouse.

My wife will leave if I transition. She has told me that. I understand and dont blame her. God I love her though. Its going to hurt losing her unlike any other pain I have suffered through. And I've been through more then allot of people have growing up. I just cannot believe it wont go away. I know it won't and I'm afraid to keep fighting it only to lose the battle ten years down the road and face it when I'm 47.

Are there any transexuals that have never transitioned? I cannot find any and I'm pretty good at finding things on the internet. Is there a point where you just have to give in because this episode I'm having now is pretty intense. Its affecting my daily life. Transitioning is ALL I think about. All I want to do is take hormones and start being myself.

On the flip side, my life is not bad. I have a good job, a wife, house, son and do the daily grind and its not that bad. I dont hate it, yet I'm not happy. But then again I'm not all that unhappy. I know unless you are happy with yourself you can never be really happy. Is being true to yourself and being satisfied with who you really are all that important? Is it worth it? So many questions and so little time. My innerself feels time squeezing in on her and knows that she wants to get out while she is still semi young.
I'm sorry for dumping all this on this forum but I really need the support. I've read many posts in here and it I feel like this is the place I may just stay for a while.

There are so many negatives that just seem to outweight the positives. Only positives I can think of are I get to be myself for once and get rid of this gender dysphoria problem I have. So much to sacrifice. It seems so selfish wich is not my natural state of being. I've always been giving and selfless.

Lori

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HelenW

Lori, first of all let me say WELCOME to Susan's.  I think it's wonderful that you've found us.

I'm in very much the same boat as you although I'm 13 years older and I stand to loose as much as you although my children are grown and out of the house.  My strategy is that I'm seeing a gender specializing psychologist with the goal of feminizing in small steps (and not just physically) to see, 1) how far do I need to go to ease my pain to the point where I can live with it and 2) can I go slowly and have my significant other get used to the idea in small doses without feeling the need to leave.  The therapist will help me find if this is right for me and, with his experience, may be able to help in the nuts and bolts issues because he has seen it before.

I know this is a gamble, I may be hindering myself and could loose her anyway and I feel it's very much worth the try.  Every day I feel a little more tense, a little more depressed and anxious.  I'm "accidentally" coming out to people in small ways all the time now.  I don't know if I'll make it.  But I know if my pain gets bad enough, the pangs and troubles of transition will be better than the pains or worse if I don't.

I have a lot of male pattern hair loss.  I use a wig, $1,000's is not an option for hair replacement (they're going to the therapist and other care givers).  Electrolysis and facial surgery can help you pass, the changes that hormones can bring about will help too.  You don't have to be perfect, do you?  The Wiki, as well as the links and library, here at Susan's is very good if you need info on that kind of stuff.  A gender specialist should be able to point you towards a support group where you can meet and perhaps befriend people who have gone through the same things you have. 

And you'll never be truly alone as long as you continue to visit here at Susan's.  We have a wonderfully diverse and supportive on-line community here thanks to the great people and the easy to follow site rules.  Use this site as another outlet for yourself and join in where you can.  I'll look forward to reading more from you and am again happy to say,

WELCOME!
helen
FKA: Emelye

Pronouns: she/her

My rarely updated blog: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com

Southwestern New York trans support: http://www.southerntiertrans.org/
  •  

Leigh

Quote from: Lori on March 02, 2006, 08:42:19 PM



The fears I have are

1) Is it right for me
2) Will it make me happier
3) Will I be happy with the outcome (what I look like...I have middle of the road expecations)
4) Will the pain of losing my wife dull once I am happy with who I am?...if I am happy with who I am.
5) Being alone. So many TS women are alone. I dont know why, maybe by choice but I am a lover. I love to hug and be close to somebody.
6) Of course the fear of persecution and society that all TS face transitioning.
7) What's it going to do to my son?
8) Losing friends and family

You might want to read this post I made earlier  >> https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,1948.msg14886.html#msg14886

Quote
I know if I cannot pass seamlessly into society I wont make it. I'll kill myself. To lose everything only to be unhappy is not an option I'm willing to deal with.

With this statement you might as well forget transitioning.  Seamless will not happen ever.  Family, friends, employment, everything in your life has the potential to cause your plans to unravel.

