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Why do people seem more transphobic than 4 years ago?

Started by Priya, March 03, 2018, 05:45:07 PM

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Priya

Is it me or are more people criticising trans people on the internet in recent years?
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AnonyMs

I'm guessing politics is at the root of anything like that.
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Deborah

They feel they can be rude and say any bigoted or racist thing they want now without consequence because they are following the example of their (unnamed) national leader.  Additionally, worldwide there is a resurgence of the far right wing reactionaries.


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Devlyn

Not seeing it, in fact, it seems to me that acceptance is growing.

Hugs, Devlyn
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Kylo

"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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AnamethatstartswithE

Quote from: Priya on March 03, 2018, 05:45:07 PM
Is it me or are more people criticising trans people on the internet in recent years?

Were you reading lots of stuff having to do with trans people 4 years ago? It may just be perception due to it being in the news more.
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Rachel

In practice I have not been treated any differently. I feel as though we lost support and in many ways we have. There has been a wave of different political officials and anti trans laws are being enacted.
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AnneK

If you are seeing that, I suspect it may be due to the current political situation in the U.S.  Bigotry, in general, seems to be rising over the past year or so and not just in the U.S.
I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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natalie.ashlyne

Quote from: AnneK on March 03, 2018, 08:56:47 PM
If you are seeing that, I suspect it may be due to the current political situation in the U.S.  Bigotry, in general, seems to be rising over the past year or so and not just in the U.S.

I totally agree with you and I think it started January 20, 2017 When LQBTQI was take of the white house website.
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Kylo

Bigotry is rising in general.

The far left refuses to accept free speech and opinions unless it's speech and opinions that they like, the far right just sits in its corner feeling more and more justified at hating the "liberals" for the former.

Both are feeding off each other while the actual liberals and those in the center are stuck rolling their eyes knowing where all this historically leads.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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AnneK

QuoteThe far left refuses to accept free speech and opinions unless it's speech and opinions that they like, the far right just sits in its corner feeling more and more justified at hating the "liberals" for the former.

Perhaps you should read up on what happened in Charlottesville VA last year, where a woman was killed by a white supremast.  Tell me again it's about free speech.  Also, I just watched a movie tonight "Denial", about how David Irving, a holocaust denier sued an author who pointed out how he was fabricating nonsense about the holocaust.  Watch that and tell us again about how the left refuses to accept free speech.
I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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Kylo

Are you aware of who the far left is? That is people like Antifa. People who tend to wear masks to hide their identities while rioting, being violent, setting fire to things and attempting to disrupt free speech events. Yes, free speech events. Google Antifa and free speech events. Antifa do not like free speech:



I'm well aware of what occurred in Charlottesville. The far right had an organized (legal) gathering there, Antifa and others showed up to (legally) protest that event, the police mismanaged the crowd separation during the evening leading to the two meeting when they shouldn't have. The following day one man in a car drove into a crowd of protestors causing death and injury. That man has been identified as a far right individual. You might also like to know Antifa - the far leftists - were being violent there as well. Or is this man waving a makeshift flamethrower at people with flags just another well-meaning "anti-fascist"?



Both sides have been acting despicably.

Holocaust denial? If you have free speech then you have the right to believe (or deny) whatever you want. That's what freedom is. If someone else wrote a book about this person claiming something about him that sounds like a libel case waiting to happen. But don't worry - we don't have free speech here in the UK any longer, so David Irving isn't likely to be publishing anything like it in future if someone here can claim he offended them.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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natalie.ashlyne

Quote from: Kylo on March 03, 2018, 09:10:40 PM
Bigotry is rising in general.

The far left refuses to accept free speech and opinions unless it's speech and opinions that they like, the far right just sits in its corner feeling more and more justified at hating the "liberals" for the former.

Both are feeding off each other while the actual liberals and those in the center are stuck rolling their eyes knowing where all this historically leads.

I don't think free speech is the problem. The part of the problem is the hate filled words that people consider free speech which is there right you can only poke a bear so many times before the bear attacked back.
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Kylo

I do.

Why?

Because I've noticed that if people don't have the release valve of speech, they feel persecuted and justified in being violent. And I prefer speech over violence. Anyone with sense ought to prefer speech to violence.

When we have people on the left claiming "free speech IS violence" or that people should be jailed for not using our pronouns, where does that eventually lead? Do you reckon it leads to people getting along better? More love, less hate?

Here's a summation of the problem:



We won't end hate by silencing people. We won't get respect from disrespectful people by persecuting them. They will feel justified in their bigotry. Eventually they will feel like victims, and a when a person feels enough of a victim, he or she can feel justified in lashing out. Some of the greatest crimes against humanity were perpetrated by people who perceived themselves as victims. This applies to both the far left AND the far right. BOTH at this point in time are now perceiving themselves as victims of bigotry and persecution. A universal rule of thumb when dealing with humans and their psychology is that if you try to get something - respect, love, acceptance - by force, you will get nothing but force in return. The same is happening here.

