The fear of not cis passing well eventually? I am struggling with this fear as I'm sure many of you do as well. And I understand ideally it wouldn't be so important to me but that's just not the case. I don't want to have to live life on hard mode as visibly trans I just want a normal life and to blend in to society like any other girl.


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Well, I'm mostly just trying to get used to being misgendered and try to ignore it.  I'm hoping that with eventual facial feminization surgery (FFS) I won't be so easily clocked.  Makeup only goes so far in hiding the brow ridge, nose, and jawline.

I've put a lot of work into voice, posture, mannerisms, and wardrobe over the past two years, but still get regularly misgendered by:

1)  street people, who are acutely aware of those around them as a survival trait, and often have no internal censor to keep from speaking their mind

2)  people who know I'm trans, and in spite of educational efforts think of me in terms of a 'dude in a dress', cross-dresser, 'not a real woman', and similar tropes.  Mostly other older people, alas.

It's just going to happen.  Trying to 'fix the world' is unlikely to really solve the problem.  Hiding is what many did for a long time, but it certainly doesn't help once we reach the point where we have to be out.

I have to accept that in my case, even with crazy expensive treatment that someone somewhere will misgender me. Like others, including ciswomen, this is just going to happen.  (Ask a lesbian with butch presentation about misgendering!)  Just as with ciswomen who 'don't pass', we have to develop that inner strength to deal with and shrug off the opinions of others about how they see us. 

We have to be ourselves, in spite of the insane cultural conventions we live within.  Ultimately, we are ourselves, and if someone else is "confused", or disturbed by our not quite fitting into their cis patriarchal gender binary model, thats their problem for investing themselves with a broken model. Younger folks seem to understand this better, and I find that many happily ignore the broken gender binary model.

I think even with the most expensive surgery I'll never be cis. I pass well enough, but I'm tall and have large hands and long arms. Despite this most would gender me as female. For the rest? I simply don't care. I am who I am, happy in my own skin (finally) and if someone doesn't like it thats not my problem.

Quote from: krobinson103 on April 24, 2018, 01:05:18 PM
I think even with the most expensive surgery I'll never be cis. I pass well enough, but I'm tall and have large hands and long arms. Despite this most would gender me as female. For the rest? I simply don't care. I am who I am, happy in my own skin (finally) and if someone doesn't like it thats not my problem.

I appreciate your two comments but they are both along the lines of " I learned not to care if I was passing as cis I don't owe it to anyone to fit into gender norms" I appreciate the personal anecdotes but that's not what I am asking. I'm saying I want to be cis passing for myself not anyone else. How do I cope with the fear that that may not happen.


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Quote from: Courtney.lane408 on April 24, 2018, 01:18:54 PM
I appreciate your two comments but they are both along the lines of " I learned not to care if I was passing as cis I don't owe it to anyone to fit into gender norms" I appreciate the personal anecdotes but that's not what I am asking. I'm saying I want to be cis passing for myself not anyone else. How do I cope with the fear that that may not happen.


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I think we have to learn to have realistic expectations. Unless you transitioned before your first puberty the likely hood of being 'totally' cis is small. There will always be some tells. I think its something you can't be afraid of because if you were you would worry yourself to death. I can understand your point of view, but I have to wonder is your goal realistic or do you need to make a few concessions? Just food for thought.

Quote from: krobinson103 on April 24, 2018, 02:43:55 PM
I think we have to learn to have realistic expectations. Unless you transitioned before your first puberty the likely hood of being 'totally' cis is small. There will always be some tells. I think its something you can't be afraid of because if you were you would worry yourself to death. I can understand your point of view, but I have to wonder is your goal realistic or do you need to make a few concessions? Just food for thought.

Yeah your not wrong that's just hard to accept and yeah worrying myself to death sounds about right lol. One price of advice I got on ->-bleeped-<- asking the same question was this in case it helps anyone else " think about it this way lots of ftm guys can pass as a guy very well with just short hair, no makeup and guy clothes. So there is no way in hell  it would be possible for you to male fail this early on."