My first thought is to see a psychologist and get my feelings sorted. Actually that is my only thought at the moment. My wife and I just came back from the therapist and basically my wife wants me to sh*t or get off the pot. She knows I cannot do that though. We are not talking about a drinkng problem, a gambling problem or something else. We are talking about changing appearences to another gender. This is the motherload of all problems in my book. Talk about confusing. Deep inside I know what I need and want to do. But honestly I just want to be normal. I want it to go away and be normal. I want to raise my son and be a good spouse.



QuoteAre there any transexuals that have never transitioned?

I am sure that every cemetary has more than a few.  Some of old age and some by their own hand.


QuoteThere are so many negatives that just seem to outweight the positives. 

You just answered your own question about transition.  When the scale swings the other way then you might consider it.

Leigh
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stephanie_craxford

Hello Lori.

Wow... Welcome to Susan's.  You are going through the turmoil that many here have endured and are still enduring.  And the questions that you are asking can only be answered by you.  There is absolutely one guarantee, and that is there is no guarantee that transition will make you happy.  I can guarantee that it will change your life forever, and if that is what you think will make you happy then you need to see a therapist who specialises in these gender issues.  You have a lot to loose and one question you have to ask yourself is can you afford to loose, your wife, family, and friends, and still be happy.  Your wife has already stated that she will not be there if you transition, so before you make such a life changing decision you need to be in therapy.

You mentioned that you and your wife just came back from the therapist, what type of therapist?

1) Is it right for me -
  If your are a transsexual then it would be right for you - but it may not be good for you.

2) Will it make me happier
  There are absolutely no guarantees, even if it was right for you and it is good for you.

3) Will I be happy with the outcome (what I look like...I have middle of the road expectations)
Beauty in in the eye of the beholder, however what you look like has no bearing on who you are, and this should not be a reason to transition or not    to transition as looks have nothing to do with being a woman.


4) Will the pain of losing my wife dull once I am happy with who I am?...if I am happy with who I am.
  The pain may dull over loosing your wife, but what about your son and the rest of your family, those pains may never go away.

5) Being alone. So many TS women are alone. I don't know why, maybe by choice but I am a lover. I love to hug and be close to somebody.
  This is a very real risk that you must be willing to face

6) Of course the fear of persecution and society that all TS face transitioning.
  It goes with the territory

7) What's it going to do to my son?
Cool Losing friends and family[/quote]
  See 4 above

Just by asking yourself the above questions shows that you need to see a therapist, and yes you are right there are transsexuals who do not transition because of the risks you've spoken about.  You seem to be very happy in that "Your life is not bad" so is there a compromise that will satisfy you and your wife and allow you both to be happy?  Definitely something to discuss, and probably a starting point since you don't seem to be able to "sh*t or get off the pot".

I'm sure that there will be others who will be able to add to my comments, as I have only skimmed the surface, so I hope that you stay around, we are here to help as best we can.

Steph

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Lori

I must say Leigh is a no BS straight to the gut no nonsence gal. I like and admire that. What I meant as far as passing seamlessly into society (poor choice of words) is just going out as myself and being accepted as a woman in places that didnt know me. Such as going out to eat, shopping, going to a movie or whatever. I know on the job and at home that is out of the question.

If you make it through the first five years after surgery count yourself among the lucky 50% ( or so I have been told).

I've been told the percentage of success is much higher. I'm not sure where the 50% factor comes in. I would think after debating, going to therapy and deciding this is what needs to be done the success rate would be higher then 50% I could not imagine anybody doing this with doubts. And I do agree that once you start....there is no going back. You start it to finish or dont start at all. I am trying to find that out and double check before I even think about starting. I know my decision at the end will be final so I have to make sure its what is best for me.

Stepanie, yes I'm Transexual. I have two therapists that agree with me. Dr. Rita Cotterly and Dr. Carolyn Long http://www.sexualtherapy.com/therapists/clong.htm. You can do a google on them and find out all kinds of things about them. Yes transition would be right for me, I know it. I just dont know that it would be good for me. I know there are no guarentees and there is where my hesitation comes out the most. Will I be employed, will I be happy looking in the mirror at my new self, will my son accept me. I know I wont lose my son. My wife would not do that to me nor would I abandon him without child support.

