PurpleWolf is back  !!!

Just something I hear very often - trans people imagining/wanting to believe/hoping they might be intersex!

Have you ever thought about this? Why? Do you think being intersex is a tempting idea that would validate your experience?

Have you ever actually been medically tested? What was the result?

I hear some people actually have found they are indeed intersex, though that should be extremely rare to not be aware of it until in adulthood.

Were you relieved or disappointed to find out? Has being or not being intersex played a role in your transitioning?

Would you like to be intersex? Why?

And if you've been intersex and known about it your whole life, did that make transitioning easier or harder for you? In what ways?

Or did you find out you do have some feminine/masculine characteristics you were not aware of such as atypical hormone balance etc.?

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As for me - YES I certainly have hoped/thought about this!!! For some reason the idea of knowing to be intersex (and having some male parts in your body) feels sort of validating to me. In my deepest despair I used to think that if only I were intersex that would be a certain 'proof' I'm trans then! And no, have never been tested - so still kinda hoping they would find a testicle inside my body or something like that  ! Though knowing that if I really was, I'd probably know by now. And in reality nothing really indicates in the direction I should be.

In reality though I don't necessarily wish I was intersex - after all that's a medical condition of its own and might need some taking care of. Plus intersex people have always been treated in a horrible way. I'm a huge supporter of intersex rights!!! And want an international ban on genital mutilation. Through being trans and all intersex people hold a special place in my heart.

Here are a few interesting videos/channels on being intersex:

What It's Like To Be Intersex


Channel by intersex activist Pidgeon (their genitals were mutilated as a child=clitoris removed):
https://www.youtube.com/user/pidgejen/videos

INTERSEX EXPLAINED! | Complete Androgen Insensitivity

No.

I know I'm not lying to myself in terms of my feelings. It doesn't need physical validation on top of that for me. Possibly some cis people would understand/tolerate the whole thing better if I was but it's not their opinion that's important. 

I have wondered but never been tested, the thing for me is my chest. Belive im atleast a b cup. I always put this down to steroid tabets over the years. Been on them 2o years now but when i look back i started taking then when i was 15. I hit male pubity early at around 10 or 11 but im sure now they they started to grow about 13, a couple of years before the drugs. Even when other kids asked i passed it off as musclely pecks

Think the only way ill ever find out is when i do start hrt in the future and get bloods done before hand

Welcome back Mr. Wolf.😊  Yes, I thought maybe I was intersexed as did my dad and he did take me to a Dr about it. His reason for taking me to a Dr was my lack of male development. When I was 16 I was 5'3, my voice hadn't dropped much, I had absolutely no facial hair and I was very thin and had no muscle development. My brother was 6'4 and looked 20 when he was 16. The Dr tested my hormone levels and did a chromosome test. I also had a cat scan I guess to make sure I didn't have a pituitary tumor or something. Everything came back normal. My testosterone levels were extremely low but still in the normal range. The genetic tests were normal other than my albinism and the cat scan showed nothing abnormal. The Dr said I was healthy and that just because my brother was big that didn't mean I would be. The Dr told my dad if my lack of development was causing me distress he could prescribe supplemental testosterone to which my dad said no. Before we went to the Dr I had asked my dad if he was going to make me take testosterone if the Dr suggested it. My uncle had suggested giving me testosterone many times so I was worried about it. He was always telling my dad it was child abuse to let me be a tiny scrawny guy if it could be avoided, which he thought testosterone would do. My dad  told me absolutely not and that he would never force me to take testosterone if I didn't want it. He told me he wasn't taking me to get testosterone, he just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with me. He did enjoy telling my uncle my tests showed no medical reason for giving me testosterone and to shut up and just drop it.

I was surprised to find out I wasn't intersexed because I was trying to figure out why puberty hadn't turned me into a beast like my brother. I was thankful it hadn't but I still wondered why. But I wasn't dissapointed to find out I wasn't intersexed. I think a lot of trans people kind of romanticize being intersexed and think intersexed people are more female/male than a trans person and it gives them more right to transition. But it doesn't.  Your soul makes you male or female, not your body. Being intersexed is still a medical or genetic disorder. Intersexed people have their own problems relating to their disorder. For me, having been born with a genetic disorder I wouldn't want another one. It would have been cool if I had XX sex chromosomes only because having XY is a way you can potentially be outed as trans but I don't so I'm not going to stress over it.

