The problem with a draft right now would be the same problem that is plaguing recruitment.  Americans in general are in such poor physical condition that only a small minority are even able bodied enough to join.  So of those that want to join many are disqualified.  That's not my opinion but a well known and published fact.  In previous eras we didn't have this issue as the general population was in much better condition and health.


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Quote from: Deborah on March 22, 2018, 01:20:23 AM
The problem with a draft right now would be the same problem that is plaguing recruitment.  Americans in general are in such poor physical condition that only a small minority are even able bodied enough to join.  So of those that want to join many are disqualified.  That's not my opinion but a well known and published fact.  In previous eras we didn't have this issue as the general population was in much better condition and health.


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From my experience of the draft from the 60s and early 70s, kinda think of the Bill Murray movie Stripes.  That along with "Jail or Military" options coming back.  Cold hard fact is that when the ->-bleeped-<- hits the fan, bodies are what counted back then.  If a person is really not that bright they'll most likely become a statistic.  Sad to sad.  On the bright side, technology has advanced so much that a major war most likely wouldn't last very long. 

"When I was young things seemed soooo much simpler then"

I still say that everyone no matter what. In a bad situation then you are needed whether LGBT or straight male and female. The workd has changed so much since the Vietnam "war" even thought it was pretty much like Korea and not called a "war" but those that fought can't distinguish what politicians call it.

This is what gets me about the whole situation. A few or Kings, Queens, Bishops and Knights and the rest of us are just pawns on the board. Well I am just another pawn but that would be Ms. Pawn.

What is sad is like someone else said and that is a lot of younger kids can't even join because of weight issues and so on. I mean one qualification in Reception was 5 pushups and 5 sit ups and even then there were people that could not even manage that. I was 21 and the requirement for PT was 50 and 50 and a two mile run in 15:50 just to graduate basic. Then the same in AIT and pretty much throughout my service. Actually I can't remember the actual time on the run but you could actually walk fast for the first mile and run back and pass. I used to just jog at a faster pace and passed. Two miles is a long way though for kids to run now days. The run always sucked because it was after the pushups and sit ups. I come close to maxing the run before PLDC other than that I just passed it.

But when it comes to Signing up for Selective Service then everyone should have to sign up for it at the age of 18. But that is just my opinion though.

Quote from: Jenntrans on March 22, 2018, 01:46:41 PM
I still say that everyone no matter what. In a bad situation then you are needed whether LGBT or straight male and female. The workd has changed so much since the Vietnam "war" even thought it was pretty much like Korea and not called a "war" but those that fought can't distinguish what politicians call it.

This is what gets me about the whole situation. A few or Kings, Queens, Bishops and Knights and the rest of us are just pawns on the board. Well I am just another pawn but that would be Ms. Pawn.

What is sad is like someone else said and that is a lot of younger kids can't even join because of weight issues and so on. I mean one qualification in Reception was 5 pushups and 5 sit ups and even then there were people that could not even manage that. I was 21 and the requirement for PT was 50 and 50 and a two mile run in 15:50 just to graduate basic. Then the same in AIT and pretty much throughout my service. Actually I can't remember the actual time on the run but you could actually walk fast for the first mile and run back and pass. I used to just jog at a faster pace and passed. Two miles is a long way though for kids to run now days. The run always sucked because it was after the pushups and sit ups. I come close to maxing the run before PLDC other than that I just passed it.

But when it comes to Signing up for Selective Service then everyone should have to sign up for it at the age of 18. But that is just my opinion though.

Totally agree with you Jenn.  War and bullets don't discriminate.

I never registered for it.

$250,000 is a lot of money

I like the idea of mandatory service for all with an option to serve in a non combat role.

The military themselves know the benefit of the all volunteer force. Every person there wants to be there. The draft is the last thing commanders want.