HelenW

Its a tough boat to be in and mine is starting to rock. I've been on hormones several times and this time my wife has stated that my commitment to hormones this time would tell her its a commitment to transistion and that would be her final straw and we would split. So I have avoided them although they are calling to me me louder and harder then ever before. I'd kill for 1 little blue pill right now. There would be no baby steps. My wife would be willing to accept me as a crossdresser, nothing more. No electrolysis, no hormones, no FFS. I'd be able to shave my body and tan and go out on occasion dressed. If that is not good enough then ...well .... you know. She knows inside as well as I do that clothes do not make you a woman. Maybe we are both putting off the inevitable..clinging to hope that I can keep this under control. I am what I am and we both know it. All transexuals have to transition at some point. Its to what level we do it that seperates us. Some need the full deal, some can get by on hormones alone, others need more or less. I guess I need to find if just dressing up and getting into the local TS meetings will do it for me.

And yes I will go find that psychologist and get my feelings sorted.

Lori
  •  

Dennis

I was in a very similar situation. Married, good job, settled in life. 42 years old. And suddenly transition became an imperative.

One of my things too, was passing "seamlessly". I have a job in which it would be very awkward to be in between. What I did was set a date at which I would transition, if I was ready. Turned out, about 3 weeks before that, people started reading me as male, even though I was dressed female.

Then, when I did the transition, it went roughly ok, although people took me for a young boy rather more than I'd like, but generally, socially with strangers, everyone took me as male. Now, there's no question with strangers, but I live in a small town. Many people know. It's been only 13 months since I started hormones and just 6 since I started presenting as male, and sometimes they forget that not everyone knows. So seamless isn't really possible. But I am comfortable with myself and I feel right for the first time in my life since puberty.

And my wife also told me she'd leave me if I transitioned. I did. She did. It was painful, but the joy of being myself finally more than made up for it.

Dennis
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LostInTime

Only you can decide what will be right for yourself.  This can be a rough journey and there are no guarantees for happiness.  Hormones and transition will not solve all of your problems and I have found those who think differently do not stay alive for too terribly long.

Are there transsexuals who have not transitioned?  Yes, I have talked to a few.  Their reasons range from medical to not willing to throw everything away at a chance of happiness.  Are they happy?  I have no idea.  The last one I talked to over a year ago said that he is doing pretty well and this is someone who was just about ready to go fulltime.

As for setting conditions.  I did the same.  I decided that if I could not pass that I would not go through everything.  Deep down I never thought I could pass but, much to my (and a few others) surprise I do pretty damn well.

Good luck in your journey.
  •  

Gill

Hi Lori:

Okay here's my 2 cents from an SO's point of view. 

Is this fair is another question that you should be asking.  Fair to both of you. 

Here's a scenario:
Let's progress 10 years.  You are (maybe) in a marriage that you don't want to be in.  You've been arguing with your spouse for the past 10 years about this situation and now your son is 10 years older as well.  Who is more miserable......you, your spouse or your son? 

I know of what I speak, believe me.  I understand when your spouse says S**t or get off the pot. 

I don't mean to be hard on you about this, and I understand you have all of these thoughts flying around in your head/heart and you are truly at a crossroad in your life.  But you need to explore this and to determine which road you are going to be travelling on.  Then make your decision(s), accepting the consequences of those decisions.  You have to recognize those consequences and come to terms with them.

You quote
"My wife will leave if I transition. She has told me that. I understand and dont blame her. God I love her though. Its going to hurt losing her unlike any other pain I have suffered through. And I've been through more then allot of people have growing up. I just cannot believe it wont go away. I know it won't and I'm afraid to keep fighting it only to lose the battle ten years down the road and face it when I'm 47. "

To not proceed on the fear she may leave is selfish, for her to say she will leave if you do transition is selfish.  Correct me if I am wrong but this sounds a little blackmailish to me and perhaps not the strongest reason to stay together? 

Sounds like you truly care about each other, so much more discussion/communication is needed between the two of you and with a gender therapist who could perhaps act as a go-between if the communication gets heated.

You can come out the other side of this in one piece and communication is the key to all of this.  You may be a bit bruised but you can survive this, truly.

I hope I am not sounding too much like a looney tune here and I hope the above gives you some food for thought.

Gill
  •  

Teri Anne

Hi Lori,
To not fear transition would be like not fearing a car driving towards you.  But life is strange.  Sometimes, when you think the car is going to hit you, it veers away at the last instant.  You fear your wife leaving you.  That may or may not happen.  My girlfriend (who I'd lived with for 21 years) threatened to kill herself if I transitioned and had an operation (she was never prone to over-reaction and was always logical before this).  Some days, she'd be nice.  Other days, she'd proclaim, "I'm not a lesbian."  The angst between us became so painful (she called transsexualism "a lifetime mental illness") that I ended up breaking up with her.  I loved her but the pain between us was too much.