And currently it's the "tolerant left" who have more means to silence the far right. They have the means to disrupt free speech events, they have the backing of the press when they want to defame, denounce or smear someone as far right, they have the backing of established anti-discrimination laws in many cases. Not all, but many. They are in the better position right now. However the more they refuse to allow their ideological opponents an outlet, the more are drawn to the far right. The allure of the forbidden and the taboo, for one thing. For another, people who are fed up of being called bigots even when they're not. People who are aware of the sudden increasing pressure on white people to feel guilty for things their great-great-grandfathers did. All reasons I've heard lately for why people feel pushed away from the left.

Being closer to the left myself I find it self-defeating to create more of this, and I find it especially self-defeating to try to force acceptance of people like me on people in the far right. They will never accept me by force. Only by meeting them on a level playing field and giving them their say can you even hope for it. And you may not get it. But you are assured to get nothing but abject hatred if you make them victims of your persecution.   

This seems to be beyond many people on the left these days, and I'm increasingly beginning to think it's because actual liberalism, true classical liberalism, has gone out the window among us. A real liberal accepts there is a point of view he may not like, he may not want to hear, but he ought to defend to the death someone's right to have it. For simple reason that today's tolerance may be tomorrow's tyrant. And without your free speech, you have NO way of protecting yourself from tomorrow's tyrant without resorting to violence. SO DON'T THROW IT AWAY. The freedom to express ideas and the constant expression of wholesome ideas is the only steadfast defense against Nazism and real bigotry. Unless of course we want a repeat of some of the worst parts of the last century. The reason the bigotry is rising - on both sides - has a lot to do with the fact we are not doing this and we are not respecting the right of others to have their views. We are all too ready to scream in their faces, shut them down, disrupt and persecute.

Well if we keep on doing it we'll get what's coming to us. A state without freedom. And the next day who knows. Bloodshed not a distant possibility.


"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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HappyMoni

I know this is a mistake to get involved in this conversation. The thing is, the far left is not being incorporated into the mainstream. The far right is in the US right now. There is no equivalency.

The CDC can't even mention the word transgender on orders from the present executive branch.
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Kylo

Not saying the mainstream is far left, but it is of the left. The establishment appears to be more liberal than not. Certainly not pro-Trump if your news outlets are anything to go by.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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HappyMoni

Quote from: Kylo on March 03, 2018, 10:30:32 PM
Not saying the mainstream is far left, but it is of the left.
Guess that is a matter of perspective. :)
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
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AnneK

QuoteThe establishment appears to be more liberal than not. Certainly not pro-Trump if your news outlets are anything to go by.

Really??

Who was it that tried to keep trans out of the military?
Who was it that created a law that legalizes bigotry against trans?
Who was it that cut Medicaid to millions, while handing out billions in tax cuts for the wealthy?
Who was it that's clearly bigoted against Muslims, Puerto Ricans & Mexicans?
Who is it that denies science and climate change?
Who created the banned word list for CDC?
I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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Kylo

Whenever I look at US outlets, they're endlessly complaining about anything and everything Trump, from NK to his hair to his kids. All kinds of outlets from Vice to TNYT to CNN to Metro to The Guardian, MSNBC, NBC, Buzzfeed, Huffpost, Washington Post, the Economist, Politico, and the BBC all appear to have leftist bias on most issues. On the other end of the scale sites like Breitbart / Drudge are regarded as dens of bigotry and deserving of being shut down. About the only one left with any remote 'cred' on the right of center appears to be Fox. 

Yes, I'd say there's a liberal bias in the mainstream today for the most part.

That's not even mentioning that Google and YouTube have begun censoring independent commentators on their platforms who don't have leftist bias, or making it increasingly difficult for them to output content without strikes. And I'm not even talking about people on the far right. They've been demonetizing leftists and centrists who dare discuss "controversial issues" for more than a year now, because advertising companies have a leftist bias and don't want their ads shown on these channels. They've now stepped up the censorship against many of those for real as well.

Quote from: AnneK on March 03, 2018, 10:39:53 PM
Really??

Yes, really. Trump himself is not the establishment. He wasn't supposed to win, by the looks of things, but did on a technicality. By the establishment I refer to the machinery that runs/underpins government, including elements of the government itself, and I'm referring to academia, and the press, and globalists, most of which appear to loathe him with a passion. If he was their golden boy, he wouldn't be having any optics issues. As it happens they seethe every time the man's terrible hair so much as blows in the wind.   
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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big kim

Big difference between free speech & offending someone. On the whole I can't say transphobia is any worse or better over here (UK). There is a lot more racism/xenophobia however
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