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Trump issues memo banning Trans servicepeople....

Started by mako9802, March 23, 2018, 09:06:22 PM

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mako9802

Here we go again....keep on adding fuel to the fire....Its on CNn now
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itsApril

#1
White House announces policy to ban most transgender persons from serving in military

cnn.com
By Sophie Tatum
Updated 9:40 PM ET, Fri March 23, 2018

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/23/politics/transgender-white-house/index.html

"(CNN)The White House on Friday announced a policy to ban most transgender persons from serving in the US military.

"Following a long review of a policy following a tweet by President Donald Trump last year, the White House said the policy will say 'transgender persons with a history or diagnosis of gender dysphoria -- individuals who the policies state may require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery -- are disqualified from military service except under certain limited circumstances.'"

* * *

When you elect this kind of guy, you get this kind of policy.

Sad.
-April
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Deborah

Someone here will be by shortly to reassure us that Trump is the most pro-LGBT President ever.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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Elli.P

Served 22 years in Air Force. This is just sad. What's even worse is I have never been ashamed to be an American until Trump took office. My heart is breaking for our country everyday!
[emoji24]
Started Laser hair removal: 15 Nov 2014
Came out to Wife: 30 June 2015
Joined Susan's Place: July 18, 2015
Started growing out hair: 5 Jan 2016
Started HRT: 8 July 2017
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AnneK

If there was ever anyone unfit to be president...

Well, the mid terms will be here soon.  Hopefully there will be enough Democrats to rein him in.
I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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natalie.ashlyne

Quote from: Deborah on March 23, 2018, 09:52:49 PM
Someone here will be by shortly to reassure us that Trump is the most pro-LGBT President ever.


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Well isn't he just as Nixon was not a crook. Glad I am Canadian 
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AnneK

Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on March 23, 2018, 10:16:20 PM
Well isn't he just as Nixon was not a crook. Glad I am Canadian

Nixon has nothing on Trump, when it comes to being incompetent.  Other than Watergate, he wasn't a bad president overall.

I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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Alanna1990

hhmmmm... I dunno, I know everybody is free to do whatever, but for me, it was a blessing to not have to serve in the army when my legal name change happened, I was so scared of being deployed, so when I was finally able to destroy my military ID card I felt so free... (I live in Mexico, here things are a little different than there in America).

He doesn't have any right to decide who wants to serve and who doesn't, I just wanted to tell my personal feelings about it.
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Cassi

This is really old news.  Fact is that Trump's decision and mandate was overturned. 

As far as Trump goes, I would always prefer to have information on an adversary's next move than have them sneak up and stab me in the back or worse.


HRT since 1/04/2018
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Deborah

Not  old news.  This is a new order issued today.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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Cassi

And it will be shot down just like the old one.
HRT since 1/04/2018
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Cindy

When topics just end up bashing people, no matter who it is, then they are against the Terms of Service and end up being locked and removed.


So let us please comment on this topic and not bashing the politicians behind it. No matter the temptation.

Cindy
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Susan

Posted these comments on the subject to Twitter...


I served, and many others have served while being #transgender going all the way back to the revolution war, not been any problems yet! This is #DontAskDontTell Redux and it is just as #unconstitutional. #TransBan

According to the DOD Health Agency, the military spent $41.6 million on Viagra, and $84.24 million total on erectile dysfunction drugs last year. Allowing #transgender people to serve would cost $2-$8 million if the government provided them with hormones and reassignment surgery

You know if @realDonaldTrump gave up 4 golf outings over the course of a year, it would more than pay the cost for providing full transition treatment for every #transgender soldier in the country for a year. #TransBan

Or he could forego his military parade and cover the costs for about 5 years.
Susan Larson
Founder
Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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TonyaW

It's all about keeping the evangelicals focused on their hatred for LGBT folks.

Got to distract them from his behavior.
Coincidence that Stormy Daniels on 60 Minutes Sunday?