She moved out and I helped her find an apartment.  I even helped her move.  Since moving out, she became - again - my best friend and, now that she didn't live with me, someone who felt no need to criticize me.  We'd get together every weekend, go shopping, have lunch -- just as before - the best of friends.  To her surprise, strangers all assumed I was female.  She realized that, though she still thought of me as a man, others saw only an average woman (the picture is me on a good day!) She didn't know how to load pictures on a dating site so I took pictures of her and got them onto the site.  Through this, she found someone 3000 miles away who she became friends with and has now married.  She moved back east and we still talk daily on the phone -- the best of friends.

There's a sadness that it didn't work out, of course.  In so many ways, we were alike.  We both enjoyed architecture and the same foods, movies and TV shows. 

If you can live with the possibility that your wife may become, instead, a good friend, then perhaps this part of transition might work out.  If you can't live not living with her (and she remains definite in her non-approval), then that leads you in another direction.  To a certain extent, her threat of leaving you could be real or it could be a strategy (like my friend's threat of suicide).  Non of us - including your wife - knows how it will play out.

You will probably think different things at different times of your life.  Sometimes, after a battle, people ask soldiers, "If you knew you would lose a leg to conquer that hill, would you still do it?"  Most of the tiime, they respond, "Yes!"  I always am confused by that answer.  Would any hill be worth losing my leg?  As has been stated by others, risky decisions have no right or wrong answer.  We can tell you how it worked for us, but truthfully, we don't know how it'll work for you.

I hear of some post-op TS's in this room whose wives have stayed with them -- the wife loves the person, not the (male or female) body.  I wish my best friend had been like that.  Sometimes I wonder if I hadn't forced my best friend to leave if she would have gradually become more tolerant of the transition.  It's a question I (and she) will never know the answer to...some "hands" need to be played out.  You will never truly know the answers to your questions until you "play them out."  Nobody thought the horse Seabisquit or the fighter "Cinderella Man" would win.  I understand fully that you're winning some things could mean losing a lot of other things.  Not all "hands" can be won.  Has all the pain of my transition been worth it?  Most days, it is, some days - I won't kid you - it isn't. 

Life isn't a perfect thing.

Teri Anne
  •  

Lori

I've thought and been through in my mind many of the things that have been brought up.

I will say my wife has said to me, and I quote, "I am to shallow and vain of a person to live with you if you transition." Losing her is a definite should I transition. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Am I prepared for that? Yes, in a way that I know once I begin to see my real self appear my happiness inside would overshadow what I feel in time. I would rather spend the rest of my life with her and I would never stop loving her. I could only hope we would be best friends and go shopping and doing things together. I think much of that would depend on how society viewed me and how well I looked. (like I said she is very vain and admits it) I am not prepard to lose my son and I won't. He would just have two mommies I suppose and since he is so young it is better that way.

No, my main fears after transition, even though they could be considered unfounded, are the persecution of society, being unhappy with my decision, and getting killed by god fearing bigots. I realise friends come and go and I may not like the same people once I begin living as myself and Lori will make new friends. Relatives on the other hand would be much tougher. I suppose if my Mom accepted me then I would be fine and everyone else could kiss my butt. I've lived my life the way they wanted me to for them long enough. I understand it's now time to live life the way I need and want to. My problem in life has been my extreme selflessness. I have never been selfish and this is being selfish to an extreme. To push everybody and everyone aside and do just for me and expect them to deal with it whether they like it or not. How they deal with it is up to them, but to force it on them, is selfish. I know I have to be that in order to transition.

My biggest fear is doing it and saying..whups..I made a mistake. This is not what I really wanted or needed. There is no going back once the wife has left, the house is sold, and jobs are altered, the changes from hormones have reshaped the body, electrolysis, and surgery. Whats done is done and boy howdy that would be a huge mistake to be wrong about. I know I'm the only one that can ever answer that question. I just need guidance and professional help to help me make the best decision for myself. My wife did say I need to do what I need to do for ME. Not her. Stop thinking about her and find out what I need to do so we can stop pussyfooting around and get on with our lives either together or apart.

Lori
  •  

Hazumu

This thread brings up something tangentially...

I've read in several places an attitude that some Natal Females have that a TS female can never be a 'woman', because we can never fully experience every aspect of whatever they are defining womanhood to be.  I even heard this recently from a Natal Female I'm out to.

