There are still young Ts people not going stealth.... then again, some are... its down to the individual. i think the numbers of stealth will slowly fall as society accepts transsexuality as a normal medical problem that doesnt make the person any different to thier actual sex.... by that point, there wont be any need i guess.
R >

Yeah i live in the Bay Area, North Beach, SF to be exact (and I also spend half my time up north in Sonoma Country, which is also pretty liberal).  It might as well be the moon.  And yes, there are people who hate everywhere, but big cities do have a lot more people, who are a lot busier, and have better things to do for the most part.

Once you get used to it (and it can be just about anything) a lot of that fear, hate and novelty wears off. 

My university just passed its 'gender friendly' policy (my wording for the policy ^_^) and while a massive majority voted for it, 280 still went against... hate will never go away.
R >

They may have reasons other than just pure 'hate' - such a policy is a political policy, and can have people oppose it on political grounds.  They may have not found it inclusive enough, or too exclusive, or that it didn't go far enough, or have strong enough punishments attached.

And people have a right to like, or not like what things they choose.  I hate yuppies, but I don't key the Hummers when I pass by them.  Though I do stand there and laugh my ass off watching people try to park them.

tekla  that is fine as I said for the larger citys  but one has to relise that we are everywere in the world what would you have us do  sedergate (sp?) us to just a few citys   wouldnt that just be doing what is wanted   the city of the damed     wouldnt that be adding fule to the system   people need to be real we are every were and not all of us want to be forced to go were it is tolerated   isnt it the fact that most of us just want a normal life   for some it needs to be done in stealth  there will come a time that it will be more understood  but this is not the time  as  I said I am a country girl I like my horses I like the country pace (not a lot understand this is much slower)  the men are just that men and they are cute also. your right there are people that hate everywere  this is our curse I for one will not give in and be forced to live were I will not be happy a place that doesnt feel like I am at home   two many are forced to leave their famularty just because they took the steps to find exceptance of them selfs  is this fair    it is a nice dream that John Lennon had  but look at what happened   he did become a marter for the reason which is not a bad deal but look at  his son and his wife  and their life loss   look at the truth of our losses havent we lost enough sisters and brothers because they were trying to find exceptance in our world
TTFN
Kristin 

um... There are no punshments attached, it was merely a referenda to attach gender expression and identity to the unions gay friendly policy. That on union grounds, inollerance to a persons gender identity and expression will not be um, tollerated... point was it was hugely passed, a big step forwards... my point was that some people are and will always be intollerant...
in america there is still racism rife... good example

R >

Sociologically, there are two avoidant ways of dealing with stigma: passing and covering.  Where the stigma is cross-gender behavior, the ultimate form of passing is going stealth.  The usual form of covering is staying in the closet.  Both of these are avoidant because they do not deal with the stigma, but rather avoid dealing with it.  Avoidant behavior is almost always marked by sentences like, "I'm not ______."  We have all heard it in things like, "I'm not a transsexual.  I'm a woman."

Neither of these approaches is psychologically healthy because they involve a rejection of a part of the sense of self and a lowering of self-esteem.  Alternative to this, a person may accept the stigma in one of two ways.  One of them involves internalizing the stigma and labelling the self as deviant, with the consequent lowering of self-esteem.  The other alternative is to reinterpret the stigma and use it as a driving force to create change.  This does not result in lowered self-esteem, but rather the drive to remove society's stigmatizing of this characteristic.  The end result is someone who becomes an activist.

Most of the people in the world live in large cities.  Americans have been urban since 1920.  So large cities, not rural areas are the norm, and that is becoming more true all the time at that. 

If you could be reasonably free and safe (as safe as anyone else) in the Bay Area, Sacto, and LA/SD, then that is by far the majority of the people in California.  But there are people in here from Wyoming, so its not all an urban deal.  And I'm not proposing any sort of gay or trans ghetto, and as time goes on and things become more common a lot of that goes away.  SF once had three huge gay areas, the Castro, Polk Street, and the Folsom Street deal.  Now its pretty much down to the Castro, and at that, half of the people there now are straight.  Other than ->-bleeped-<-shack (which is sadly going away) there is not a huge TG scene, as you can pretty much go anywhere you want, there is no need for places are are exclusive.

What is so wrong with just living your life, without drawing attention to yourself.  Not everyone is an activist and needs to be in front of everyone's face.

Now it would be a problem if you ignored another transsexual who was in harms way, just to hide your status.

Sarah L.

Quote from: Lisbeth on March 12, 2008, 11:35:07 AM
The other alternative is to reinterpret the stigma and use it as a driving force to create change.  This does not result in lowered self-esteem, but rather the drive to remove society's stigmatizing of this characteristic.  The end result is someone who becomes an activist.

Great post Lisbeth! I like the approach of working toward eventually removing the societal stigma.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on March 12, 2008, 11:45:03 AM
What is so wrong with just living your life, without drawing attention to yourself.  Not everyone is an activist and needs to be in front of everyone's face.
Sarah L.

When I transitioned, friends asked why I had to draw attention to myself. I don't wear skirts to be an activist, I do it because it's the natural expression of my gender and I feel "right" when I wear certain clothing.

Z

Quote from: Sarah Louise on March 12, 2008, 11:45:03 AM
What is so wrong with just living your life, without drawing attention to yourself.  Not everyone is an activist and needs to be in front of everyone's face.

