(FTM pre everything but out now and scheduled to start T)

Ok, I am sure I am not the only one getting these comment.
"Gender is a range anyway, why do you have to transition, you can just be a woman and be yourself"
"What is being a man supposed to give you, you can do anything like a man"

What is THE answer that will explain it? I am so tired of not being understood. It feels like being misunderstood in such a basic way, it is painful. That pain doesn't let me think well - so, what do you say?

In that situation I would try to get them to understand that our brains have prenatally gender dimorphic regions and that our minds respond to the correct hormone for the way our brains were wired. Gender is a spectrum but is not fully a social construct. Gender has a biological basis in our brains in the way we think and feel. In how we integrate feelings into thoughts, and in our very base human instincts. If you have a masculine wired brain, being female is uncomfortable and is simply not who you are.

Science proved the theory of how prenatal hormone exposure changes our brains neural wiring a long time ago. One of the oldest published proof study was in the Royal Society of London's, Biology journal in 1970. They knew is all mammals that some brain regions had different structures in males and females. This study was one that proved prenatal androgen exposure was required to "masculinize" the mammalian brain. They did not understand the complex set of events that all went into it at the time, as in the role each chemical signal plays with respect to particular genes and cell reception, but they knew testosterone was the driver.

This is known scientific fact today. It has been shown over and over again. Today researchers study the fine details and have a decent timeline for the major dimorphic developmental stages. Others have shown behavior differences by blocking or applying androgen hormones and that those prenatal changes to the brain are permanent.

Good luck. Some people will refuse to believe science no matter the evidence.

One response that I have heard of, though I haven't had an opportunity to try it myself, is to have the other person imagine that they have woken up in the other gender.  Say you are trying to explain it to a woman.  You might say...

"Imagine you woke up one morning with a penis.  You have testicles.  Your breasts and vagina are gone.  Nothing else is changed.  You are still you.  You still have your job and all your abilities.  In fact, it is time to get up and go to work now.  How would you feel about that, going to work in a man's body?  Picking up groceries on the way home in a man's body?  Meeting your friends in a man's body?"

Obviously, reverse the genders if you are talking to a man.

This example makes people put themselves in your shoes, and helps them to realize that being trans is not something you do; it's about who you are.

They don't view you as a man but as a woman who just "wants" to be a man for whatever reason by the sound of it. Unless you've got a lot of patience, trying to justify yourself could be a waste of time. Besides which, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone but the medical practitioners that gatekeep the transition process.

There's this quote from RDJ, least I think it's attributed to him that comes in handy in life. It goes like this:

"Listen, smile, agree... and then do whatever the hell you were going to do anyway."

In other words, some people and their opinions are completely irrelevant.

Quote from: Kylo on April 10, 2018, 07:21:09 AM
They don't view you as a man but as a woman who just "wants" to be a man for whatever reason by the sound of it. Unless you've got a lot of patience, trying to justify yourself could be a waste of time. Besides which, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone but the medical practitioners that gatekeep the transition process.

I agree.  That's the current status quo with my mom.  She views me as a man who wants to express himself as a woman.   I've tried to talk to her about it basically told me she is ignoring that aspect of me.  She doesn't want to hear it.

So as for advice on how to change their minds.  That's a revelation they have to make and unfortunately it takes time.

Thank you, that was super helpful!!

Quote from: josie76 on April 10, 2018, 06:49:18 AM
In that situation I would try to get them to understand that our brains have prenatally gender dimorphic regions and that our minds respond to the correct hormone for the way our brains were wired. Gender is a spectrum but is not fully a social construct. Gender has a biological basis in our brains in the way we think and feel. In how we integrate feelings into thoughts, and in our very base human instincts. If you have a masculine wired brain, being female is uncomfortable and is simply not who you are.

Science proved the theory of how prenatal hormone exposure changes our brains neural wiring a long time ago. One of the oldest published proof study was in the Royal Society of London's, Biology journal in 1970. They knew is all mammals that some brain regions had different structures in males and females. This study was one that proved prenatal androgen exposure was required to "masculinize" the mammalian brain. They did not understand the complex set of events that all went into it at the time, as in the role each chemical signal plays with respect to particular genes and cell reception, but they knew testosterone was the driver.

This is known scientific fact today. It has been shown over and over again. Today researchers study the fine details and have a decent timeline for the major dimorphic developmental stages. Others have shown behavior differences by blocking or applying androgen hormones and that those prenatal changes to the brain are permanent.

Good luck. Some people will refuse to believe science no matter the evidence.

Thank you. I think that's a great short cut. And it matches what it feels like. Like, nothing is WRONG (as in ethically wrong, wrong for anything you want to do), but it still feels wrong.