Now, when I decided I MUST transition, I took all this into account.  One of my fantasies was that I had been born a 100% Natal Female who was fertile and capable of bearing children.  But, of course, as one born into a male body, this option is not yet possible to me, and I don't believe that reincarnation would do me any good.  My luck I'd get my wish for a female body, but end up with a male brain! 

Anyway, even though I couldn't get the 100% solution, I decided I need to pursue what I can get -- even if that meant that there would always be a percentage of Natal Females who would never accept me, and would always be ready to remind me that while I may look sorta' like a female, and wear female clothes, and had my genitalia surgically re-arranged to look and perform like female genitalia, and had grown breasts, that I was not, and never would be, a 'Woman', and they would never accept me as such and let me into their clubhouse.

I don't need their permission.

I also mention the above to point out that the argument is used as a means of exerting control.  It's a variation on the monkey-trap gourd.

Lori, What does your heart tell you you must do?  And, how much are you willing to sacrifice to pursue that?  And remenber, not $#!^ing and getting off the pot is also a choice/action.  And its an action you may be WANTING to choose and are choosing to do it.  If you look deep in yourself and you decide that transition means more to you than your relation with your spouse, be honest and tell her (if you're ready to deal with the repercussions.)  She may tell you you are being selfish.  Yes.  She may say she'll leave if you go through with it.  You don't want that to happen, but you're willing to accept it if it does.  If another person can prevent you from doing something that you have a strong desire to do, than that person has control over you, and I will argue that that control over you is not a good thing and is unhealthy.

Okay, I'm about out of steam (I can't coherently frame the other ideas I want to express  :( )

Hope this helps;

Haz
  •  

Cassandra

QuoteI've read in several places an attitude that some Natal Females have that a TS female can never be a 'woman', because we can never fully experience every aspect of whatever they are defining womanhood to be.

We had this discussion in another thread but it's worth repeating. So if a natal woman is born without a womb or filopian tubes and never has a mensas then by their logic these natals are not and never will be true women and thus cannot be members of the "club". 

I wouldn't give people with that attitude any credibility. I have female friends who knew me before and they accept me fully so there  :-*.

Cassie
  •  

Teri Anne

Hi Lori, some (subjective) responses to your post....

Lori: "my wife has said to me, and I quote, "I am to shallow and vain of a person to live with you if you transition."
Response:  Again, could be a sentence to try to control (or save) you.

Lori:  "Am I prepared for that? Yes, in a way that I know once I begin to see my real self appear my happiness inside would overshadow what I feel in time."
Response:  There are no guarantees, but you're thinkiing things out of the way things may be.  It's a first and necessary step.

Lori:  I could only hope we would be best friends and go shopping and doing things together. I think much of that would depend on how society viewed me and how well I looked. (like I said she is very vain and admits it)"
Response:  My ex has always placed incredible importance on how others look upon her.  She grew up in a Jewish family (she's agnostic now) and knows bigotry firsthand.  Your wife, perhaps, will change your opinion as strangers presume you're a woman.  It's unfortunate that your wife hates the idea of your electrolysis.  There are few things more powerful of making genetic males look more female than facial electrolysis.  Some women hate kissing men with prickly beards.  Perhaps you can suggest that your kisses will not be as painful if your stubble is gone?

Lori:  "My main fears after transition, even though they could be considered unfounded, are the persecution of society, being unhappy with my decision, and getting killed by god fearing bigots."
Response:  Again, all these fears are very rational though, in reality, may or may not happen.  Being killed by "god fearing bigots," in particular, is improbable unless you "walk the streets" at 2AM.  Sure, terrible things happen, but bad things often happen to ordinary people. Perhaps, since you seem insecure (not uncommon) you need to try crossdressing away from your city and people who would recognize you.  You'll probably find, as most TS's find, that if you give clues like breasts and longish hair (a wig), people really don't examine others that closely.  Your attitude can often mean the difference between "passing" and not.  I've never been one to wear overtly feminine clothes.  You could probably wear some of your casual male clothes -- the wig and breasts (a bra) would clue people in.  Needless to say, dressing in an overt feminine fashion can bring on the looks that you fear.