The thing is I'm lucky. I've got a great job supportive friends and family, am still in my 20s, and have a good starting point and I'm stillllll over here worrying my self to death over the what if's. I'm not sure how some of y'all do it that may not be quite as fortunate but I sure do look up to your guys I don't give a ->-bleeped-<- attitude. Trying to get there.


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Yeah... I'm at a point now that I just accept I'm not cis gender. I'm not short or petite. I saw a woman about my height and maybe body porportions and she did get attention. She could very well be trans but there was no doubt she was strutting and owning her stuff (with long hair which is what I want). There's so much power in a feminine elegance and confidence. Whether I'm andro or womanly, I don't give a rats behind anymore I just wanna feel good about myself!

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Well the way I cope with it is convincing myself that I would rather be a beautiful trans woman than an average cis looking woman. Meaning, if they're gonna clock me, at least I hope they can say "...but she's gorgeous".

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 24, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
Well the way I cope with it is convincing myself that I would rather be a beautiful trans woman than an average cis looking woman. Meaning, if they're gonna clock me, at least I hope they can say "...but she's gorgeous".

Love this, thanks Nicki [emoji1317] and btw you ARE beautiful from what I can see in your avatar!


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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 24, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
Well the way I cope with it is convincing myself that I would rather be a beautiful trans woman than an average cis looking woman. Meaning, if they're gonna clock me, at least I hope they can say "...but she's gorgeous".

Good attitude!  If we're gonna get clocked as being off the cis-binary somehow, we might as well just be our best possible most fab selves.  I've commented elsewhere that I try to dress well, have my presentation together.  I do this for myself.  I feel better about myself when I've got it together.

This has resulted in at least one older femme lesbian commenting "My gawd, she's more femme than I am!"  I'll take that as a complement!

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 24, 2018, 11:29:40 AM
...
I have to accept that in my case, even with crazy expensive treatment that someone somewhere will misgender me. Like others, including ciswomen, this is just going to happen.  (Ask a lesbian with butch presentation about misgendering!)  Just as with ciswomen who 'don't pass', we have to develop that inner strength to deal with and shrug off the opinions of others about how they see us.
...

A certain portion of ciswomen get mis-read as being trans.  This is the result of greater awareness that we exist, combined with lots of dubious information about how a trans person 'looks'.  We are doing pretty well when the rate at which we are misgendered approaches the rate at which a  ciswoman might be misgendered.

(BTW, it seems a significant part of the population doesn't even know that trans men exist!  That certainly improves the odds for passing.)

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 24, 2018, 05:09:52 PM
Good attitude!  If we're gonna get clocked as being off the cis-binary somehow, we might as well just be our best possible most fab selves.  I've commented elsewhere that I try to dress well, have my presentation together.  I do this for myself.  I feel better about myself when I've got it together.

This has resulted in at least one older femme lesbian commenting "My gawd, she's more femme than I am!"  I'll take that as a complement!

A certain portion of ciswomen get mis-read as being trans.  This is the result of greater awareness that we exist, combined with lots of dubious information about how a trans person 'looks'.  We are doing pretty well when the rate at which we are misgendered approaches the rate at which a  ciswoman might be misgendered.

(BTW, it seems a significant part of the population doesn't even know that trans men exist!  That certainly improves the odds for passing.)

Right I feel like non passing trans guys just get read as butch lesbians and ones that pass wellll they pass so you don't know they are trans = no trans guys


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I'm more concerned about being pretty than being passable.  I'd rather look like a pretty trans woman than a not-pretty cis woman.  Maybe it's shallow and not emotionally healthy but that's how I feel.  Not being pretty post-transition is my biggest fear as I move forward.

To my knowledge there has never been an answer to fear. Not something you want to hear but the truth. Blend in yes, but that everyone around us will know in less time than you can imagine will ALWAYS be a possibility. To go forward without knowing that to our very core is not courageous it's foolhardy.

Would you go back?

I know many that have said yes but it is an important question. Would you go back?
If this was a contest, we lost when we were born. It's not, it's our life. You can't give this back, it doesn't work that way. In the face of everything that may go wrong we take a step.
Then we take another.
Then another.
And another.
That is the formula, sucks but that is it.