I had been in the Corps for 2 years when they drafted the last person:

On June 30, 1973, Archie Turner was the last known person drafted into the US Army. Though he did not choose to join the Army, he chose to stay. He retired in 2004 as a Sergeant Major and senior military adviser in the Defense Logistics Agency.

Back then, there were two schools of thought, one being that the elimination of the draft could lead to an all volunteer force becoming mercenaries and the second having draftees would ensure that democracy would survive because draftees wouldn't do the merc thing.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 22, 2018, 06:07:51 PM
I like the idea of mandatory service for all with an option to serve in a non combat role.

The military themselves know the benefit of the all volunteer force. Every person there wants to be there. The draft is the last thing commanders want.

Unfortunately some people are telling high school students that those that join the military are losers that can't do anything else. That is sad.

We truly are the one percenters. We have put ourselves through a bunch of BS to make sure that Americans can sleep safe, work and have normal jobs. at 5 AM I was doing PT or running. Sometimes at 3 AM.

I remember "working" 92 hours straight. If not me then how the hell else would have done it? Yes one percent of the population would and still does and I thank them profusely. Hell most kids now days can't get through the BS PT test at Reception which was only 5 pushups and 5 sit ups. That is sad. I have who nephews that can't.

I mean it ain't even a male or female thing. When I served there were plenty of women that could hit the 300 meter pop up better than a lot if not most men. Hell I am a "sissy" and fired expert every time on the range.

Unfortunately now it seems that higher education is a better option but what better option is there than learning how to deal with a totally different culture to actually learn?

I totally agree with you Devlyn. At least two years for mandatory service and then the kids may learn a little respect before college. Whip them into shape and put them in their place either combat or non combat roles. Other countries do it and if the US did they may appreciate it more what we have done and sacrificed.

That high school teacher who's the mayor of some small town is a jerk and the one who was telling students that people in the service are that.

I'm a Vietnam Vet and I still have issues with being spit on and it's a 50/50 thing when someone tells me thank you for your service.  What makes it worse are the fakers who never served pretending they're veterans. 

Like you mentioned, PT at 0500 but also the fact that 24/7 52 weeks a year until the day you get out, you really don't know what's going to happen the next day.




*No Profanity Please*

I must've misread what Devlyn said. I thought when she said some kind of service should be mandatory, but not combat, that she had some kind of community work in mind. Or forward to the armed services if that's your passion and you are physically fit enough. I can see the benefits of that, but not of mandatory involvement with the military itself.

From young people I see, they tend to have no deficit of 'respect' and don't need 'whipping into shape'.

Quote from: Cassi on April 02, 2018, 05:02:53 PM
That high school teacher who's the mayor of some small town is a jerk and the one who was telling students that people in the service are that.

I'm a Vietnam Vet and I still have issues with being spit on and it's a 50/50 thing when someone tells me thank you for your service.  What makes it worse are the fakers who never served pretending they're veterans. 

Like you mentioned, PT at 0500 but also the fact that 24/7 52 weeks a year until the day you get out, you really don't know what's going to happen the next day.

Yeah it sux Cassi. Most people now mean it. But I am usually skeptical of those that were spitting on you guys coming back from Vietnam. You know the type.

->-bleeped-<- I did PT for 20 hours straight a few times and signed up for that too. Sitting in the surf, freezing your ass off with sand getting all in you, walking swamps with all kind of reptiles that can kill you. Swimming in water with alligators, caiman and even crocodiles.

After basic PT for me could be 2200 hours to 0500 hours and maybe 1700 to 0500. If you failed then you failed but you never gave up. SEALs ring the bell when they want to drop out. We had no bell and just went back to our MOSs and that was that.

I volunteered but served my time. I have an honorable discharge and served my whole time in South Korea and that is about it.

Being a Marine was enough for me, lol. 

The only good thing about PT, or PFT was if you had a hangover you didn't after 3 miles

Quote from: Cassi on April 02, 2018, 05:02:53 PM
I'm a Vietnam Vet and ...
What makes it worse are the fakers who never served pretending they're veterans. 