Lori:  Relatives on the other hand would be much tougher. I suppose if my Mom accepted me then I would be fine and everyone else could kiss my butt. I've lived my life the way they wanted me to for them long enough."
Response:  So much of what you say is an echo of what we all felt.  How does your mom feel?  Mine. despite my fears, came to defend me.  You may want to ask your mom, or relatives, what do they want for you?  Most of the time, they will respond that they want you to be happy.  Explain then, that being female is who you are and this is what makes you happy.  They will, perhaps, try to argue, in an effort to "protect" you.  How firm you are will determine their acceptance.  If you are unsure, your wife, your mom, your relatives - anyone who loves you - will try like heck to convince you to back away.

Lori: "My problem in life has been my extreme selflessness. I have never been selfish and this is being selfish to an extreme."
Response:  Yes, but loving yourself is also important.  Men are taught, from childhood, to be selfless, to step in front of the truck to protect your loved ones. This makes it very hard for M2F's to transition. Remember the saying, "smile and the world smiles with you?"  If people see you're happy, they will mellow out.  You are, as you say, "forcing it on them."  It's unfortunate, but so is being gay or any number of societally different outlooks.  No matter how it seems to you, you're not hurting them on purpose.  My ex, despite her angst, knew that to be a non-issue.  She knew we had always protected one another and knew I was literally trapped.

Lori: "My biggest fear is doing it and saying..whups..I made a mistake. This is not what I really wanted or needed."
Response:  Well, I lived your worst nightmare:  "the wife has left, the house is sold, and jobs are altered, the changes from hormones have reshaped the body, electrolysis, and surgery. Whats done is done and boy howdy that would be a huge mistake to be wrong about."

And I survived.  The biggest discovery many TS's find, upon transitioning, is that there really isn't as huge a difference between the genders as we thought.  The main difference between males and females is, essentially, how we are treated and what freedoms we have.  I find much greater freedom to express my emotions (crying at a movie is no longer a "wuss" thing).  I can touch and hug people I meet for the first time without them thinking that I'm trying to "cop a feel."  Hugging is a great joy to me. 

I remember, as a man, feeling like I was a suspect.  Women take things into stores and can't imagine anyone asking them if they're trying to shoplift.  I had an image, as a man, that all women thought we were beer-guzzling football-watching non-emotional neandertals.  In dating some men, post op, I was surprised at how many men I dated were sexually pushy - they didn't seem to mind that they were, by their actions, acting out their neanderthal stereotypes.

I generally wear pants and casual clothes.  The main reason I transitioned was to get rid of that thing I abhored seeing when I took a shower.  It was not about clothes, or makeup or things people presume TS's transition to get

Lori:  "I just need guidance and professional help to help me make the best decision for myself."
Response:  I don't have as much faith in psychologists as others in this room but that's purely my subjective opinion.  But perhaps group counseling might help your wife become more tolerant.  I never asked for my ex for approval of my actions, only tolerance/ acceptance.  To this day, my ex presumes that being TS is an incurable obsession. 

Lori:  "My wife did say I need to do what I need to do for ME. Not her. Stop thinking about her and find out what I need to do so we can stop pussyfooting around and get on with our lives either together or apart."
Response:  Despite her threat of leaving you, this shows she still cares and loves you.  They say "time heals all wounds."  My ex wouldn't see me for several months after the split-up.  And now we're friends.

It was a roll of the dice, with a hunch that her intelligence would win out her fears.  Consider taking "baby steps."  And rest assured, there are many post op TS's, despite publicly stated sureness, that wonder if we've done the right thing.  Being post op can simply mean trading some dysphoria angst for another type of angst.  My current angst is that, in dating, I still prefer women.  This means that I have to find a lesbian...well, lesbians like lesbians which, by default, I am now.  As a guy, I felt I was living a lie.  And now, as a woman, I have to someday confess to a woman I love that I have a secret (a male past).  I've fallen in love two times now since being post op (1999).  In both cases, I hoped I would be living with them for the rest of my life.  They professed to love me in the same way.  Upon finding out my past, though, they left me.  That's an untalked about problem -- love after transition.  Many lesbians don't consider us to be "real" women.  Dating me, they worried if they were "bi."  It's the same fear a guy has of dating me -- does this mean they are secretly gay?  It's ridiculous and I only bring it up to assure you that, in some post-op lives, there is still uncertainty.  I've decided to move to Washington state to a community where only a handful of friends will know me.  In the end, this is the best answer for me...

So far.  'Till the next day.