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AutumnGurl81

I think that the policy change could have been a lot worse to be honest. There are some things that Mr Mattis pointed which are true about military service. You don't do it because you expect something in return, you do it because you want to serve, and those who do SHOULD know that--inherintly, they become "government property." Now, I don't believe we are anyone's property, however, when you sign that contract you belong to the government regardless of you're personal feelings and needs. The military institution was designed to be a war machine, not a stop and let's fix everybodies problems shop.

I do understand the complexity of this issue, and I don't necessarily agree with this policy in it's entirety, but it also clearly states if you are trans, you may join but you won't receive treatment and must serve in your biological sex. So then we sacrifice our freedoms as a human to do a service for this country. For those who've served, all in different jobs and branches, you know that self sacrifice is the one constant in an ever-changing military institution.

The policy does offer continued care for trans people serving and doesn't abandon those who have been serving, it now just limits the options of those looking to join, more or less. GRS not being available, well honestly there have only been a handful of trans people who were approved prior to this policy. In my humble opinion, I believe this is something that should be done outside of military service, as it is both physically and emotionally demanding as well as time consuming when it comes to the recovery process. As I understand it, for mtf, top surgery is still an option for those who will be grandfathered.

Also, I have to ask, have there ever been any trans people who joined soley to attain gender care? I can understand wanting it so bad that some may do so, but what happens once your needs are taken care of and you realize you want nothing to do with the military anymore? A place that was not meant for a day of calling in sick, for someone to listen to your hurt feelings because you don't want to get up at 3am and work through the next day. Those are almost insignificant examples of what some people endure throughout their time in.

Again, I'm not for or against this policy change, but look at the facts. Keep in mind that the recommendations came from Jim Mattis, and that he's not just some whimsickle politician, he put his time in as well. Honestly, I'm glad they are AT LEAST going to continue supporting trans troops from a medical standpoint, and honor their service as they would any CIS person. It could've been much worse.

These are my thoughts unrelated to the Trump administration and more directly related to military service.

Hopefully, one day, there will be a point we're we've figured all of this out and everyone can coexist and work equally, unfortunately as far I can tell, and history is concerned, we weren't built this way. But as we know, there are many many issues with equality in this wolrd we live in, let alone the USA, plenty of which go unnoticed depending on where, and who you are.
~°•Peace, love, compassion, and eqaulity. I believe that these qualities make us great. They can't be measured on a scale, only shared freely.•°~

-Jayden  :-*
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Michelle_P

There are over 100,000 transgender veterans alive right now, who did not expect to receive transition care, who served well and honorably.

I served honorably. Chief Kristin Beck served honorably. None of us needed regulations to keep us in our place, to make us second class citizens, or to declare us unfit or less than human.

None of these restrictive policies are necessary. None of them improve military readiness.

Transgender people have served with honor, for decades.  We proudly and patriotically volunteered to serve in our nations armed forces, and we feel this assault doubly on our identity, on who we are.  Our brothers, our sisters, our family and allies have been targeted.  We know the price of freedom, and this test of our freedom and resolve cannot be allowed to pass.

I was a transgender person in the US Navy, not out, but a dedicated and patriotic person there to serve my country and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign AND domestic.

Being transgender but not out made life considerably harder.

Sharon Brown, a Navy veteran now working as director of human resources at the Los Angeles LGBT Center described this.  "You're less productive, you're always on guard," she explained. "It takes a lot of energy to hide who you are when that energy could be used for other things. When you can be open, you're much happier, you're much more engaged. The sun truly comes up when you're allowed to be who you are and it's shining all day long because you can actually serve as your authentic self and be proud of who you are."

I worked very hard, as many trans military members do, and like many other trans folks, was an overachiever.  I was in the Navy Nuclear Power Program, and I impressed the staff sufficiently that I was asked to stay on for two years as an instructor after I completed the Nuclear Power Schools.  Following that tour, I was assigned to a submarine, one of the most decorated boats in the fleet, and crewed by more overachievers.  And yes, as I found out years later, that included several other trans folks.  I racked up more awards.