Me too. The Korean vets came home to apathy, but we Viet Nam vets were despised.
Now that times are different, we have too many fakers. Some of their stories make me laugh. Total fabrication.

There are many u-tube videos on how to spot a fake veteran. It is called "Stolen Valor". Just search for "stolen valor" the next time you are on U-tube.

Quote from: Dani on April 02, 2018, 10:52:28 PM
Me too. The Korean vets came home to apathy, but we Viet Nam vets were despised.
Now that times are different, we have too many fakers. Some of their stories make me laugh. Total fabrication.

There are many u-tube videos on how to spot a fake veteran. It is called "Stolen Valor". Just search for "stolen valor" the next time you are on U-tube.

Thanks Dani,

I'm familiar with Stolen Valor.  When I moved from California to Texas, I went to a couple of stores with a friend of mine.  She'd asked the clerks if there was a senior's discount and some had it and some didn't.  At one where they didn't did, she asks "Well, do you have any discounts?" and the clerk replied military/veteran.  She was doing it basically to tease me on being older than her.  Anyway, I would present my VA ID and get the discount.  When I moved to Vegas, I went into a Lowe's Hardware which had a discount in Texas and they asked me to complete a form which verified veteran's status because too many "Stolen Valors" we taking advantage of the service. 

Quote from: Dani on April 02, 2018, 10:52:28 PM
Me too. The Korean vets came home to apathy, but we Viet Nam vets were despised.
Now that times are different, we have too many fakers. Some of their stories make me laugh. Total fabrication.

There are many u-tube videos on how to spot a fake veteran. It is called "Stolen Valor". Just search for "stolen valor" the next time you are on U-tube.

Those Stolen Valor people are really easy to spot.  Besides screwing up the uniform if they are wearing one they don't know the language and frankly just give off the wrong vibe.  I ran into one once that began to tell me stories of his Special Forces adventures in Vietnam.  He was obviously fake so I simply asked him when he had been to Ft. Benning.  He said he had never heard of that place; an impossible answer for someone in the Army, particularly Special Forces.  Mostly I just felt really embarrassed for that person.

The YouTube video of the "fat" Soldier from the Ranger Regiment demonstrated both how sad these people are and how out of touch they are with real Soldiers (& Airmen, Sailors, Marines).  There is simply no such thing as a fat active duty Ranger.  It doesn't exist.  Seeing that fool was as disconcerting as it would be seeing a unicorn walking down the street.

Quote from: Cassi on April 02, 2018, 06:25:36 PM
Being a Marine was enough for me, lol. 

The only good thing about PT, or PFT was if you had a hangover you didn't after 3 miles

The only thing a hangover got you in my company was the leeway to fall out and puke.  But you'd better catch back up really fast or you'd be doing PT again that evening. (True story; it wasn't me and he did catch up)


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Quote from: Deborah on April 03, 2018, 03:27:29 AM
The only thing a hangover got you in my company was the leeway to fall out and puke.  But you'd better catch back up really fast or you'd be doing PT again that evening. (True story; it wasn't me and he did catch up)


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They make you do stuff even when you're sick? That's really mean and awful!

Quote from: Julia1996 on April 03, 2018, 09:12:27 AM
They make you do stuff even when you're sick? That's really mean and awful!

That kind of sick is self induced so . . . No mercy.  It also builds extreme mental hardness which is a good thing in the Infantry.  You learn that the power of the mind overcomes much physical discomfort. It also might give them second thoughts about drinking that much again, or at least too often.

For real sick though they go see the medics and get medicine and excused from duty to get well if needed.

Quote from: Deborah on April 03, 2018, 03:27:29 AM
The only thing a hangover got you in my company was the leeway to fall out and puke.  But you'd better catch back up really fast or you'd be doing PT again that evening. (True story; it wasn't me and he did catch up)


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LOL, no one ever dropped out to puke with a hangover   On the run.....