Teri Anne
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Lori

Gender IS between the ears, not the legs. A vagina does not make a woman any more then a penis makes you a man. You are defined by your actions and your actions come from what is between your ears. Society has simply made the labels based on what can be seen. Uneducated, fear, sacred religious teachings all have taught society what sex and gender is. Educated, intelligent people know there is more to a man/woman, male/female then body parts. If a woman has a hysterectomy is she no longer a woman? There are boyish woman, and girlish ones as well. There are women that chew tobacco and ride horses and others that would not be caught dead in a pair of pants. The flexibility of womanhood is certainly a bonus.

To judge and say who is a woman and who isnt, take a looong hard look at Janet Reno. Then look at Leslie Townsend and if neither of them where famous, and nobody knew about Leslie's past, then who would be more accepted in main stream society?

Sometimes I seriously believe its all about appearence and the better you look, the worse it can be. GG's do it to each other. They are their own worst critics. Jealousy is bad, and its horrible when they are jealous of you.

Only way I could say that I would never make it 100% is chromosones. Since I'm not going to let them take my DNA and have it tested, I won't worry about that.
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Cassandra

QuoteOnly way I could say that I would never make it 100% is chromosones.

Again this is no indicator either. A man can have XX or XY or XYX or any other combination and still be physically male. Same with women. So what defines a woman?

Topic: What do you think makes the Female?
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2108.0.html

Cassie
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CarolC Oz Girl

Hi Lori

I am Caroline I new to Susan to and have found the girls to be very supportive in an emonitional time.

We all share the pain you are feeling and one thing about life is that everyone is different and we all bring our own set of issues with us.


Seeing a therapist is your first port of call, why cause pain before you need to or are ready to deal with it, once you start down this road on a serious level, well it like its very hard to put tooth past back in the tube.

I really hope you do stay here you will find some wonderful friends, there are two who have replyed to you, they will know who they are which hold a special place in my heart.

This what you are going through is no easy, and at the end of day the choice is yours which does nothing to take the pressure off, but we can be here for you with an ear to listin and a shoulder to cry on.

Love


Caroline


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Lori

Thank you Teri Anne for your long and very informitive post. I think I read it three times already   ;D
My mom lives in Canby Oregon (30 miles south of Portland) and she is moving to Washington State sometime in the near future. It is absolutley beautiful up there. I've been to Mt. St. Helens three times since it blew up.

Hello Caroline, yes I'm seeing a therapist now. Both wife and I are. Next step is the psychologist. I received your PM but for some reason I am not able to reply to it nor am I able to send one.

Anyone at this board can email me at my profiles addy until I can figure out what is going on with my account here.

I just recieved an email from one of the admins and It will be resolved soon. Thank you Leigh  ;)

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Teri Anne

Thanks for the kind comments, Lori.  I'm happy you found it informative.  I think all of us in this room walk a fine line, not knowing what to say exactly to someone who's thinking of transitioning.  There are risks and we'd love to spare you the hurt we've experienced.  Unfortunately, you can feel pain and angst no matter which choice you choose: fully transitioning, crossdressing, or just remaining as you are.   

We know (as you, I'm sure, do) that the sooner you transition, the more successful the transition can be physically.  I was in my mid-thirties (like you) when I started seriously pondering transition.  I went to a few TG meetings.  It wasn't until ten years later, after reading a lot on the TG internet sites, that I finally drew up the courage.  Like you, I faced a recediing hairline.  I wore a wig for years until I could afford hair transplants.  The wig made me feel like a fake woman and was uncomfortable.  I hated dating with the wig because I feared my date reaching up and touching my "hair."  Even if they were accepting, I dreaded my own image in the mirror and feared how I would ever go to bed with a man or a woman.

Many internet love sites have people stressing "no lies."  I had a double whammy - my past manhood and my hair.  Over time, I came to feel better about myself (thru estrogen, hair transplants, SRS, facial surgery, electrolysis).  Each thing helps.  You wonder how you'll ever have the money.  Like others, I found it by not spending it on other things.  It's truly a question of priorities.  I wanted the angst of being a pseudo-woman (my vision of myself) to end ASAP.  And until there is solid medical evidence proving the legitimacy of transsexualism there are some post ops, like me, that will, on rare days, wonder if I've talked myself into thinking I'm female when it's all really a lot of huuey.  The famous eye doctor/tennis player Renee Richards pondered that and came to the conclusion (like my ex did) that it's an incurable obsession.  If a famous doctor (who obviously knows a lot about medicine) can feel that, who knows what the real reality is?