There is a situation where having a chromosome pattern or internal sex organs contrary to your birth-assigned sex could be useful: In jurisdictions that would not change the gender marker on a non-intersex transgender person, said intersex individual would likely be able to use their genetics or physiology as a basis for changing their legal sex. After all, one of the most common arguments that transphobic people make is that "you can't change your DNA" - so if your DNA doesn't agree with your assigned sex then they'd have to follow through unless they want to be hypocrites.

Quote from: tgchar21 on February 26, 2018, 09:57:15 AM
There is a situation where having a chromosome pattern or internal sex organs contrary to your birth-assigned sex could be useful: In jurisdictions that would not change the gender marker on a non-intersex transgender person, said intersex individual would likely be able to use their genetics or physiology as a basis for changing their legal sex. After all, one of the most common arguments that transphobic people make is that "you can't change your DNA" - so if your DNA doesn't agree with your assigned sex then they'd have to follow through unless they want to be hypocrites.

Haha, good point!

Quote from: tgchar21 on February 26, 2018, 09:57:15 AM
There is a situation where having a chromosome pattern or internal sex organs contrary to your birth-assigned sex could be useful: In jurisdictions that would not change the gender marker on a non-intersex transgender person, said intersex individual would likely be able to use their genetics or physiology as a basis for changing their legal sex. After all, one of the most common arguments that transphobic people make is that "you can't change your DNA" - so if your DNA doesn't agree with your assigned sex then they'd have to follow through unless they want to be hypocrites.

So would being intersex be the golden ticket to socially transition, perhaps, but maybe not; it's not like one would walk around with the genetic test results pinned to them for all to see, and they would automatically not be discriminated against.

I did find out I was intersex 2 years ago I was happy and sad because now I had answers to why I felt certain ways. And why certain things would happen to me that was explained as a fissure when I went to get checked out for bleeding I was told dont worry about it. Well one day I had enough as the bleeding was bad and I went to the doctors and they did x ray ultra sound ct scan and blood work and it revealed that I had a blind uterus and ovaries and I had estrogen in my system. I found out if you drink 16 to 24 cans of Pepsi per day that the caffeine can suppress the estrogen. I found out I can not have kids biologically which I am very sad about I always wished I could even when I was younger. I am now almost fully happy with myself and yes being intersex has helped push me towards transitioning. I found out 2 months ago that my parents knew when I was 5 but I had know idea my mom passed away when I was 8 and well my father well he has always treated me horribly since my mom passed I have not talked to him since I was 16 I am 34 now. The doctor that I had passed away in 97 and my files where set away and the endocrinologist was able to track them down. Would I  change this yes if I would have know this sooner I would have transitioned sooner I would have been happier and hurt less people.

Yes, I toyed with the idea back in my denial phase.  ("Phase".  Yeah, right!  That "phase" lasted about 95% of my life to date.)  I bought into the lies that society tells about trans people: that it's a choice.  That you are what your chromosomes say you are.  The appeal of being intersex was that it would have absolved me of responsibility.  It was a way to make it not a choice.

I had similar fantasies about going to hospital for some minor surgery, like a gall bladder, and, through a mixup, waking up having had SRS.  Same explanation: avoiding responsibility.

It wasn't until I learned that being trans was not a choice, and that transition is a choice one makes to stop the pain, that I could move forward.

Yep, and my doctor agreed that doing a karyotype check would be a good idea.  I didn't develop a lot of the secondary sex characteristics that my father, uncles, brother, and male cousins all have.  Very little body hair, no adam's apple, very slight brow ridge, much smaller nose, far wider hips, etc...

But it turns out I'm just a developmental anomaly with a 46xy karyotype. 

PCOS is sometimes considered an intersex condition of your body's hormonal profile (if it isn't due to external factors like insulin levels or medications), depending on how it affects you. Well in my case it made me feel 100% like a dude for the days surrounding my ovulation, it possibly contributed to my masculinized facial features, mesomorph body type, and mild hirsutism - my leg hair game is strong lol. When I go do initial lab work for starting T it'll be interesting to see what my androgen levels actually are, though they're doubtlessly high for a cis female.

Did it make me trans? Maybe. And so what if it did?

Sure. When I was younger I looked for any reason I was the way I was other than being trans.  I never did test. I don't think a result either way would have changed my struggle or given any justification.