I received the Navy Achievement Medal, several presidential citations and command citations.  I completed a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics.  My crew was awarded the Nave Expeditionary Medal for our mission performance, along with the Battle 'E' and Engineering 'E.  Besides my primary Engineering duties, I took on duties in the fire control racking party, damage control party, and was assistant ship's photographer, recording mission data and assembling media for reports to COMSUBPAC.  I was the Engineering Dept 3M Coordinator, overseeing all maintenance and care for the nuclear power plant, engines and support systems.

Trans folks tend to be driven overachievers.  (Just ask anyone who knows me...)  We work hard to try and be accepted, far harder than those born with their assigned sex and gender identity in line, because we really do have something we need to prove.

We trans folks are among the best and brightest in the service.  And yet, our president thinks that discarding us is just fine, because we don't meet some ideological purity test.  He thinks that discarding us is doing the military a favor!

We are people like Kristin Beck, the first former Navy SEAL to come out as transgender.
We are people like Carla Lewis, brilliant, yet when it was discovered that she had sought help with gender identity issues, was cast out of the Air Force.

We are people like Emma Shin, who served from 1994 to 2014 in six deployments in the Marine Corps, including a combat posting in Fallujah, Iraq as an infantry platoon captain.

We are people like Paula Neira, a nurse and an attorney, who served for 10 years in the US Navy, and more recently was chosen as one of the experts to be consulted by the military as part of the 2016 decision to allow open service for transgender Americans.

We need these thousands of our best and brightest.  We need their skills, determination, and tenacity.

Oh, the expense!

A report by the Rand Corporation, which was commissioned by the Pentagon, states that having transgender members of the armed forces would not compromise military readiness, ability to deploy or require a significant increase in health care costs. According to the report, there are approximately 1,320 to 6,600 active transgender service members. Of those, only a fraction — between 29 and 129 — would be expected to seek transition-specific medical care annually. This would cost an estimated $2.4 million to $8.4 million a year, an amount that will have "little impact" on overall military health expenditures, according to the report.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1500/RR1530/RAND_RR1530.pdf

The report is quite detailed, at 112 pages, and is worth a read if you happen to be a policy wonk.

There are probably around 15,000 transgender service members if we include active reserves, and around 150,000 transgender people if we include veterans.  That's a lot of people to tick off.  That's a lot of dedicated folks to replace and train.

When these service personnel are honorably discharged the expense does not disappear, but simply shift to the Veterans Administration.  There is no real savings.  Note that trying to make being out as a transgender person an event worthy of a dishonorable discharge with a presidential memorandum would be an unconstitutional breach of Article 1 Section 18 of the US Constitution, as all judicial changes for the military are powers assigned to Congress by the constitution.

The expense really is pretty small.  The budget for Viagra tablets is several times the expected cost of gender confirmation surgeries.   Very few persons will receive this surgery in any given year.  Most transgender people never seek out gender confirmation surgery, but find other medical treatments such as hormone replacement therapy to be sufficient.

The impact on readiness argument is similarly foolish.  Very few persons will receive this surgery in any given year. The Rand study estimated the possibility of 30 to 140 new hormone treatments a year in the military, with 25 to 130 gender transition-related surgeries among active service members annually. Following gender confirmation surgery the military member is ready for light duty in about 2 months, and deployable after 6 to 8 months.  Compare this with a torn and surgically repaired anterior cruciate ligament, or ACL, a common knee injury which would have a three month recovery time and include physical therapy before the soldier could be deployed.

The expense to recruit a replacement for the discharged service member is about $75,000.  The training cost may be an additional $100,000 to $1,000,000.  Think about it.  Building and operating a nuclear power plant for the purpose of training 200 people a year is not cheap, but there is no way to gain that experience with classroom work and simulations.
A new report from Palm Center, the public policy planning group, states that the cost of replacing troops is about one hundred times the cost of providing their medical care.

http://www.palmcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/cost-of-firing-trans-troops-3.pdf


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Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Cassi

Trump's ban was one of the reasons I started the draft thread.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  If trans have to register for the draft with failing to do so resulting in a possible $250,000, what sense does it make to ban transgender people.