Now it would be a problem if you ignored another transsexual who was in harms way, just to hide your status.

Sarah L.

Good points Sarah......

Quote from: Lisbeth on March 12, 2008, 11:35:07 AM
Sociologically, there are two avoidant ways of dealing with stigma: passing and covering.  Where the stigma is cross-gender behavior, the ultimate form of passing is going stealth.  The usual form of covering is staying in the closet.  Both of these are avoidant because they do not deal with the stigma, but rather avoid dealing with it.  Avoidant behavior is almost always marked by sentences like, "I'm not ______."  We have all heard it in things like, "I'm not a transsexual.  I'm a woman."

Neither of these approaches is psychologically healthy because they involve a rejection of a part of the sense of self and a lowering of self-esteem.  Alternative to this, a person may accept the stigma in one of two ways.  One of them involves internalizing the stigma and labelling the self as deviant, with the consequent lowering of self-esteem.  The other alternative is to reinterpret the stigma and use it as a driving force to create change.  This does not result in lowered self-esteem, but rather the drive to remove society's stigmatizing of this characteristic.  The end result is someone who becomes an activist.

Dont know about you love, but i feel perfectly healthy identifying solely as a girl... no part of my perosnality is trans sex.... its not a part of who i am about as much as i dont define myself by the flu that kept me in bed 2 weeks ago.....
You are right, they are avoidance, but why do you HAVE to deal with stigma?
If you are only seen as your true gender, why should someone who identifys as that gender go around anouncing 'see im actually a guy under all this' which is what transsexual means to a large part of the public. whats the point? why does it matter? if they see a girl, you feel like a girl, why tell them different?

Thats my current tack... i dont tell them and they dont ask. nobody assumes im anything but a regular girl, i see little point in invalidating my identity by revealing something from my past that is nolonger relevant...
its like juvenile criminal records are expunged at 21... its no longer relevant, neither is that part of my past, it was wrong, its gone now... who i am is relevant, your friends with rachael the girl, not x the boy....
R >

Quote from: tekla on March 12, 2008, 11:40:55 AM
Most of the people in the world live in large cities.  Americans have been urban since 1920.  So large cities, not rural areas are the norm, and that is becoming more true all the time at that. 

If you could be reasonably free and safe (as safe as anyone else) in the Bay Area, Sacto, and LA/SD, then that is by far the majority of the people in California.  But there are people in here from Wyoming, so its not all an urban deal.  And I'm not proposing any sort of gay or trans ghetto, and as time goes on and things become more common a lot of that goes away.  SF once had three huge gay areas, the Castro, Polk Street, and the Folsom Street deal.  Now its pretty much down to the Castro, and at that, half of the people there now are straight.  Other than ->-bleeped-<-shack (which is sadly going away) there is not a huge TG scene, as you can pretty much go anywhere you want, there is no need for places are are exclusive.

The majority does not equal normal. Ask the people who fought Germany. Sometimes being human puts you in a very small minority. Beware of propaganda and marketing, perhaps large cities are the least enjoyable way to live.

Hi yah all,
Me myself, I don't believe in a universal right to know everything about other people, or others to know about me.   Like privacy.  Those people we have close relationships of any kind if they care may have a claim to a need to know about me being transgender and I have a need for them to know for me to beable to be myself.    Strangers who live in the neighborhood where I live may gain knowledge of my being transgender if I don't close my blinds and can be viewed in public.   Work doesn't have a need to know unless I have a need for them to know, like I go to work as a women.

Besides I am a stranger in a large city, so many people probably don't care, especially if they don't have to deal with me on a personal basis like I keep it to myself when I ride the city bus.   At sixty one, I might live another thirty years, but I as I become older most people don't really care about me, because I am becoming less of a use to society.   As I get older I am being treated more as helpless little old lady because of my age and not my gender identity so I might as well present myself as one.   I really feel myself starting to become transparent, except for the people I live with.

I chat with strangers, because my job makes it necessary, and I may need to give and get help in case of disaster large or small when I may need to cooperate with others to get us all out of the mess.    Then we don't have to talk for the rest of our natural lives, if we don't feel the need to.  The image of a bunch of city people sitting on a bus that is sinking into the river  thinking I can't talk to my neighbors, its not done, so we all drowned because we need each other to escape, a bit farsical.

People see what they see, and think what they think, about me what does it matter.   I have spent my life as a soldier in the war against ignorance in public schools.   Some people just can't ever be convinced that you have to borrow when you subtract and vow never to do so.  Only the calculator is a pill that over comes this malady.

I have spent my life trying to explain myself to people, and found that most people don't care.   So I surrender and only do it when it helps my survival.

Luv Michelle

Enough Michelle, you have

Lisbeth;

Thank you very much for this explanation.

On another note, the woman in this story below had no option of going 'stealth'.  She is a TV reporter covering a murder story, and was attacked because she's African American.  How do you 'stealth' that?



Karen

i think the fact that they were harrassing the family of a murder victim didnt help things...
R >

this just goes to show the ignorance of prople in general   people are so bent on hate that they cant except the reality of life   I as one will live the dont ask wont tell   unless there is a relationship with some one and then even then I will  even be scaired of the outcome    I will continue to make my self as invisible to the publics eyes as I can with out denieing who I am    and I will continue to live on my farm  were I feel as safe as I posibly can  I have excepted that no matter were we go we will never be safe (in this time)  but I will never feed into sedergation that would only feed the hate
Kristin