Quote from: KathyLauren on April 10, 2018, 07:07:08 AM
This example makes people put themselves in your shoes, and helps them to realize that being trans is not something you do; it's about who you are.

Quote from: Kylo on April 10, 2018, 07:21:09 AM
They don't view you as a man but as a woman who just "wants" to be a man for whatever reason by the sound of it. Unless you've got a lot of patience, trying to justify yourself could be a waste of time. Besides which, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone but the medical practitioners that gatekeep the transition process.

There's this quote from RDJ, least I think it's attributed to him that comes in handy in life. It goes like this:

"Listen, smile, agree... and then do whatever the hell you were going to do anyway."

In other words, some people and their opinions are completely irrelevant.

So I guess I now have three options in my tool kit: (1) quote science (2) refer to "what would you do in an opposite gender's body and (3) ignore.

Works.

Quote from: Kylo on April 10, 2018, 07:21:09 AM
"Listen, smile, agree... and then do whatever the hell you were going to do anyway."

I definitely agree. My family has a lot to say .. in my mind I'm on a bikini in Malibu. It's just a noisy day on the beach, but it'll go away soon enough [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Okay, I'm MTF, but the same concept applies. Why don't I just stay a man and be myself? Because "myself" is female and trying to be male has always been an act and performance of hypocrisy for me. People with no understanding of gender dysphoria can't comprehend that our outward anatomy doesn't define who we are, and is in fact at odds with who we are.

Imagine if somebody had some congenital birth defect that caused them be born with three arms. They lived for, let's say 20 years with a third arm, hating it every day. It is cumbersome, feels ugly, and the surgical technology to remove it is readily available. Yet people keep telling this person "Why can't you just accept that you were meant to be a three armed person and embrace your three-armed-ness?".

No reasonable person would expect a person with unwanted appendages to live with them. Yet if a transgender person says that their anatomy as it developed biologically causes them distress, they are somehow crazy.

I agree with you AND I'd love to find an example that works better. Like where there is nothing "wrong". For instance, what comes close is the story of a white woman who finds out she is 1/4 black and never knew. But she had no dysphoria until she found out. I totally get what you mean. Idk, I just want an example that doesn't side track people into other discussions. If anyone knows of one, I'd like to hear it.

I usually just roll my eyes  and ignore the question.
It's not usually worth the discussion. They're not going to change their minds.

So I got nothing new to add.

When I first came out I had a few ( about 4 or 5) female friends and family say why would you want to be a female, I would choose to be a male. I would reply, it is not a choice, it is who I am. I am just letting everyone else see who I am because otherwise it hurts too much.

Cis do not feel gender dysphoria and they have no reference for the pain it causes and that it is life threatening and causes poor choice coping mechanisms and suicidal ideation. They have no idea that transition can end dysphoria which is at the root of an internal conflict. A conflict between being ourselves or being someone else for their convenience. 

So to answer your question, what is wrong just being myself and not "like" anyone else? Ask them if they are themselves or "like anyone else"? Why would you want me to be like anyone else?

Hey dude,

Just thought up this snarky comment as a response

I would, if I was. But I'm not, so I won't.

And keep in mind, only crazy people argue with stoopid


(Hugs)


Rowan

I think the easiest answer is to explain that it's physical, not mental. You were simply born with, essentially, a pretty major birth defect. Your genitalia is just... wrong. Nobody would tell someone with webbed fingers to just "be themselves" rather than have it surgically corrected. In my mind, there's no difference between the two. You were just born into an improper body.

Quote from: Teddy79 on April 10, 2018, 06:07:12 AM
(FTM pre everything but out now and scheduled to start T)

Ok, I am sure I am not the only one getting these comment.
"Gender is a range anyway, why do you have to transition, you can just be a woman and be yourself"
"What is being a man supposed to give you, you can do anything like a man"

What is THE answer that will explain it? I am so tired of not being understood. It feels like being misunderstood in such a basic way, it is painful. That pain doesn't let me think well - so, what do you say?

Hello Teddy

First I am sorry to be pessimistic but many people will not accept us as they simply do not understand and may not wish to understand. However we must keep trying to educate them.

My answer would be that their suggestion is impossible as you are NOT STAYING as you ARE ALREADY a man just as I am already a woman. Gender is not determined by the body - it just happens that in most cases biological sex and gender match. In some cases - ours- they don't. Gender identity is determined by the mind or the spirit - it is internal not external. If they say you are crazy for believing that, go on to quote either scientific evidence from Josie or explain that transition is agreed and monitored by psychologists or therapists.

I wish you every success both for this endeavour and for your future.

Pamela