Eventually, the emotional or bias will disappear and common sense should prevail and this is directed at Trump and folks with the same mindset.
HRT since 1/04/2018
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AutumnGurl81

#18
Quote from: Cassi on March 24, 2018, 03:08:27 PM
Trump's ban was one of the reasons I started the draft thread.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  If trans have to register for the draft with failing to do so resulting in a possible $250,000, what sense does it make to ban transgender people.

Eventually, the emotional or bias will disappear and common sense should prevail and this is directed at Trump and folks with the same mindset.

Then per the policy, they would be registered but automatically disqualified as well.

Quote from: Michelle_P on March 24, 2018, 03:03:15 PM
There are over 100,000 transgender veterans alive right now, who did not expect to receive transition care, who served well and honorably.

I served honorably. Chief Kristin Beck served honorably. None of us needed regulations to keep us in our place, to make us second class citizens, or to declare us unfit or less than human.

None of these restrictive policies are necessary. None of them improve military readiness.

Transgender people have served with honor, for decades.  We proudly and patriotically volunteered to serve in our nations armed forces, and we feel this assault doubly on our identity, on who we are.  Our brothers, our sisters, our family and allies have been targeted.  We know the price of freedom, and this test of our freedom and resolve cannot be allowed to pass.

Yes, this is true. Many trans service members do/did great things, many also accepted the responsibilities of their position, job, rank and concerned themselves with responsibilities to duty without concern for transition. Some don't even realize they're trans until after they've been in for quite some time. Some just "deal with it." I'm sure when you served the option to receive transition care wasn't even a fart in the wind, and for most, it wasn't until very recently. So people served because they wanted to, or for whatever personal aspirations they had--perhaps even a distraction from who they were (Sona Avedian).

Also, there is a difference between someone tearing their ACL in training or combat and having to recover, and someone who is choosing to undergo a life changing procedure.

The military is built on discipline, instant obedience to orders, and being masterful at everything that one does. It is built on one troops ability to fight, protect, train and mentor the troops to their left and right; and in-turn for those on the left and right to be capable of the same. So ideally, those joining need to be stable in who they are and understand what they are getting into, which we could argue--who really does until they are in the face of "it."

The statistical research and financial data provided is just a blanket that people need for justification. Anyone who has served would know that the military is ALWAYS over spending, or "struggling" to get what they need because of budget problems.

I still believe there are quite a few variables which haven't been accounted for on either end of this argument. Lets shift to woman in the infantry, entirely different set of circumstances, but arguably as complex and infuriating for some. I don't think anyone will ever be fully satisfied with the decisions being made, and we can only hope to offer influence in places that will help improve these circumstances.

The concern is human rights, and that all are equal, yet all do not serve or live in an equal capacity. If we are all equal then why should we kill or condemn someone for murdering another person if that's who they are? Yes, this is an extreme end of the argument, but my point is that, from a military standpoint its an start and end date of service, and your life priorities quickly lose importance in the eyes of the military/country. Those who've been there can attest to this, that they've experienced or seen family emergencies (to say the least) which troops couldn't tend to due to training, or deployment. I'm not saying its right, I'm saying that a lot of people get shafted during their time in because the military doesnt care about your personal problems, they just want you to do your job.

This, in my opinion, is more of a band-ade to a longterm issue which still hasnt been properly addressed or intergrated into the government system. Acceptance is a global issue, as is ignorance.

And lets not forget, we trans people can barely gain a foothold of normalcy in our everyday American/global society. There's so many issues to tackle, and I don't have the answers, but perhaps at times we should focus in one problem area and refine it before officially moving onto another. To live a "free" life outside of the military without discrimination, that would be a great victory.

For those who haven't read the policy.

Military-Service-By-Transgender-Individuals-Interim-Guidance.pdf on defense.gov

Note: It doesn't say you can't serve openly.

EDIT: Have to add-in it also doesn't show the complete policy letter, couldn't find that link, saved the PDF on my phone though.

~°•Peace, love, compassion, and eqaulity. I believe that these qualities make us great. They can't be measured on a scale, only shared freely.•°~

-Jayden  :-*
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Deborah

Frankly, I'm beginning to think of my years of service to the USA as a monumental waste of a life.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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