Having been through it, post ops experience the good and bad of transition.  At first, you're nervous as hell, thinkiing people are looking at you.  You acclimate, over time, realizing that people just look around -- people like staring at people.  The bad experiences (loss of loved one, home, job, family) make us, who have lived through it, wary of encouraging anyone to follow our path.  You've shown yourself to be very knowledgeable about these dangers.  You've done your homework.

Thanks for telling me about Washington.  It sounds like a beautiful place.  So much better than L.A.!  I get great peace from nature.  Perhaps, up there, I can find someone who likes the same.  If you do end up, like me, with an ex (yes, it's sad) and trying to date women, there's another concern...how the heck do lesbians find one another?  It's not as easy to locate possible partners as when you're hetero and you just look for the opposite of you.  The internet, for me, seems to be filled with people who just want sex.  I want more than that.

Like in "Transamerica," you just try your best and hope things work out.  As Maude said in the feature film "Harold And Maude":  "Reach out, take a chance.  Get hurt even.  But play the game as well as you can.  L-I-V-E, live.  Otherwise, you have nothing to talk about in the locker room."  Good luck in whatever path you choose.

Hugs,
Teri Anne
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Lori

Quote from: Teri Anne on March 04, 2006, 11:04:58 PM
and trying to date women, there's another concern...how the heck do lesbians find one another?  It's not as easy to locate possible partners as when you're hetero and you just look for the opposite of you.  The internet, for me, seems to be filled with people who just want sex.  I want more than that.



Sometimes I think people try to hard. There is someone for everyone on this planet. Sometimes it takes a little time to find that someone and often they are much closer and more accessible then you every dreamed. It could be somebody you just met, or somebody you have known for a long time. Relationships take time to build. Talking and chatting can lead to meeting and other things. The internet is wonderful for meeting like minded people and starting relationships. I just watched a Discovery Health Channel show last night that had been copied to DVD (Therapist gave it to my wife and I) that showed two MTF TS living together in San Fransisco and where very happy. Give it time and dont try to hard. Somebody will love you for who you are, not what you where. You are very beautiful and eloquent. You have a lot to offer. I find that for all the closed minded people out there that there are just as many if not more open minded people. Fall for the heart and mind and the rest will come naturaly. There is no doubt I'd be a lesbian if I crossed over, maybe a little bi just to try out the new parts out of curiosity.


I believe I'm going to stay at this forum for a while. So many kind people here, men and women with vast experience.

So let me tell you a little more about myself. About 3 years ago I went to see my first Gender Therapist and was put on hormones through an Endo. I was already self medicating prior to that and decided to go about it legally and with a prescription. After 4 months I got scared and went off of them and purged everything for the umpteenth time in my life. I threw away clothes, pills, shoes...everything. Gee I was cured!!! I had no reason to pursue that life. I called my Therapist and told her this is not what I wanted. I wonder now if feeling so normal and fine because of the hormones is what lead me to believe I felt cured. It lasted about 3 years and now I'm back to square one with a son now.

I realise now there is no cure but death or transition. How far to take transition depends on me and how far I need to go to be at peace with myself. Hence I really need a psychologist to help me sort my feelings. It may mean I can get by just crossdressing and doing it part time and still living as I am now. It may mean I need to crossover. I want to find out by the end of the year. I need to do that for myself because of age, and for my wife for her sake. I dont want to fight this and end up ten years from now giving in to it. I am what I am and now I have accepted it. Its time now for me to come up with a solution and deal with it.

Lori





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Leigh

Quote from: Teri Anne on March 04, 2006, 11:04:58 PM
how the heck do lesbians find one another?  It's not as easy to locate possible partners as when you're hetero and you just look for the opposite of you.

Think womencentric events.

A womens soft ball game, soccor, bars for women, lectures on feminism, college classes that center around empowerment of women.  There are women only outdoor groups, hiking, fishing, camping.  Women only retreats, spirituality classes, yoga organizations.  Health clubs if you are physically able (post op) to fully use the facilities.

Look into groups like a womans gardening group, sewing, cooking.  Volunteer work for a local GLBT rights group, aids hospice, Gay Pride events.  A ny where 10 or more women gather chances are at least one is family.

If nothing else, an HRC decal and a rainbow kittie on your car.  Jewlery that is Lesbian specific.  I wear a necklace with a pendant of two interlocked Venus symbols.  Its called advertising  ;D

Leigh



The possibilities are endless if you look around.
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