Bari Jo

I recently wrote an answer on Quora about how intersex and transgender are really two sides of the same coin, both being the result of atypical hormone levels during the time your prenatal development is taking place. Here it is, if anyone's interested:

https://www.quora.com/How-does-being-intersex-and-being-transgender-overlap-if-at-all/answer/Hugh-Easton-1

Doctors tend to base their definition of intersex purely around genital appearance, so if you're XX and  were born with female-looking genitals, or XY with male looking ones, that's it, you're not intersex as far as they're concerned. However the reality is that sex differences in the human body extend far beyond just the genitals, and can include things such as the endocrine system (e.g. PCOS in AFABs, hypogonadism in AMABs), as well as the brain of course!

Intersex also tends to get talked about purely in terms of genetic abnormalities, however (as I explain in that article), genes don't actually determine sex, all they do is determine whether you develop ovaries or testicles. The actual process of sex determination appears to be entirely hormone driven (or at least, I haven't found any solid evidence showing that it isn't). Experiments on animals show that exposure to external hormones during prenatal development can be a cause of intersex (or even complete sex reversal), without any genetic anomalies whatsoever being present. The fact that there are XX men and XY women shows that if genes do play a direct role in sex determination, it must be a very minor one.

Quote from: HughE on March 02, 2018, 01:49:18 PM
Experiments on animals show that exposure to external hormones during prenatal development can be a cause of intersex (or even complete sex reversal), without any genetic anomalies whatsoever being present. The fact that there are XX men and XY women shows that if genes do play a direct role in sex determination, it must be a very minor one.

That's cool!

As a kid I thought it was a possibility because I'd never heard of other non-binary people, and I definitely didn't feel like either binary gender. I also suspected that my parents totally would have hid the fact that I was born intersex if I had been, which is probably an accurate assessment to be honest.

But I don't really exhibit any signs of being intersex, and I'm well past the age where it would have shown up if it was going to. I've never actually been tested, and don't feel the desire at this point. As long as I'm not prevented from transitioning regardless, I don't really need a biological explanation for why I am the way I am. The fact that there are plenty of other non-intersex trans and non-binary people out there with the same experiences is enough for me to feel validated. 

It does feel like it would validate me, yes. As it stands I am not in any way physically male, and my parents know this. If I was intersex it would give me leverage because I wouldn't be making this up, my body would have other sex symptoms showing I am also male. In fact, I still feel as though there are things in my childhood hidden from me, like they forced my behavior to change, or that I was born a certain way and fixed...but this is all emotional speculation and I can't be sure.

I feel like a lot of trans people are curious about it and that having a physical condition would validate the sometimes esoteric feelings of gender and dysphoria but i also think that those of us who aren't/ likely aren't intersex should be careful not to fetishize intersex conditions, i've seen a bit of pushback from the actually-intersex community about it 

A few years ago, when I first started to identify as more emotionally feminine, I started having fantasies about being interesexed.  I have a funny little seam on my perenium that I started to tell myself was a surgery scar.  This was before I'd every seriously considered that I might be trans. 

It was a funny time in my life, where I was having serious emotional and relationship problems.  I think this fantasy provided me an imaginary way out, a reset button.  For whatever reason, having a physical excuse for my mental/emotional being was comforting because then it wasn't my fault.  It's amazing the sort of emotional and mental gymnastics I will perform. 

I would usually end up with a fantasy of being very angry with my parents for having made this imaginary decision for me, and robbing me of my true self.  But truly, I know I need to be able to accept myself for who I am, without some sort of external validation. 

I have a family member who was diagnosed with mosiacism in his sex chromosomes a couple years ago. Basically a certain percentage of his cells lack a Y chromosome and are effectively female. At the time I heard, I remember thinking, "I wonder if that is hereditary, because that would explain so much," since at the time I hadn't yet come to the realization that I was transgender.

I mentioned this to my wife as part of explaining how I feel when I came out to her a week ago and she asked if I wanted to get genetic testing. However, after accepting the fact that I was transgender I no longer care about the genetics... I know who I am now. Besides, I don't think mosiacism is typically hereditary anyways.

I never claimed to actually be intersexed until they identified anomalous organs inside me on ultrasound & mri.  Even though all my symptoms matched up with it, I still didn't claim it till I was fairly certain it was true.  Frankly I still haven't gotten a consistent diagnosis yet.. but there are way too many things that are obviously different about me at this point.

Keep in mind many intersexed have NO genetic component that has been identified.  Biological variances not always either.  Especially in the case of PAIS its a real slippery slope.  Then the more obvious ones like blind vaginas, mixed genitals, ammenorhea , no sexual development, etc.. are dead ringers usually.