You don't seem to be looking for an out or going for the easy route. I wish that we could help. I hurt every time I read about someone who is doing all the right things and is still afraid, I remember very well what it is like.

What transition is, best case scenario, is that we will be like 50% of the population. With all the same problems. It's tough going but for those of us who feel that need deep inside, it's worth it even with the problems.

Not one exceptional life happens without sacrifice. What kind of life do you want?

Ill never be a cis woman. I won't fool myself about that but I will present as the best I can as a trans woman. I'm confident and comfortable in my life and it gets better every day. This morning I was asked by a tenant of the building where the guy from downstairs was ( referring to me). I said I was the guy from downstairs and he just plain as day said "but your a woman" and that made my week. I still get misgendered but usually only when people hear my voice.
My wife gets misgendered by voice all the time and she is cis.
I have way to many fun things to do with and to myself to worry about the odd slip by someone I may never see again. And people I know that slip up do get educated every time sort of just to make them feel bad.

I don't even care about how people see me.  I care about how I see me.  And I'm afraid that this transition won't be worth it if I don't like what I see.  That's how I feel in moments of anxiety.

Quote from: VaxSpyder on April 24, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
I don't even care about how people see me.  I care about how I see me.  And I'm afraid that this transition won't be worth it if I don't like what I see.  That's how I feel in moments of anxiety.

Do you like the way you see yourself now?

Quote from: VaxSpyder on April 24, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
I don't even care about how people see me.  I care about how I see me.  And I'm afraid that this transition won't be worth it if I don't like what I see.  That's how I feel in moments of anxiety.

Omg this times a million. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I actually couldn't care less if people misgender me. To be honest if someone reads me as male then I'm cool with them using male pronouns. I would prefer them to read me as female and use female pronouns but not at the expense of what they are seeing and the truth of how they are reading me. What I want is for them to read me as female, not for them to walk on egg shells around me and treat me different. Aka reading me as male but it's obvious I'm presenting as a women so they indulge me by using female pronouns.
This transition isn't about others, isn't about pronouns, or making sure everyone caters to my presentation and uses the right words as to not offend me. If they are reading me as male I would rather know it even if that means being misgendered.

This transition is about me and my gender dysphoria over my face and body and how I see myself. When I get out of the shower and see myself on the mirror I want to see a women. When I'm at the gym running I want to see a girl when I take a snap to send to my friends when I'm done.  I don't want to avoid being "misgendered" I want to avoid being read as male assigned at birth in the first place!!! That to me is passing, not my presentation being fem enough that I illicit the right pronouns from people.


By the way I am only speaking from my heart here and I'm really sorry if this rubs anyone on here the wrong way. I can't help how I feel and there has got to be others like me out there.

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Absolutely no offense.

How can not doing anything be better though? I guess that I don't understand.

If someone would rather be male than what, from what I understand, they perceive as a failed woman. Why bother? If you can live the rest of your life male but would be a woman and long as you can be a flawless woman, if not you don't want want to do it, why do it? Just confused I guess.

Quote from: FinallyMichelle on April 24, 2018, 10:12:10 PM
Absolutely no offense.

How can not doing anything be better though? I guess that I don't understand.

If someone would rather be male than what, from what I understand, they perceive as a failed woman. Why bother? If you can live the rest of your life male but would be a woman and long as you can be a flawless woman, if not you don't want want to do it, why do it? Just confused I guess.

Oh yeah I should have made that more clear. Despite what said above I am all in. I'm transitioning no matter what, no matter my level of passing. And I'm doing everything I possible can to pass, but not passing won't stop me either way because I know I am a women on the inside despite how I may look. But even knowing that I am a women I would still rather people just use male pronouns if they read me as male, I don't want to be special or ask anyone to treat me that way. But Half way there is still better than not doing anything. Every bit of feminization is an improvement for sure. I guess I'm realizing i have zero social dysphoria and 100% physical dysphoria over my body and face.


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Yes the general public will be honest in how they see you for the most part. Until hrt is given the time it needs, there's no gaurantee. I think the longer you're on hrt the more you'll feminize. Now, as far as how others will perceive and gender you.. I actually think that's a gamble sometimes. Is it worth it?

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