The safety issue considered, everyone has different relationships, hookups or whatever. In my estimate, there is never a time when a person should be obligated or forced to reveal personal information about themselves such as past history. As in all things there are potential consequences, good, bad and neutral.

Quote from: RobynD on May 02, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
The safety issue considered, everyone has different relationships, hookups or whatever. In my estimate, there is never a time when a person should be obligated or forced to reveal personal information about themselves such as past history. As in all things there are potential consequences, good, bad and neutral.

I dunno, the disclosure that they served 20 years for murdering a transgender person might come in handy...

In my opinion, it's just sheer arrogance to suggest that our right to make our own decisions trumps someone else's right to make their own decisions..like NOT sleeping with transgender people.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 02, 2018, 11:15:04 AM
Becky decided not to reveal her transgender status to her partner until after they had sex. Becky got hacked to death. Don't be like Becky.

Yep. I think being upfront is the way to go.

Dev, this has been hashed and rehashed. For some being stealth is essential for daily safety, for others the risks of not disclosing ahead are greater. Free will is a funny thing, it comes with responsibilities.

I don't recognize any right to know my medical information and I don't accept transphobia. It's not right and it never will be, that's my opinion. I don't think there's a right or wrong here, only viewpoints and we know everyone gets to have those.

It may be my imagination, and I am not referring to any particular replies, but the topic already seems to be getting tense in places.  I am just a Neighbour, so no offence to anyone but  I hope that this does not become one of those topics where opinions are so polarized that tempers flare, feelings are hurt and rifts are opened.

We all know the visceral reaction this can elicit from people. 

Play with that if you wish, but spare us the whining about transphobia when you get hurt.

The transphobes are creating their own problem here. If they didn't stigmatize being transgender, they'd be able to ask outright, and trans people would feel more comfortable disclosing. One doesn't get to incite violence against trans people with bigoted rhetoric, and then whine about the risk of offending cis people by asking if they're trans.

Or whine about trans people not trusting others with their status when transphobes made that mistrustful environment themselves.

I talked to a guy for a week. He seemed sweet and polite, but I wasn't looking to date anyone at the time. I made it clear that we would just be friends. At the end of that week, he started to flirt a bit and I came out to him so he'd stop. He threatened to hurt me for leading him on.

There is honestly no right answer when or if you should disclose. People out there will kill you just for breathing their air. Some of us are safer in stealth, some of us can't be in stealth and some of us want to leave the trans thing behind altogether. I think it's important to remember that what works for one person may not work for everyone. Just use your common sense and think logically in these situations.

We can surely offer more constructive criticism than "Good luck getting killed."

Quote from: Memento on May 03, 2018, 05:31:56 PM

We can surely offer more constructive criticism than "Good luck getting killed."

Amn sister.

The first cultural reference I can remember to men being violent towards someone they'd initiated sex with was in "Trainspotting", the 1993 novel (&1996 film) about heroin addicts in Edinburgh. There's a passage where the character Ralph Begbie picks up a thoroughly readable trans woman and becomes violent when he realizes she has a penis.

The other one I remember best is in the TV series "Sopranos" when character Chris Moltosanti tells a story of violence done to a neighborhood trans woman. Notably the same character in a different episode beats up his fiancee for not having told him that she might have trouble having children. Same behavior, neither is acceptable in civil society.

The thing is both of these characters and their transphobic violence are portrayed as sociopathic. I think most people today recognize that these acts are driven by homophobia/transphobia. Sure there are people out there who are going to be unhappy to learn of a transitioned partner's history. That doesn't make the response right or acceptable. We are allowed in most jurisdictions to change our legally recognized genders, as such society - at leas as defined in the law - has recognized us as our true genders.

Blaming victims isn't acceptable and while I know there are many who disagree, I have a very hard time seeing someone who unknowingly has sex with someone who's transitioned as a victim.

I remember that Sopranos episode vividly, always made me really uncomfortable and sad even seeing it over a decade before I came out to myself. He even turned around and used "t girl" as a slur against someone else later in the episode who he thought lied about the nature of their relationship. I remember at the time thinking that she just deserved to be loved.

Men expect to have sex with a cis female, tgs are not cis. Any man would get upset if this is not disclosed, some transphobic men will get violent. I always disclose and on Tinder I write that I am a post op tg. Be safe, be honest with your sexual partner and live long. Be proud of who you are, a tg female, cos you can never be a cis female.

Quote from: Memento on May 03, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
There is honestly no right answer when or if you should disclose. People out there will kill you just for breathing their air. Some of us are safer in stealth, some of us can't be in stealth and some of us want to leave the trans thing behind altogether. I think it's important to remember that what works for one person may not work for everyone. Just use your common sense and think logically in these situations.

We can surely offer more constructive criticism than "Good luck getting killed."

So true, thank you for that, couldn't put it better myself, we have to go with our own inner instinct, my first boyfriend was with me when I transition, he supported me through all my surgeries, we did eventually break up, nothing to do with my transition just relationship stuff.
I dated another guy and didn't disclose for many weeks, when I told him I was trans the relationship turn completely sour, he was disgusted and felt revulsion at himself that he slept with a trans woman, my self confidence hit rock bottom when he dump me. Any guy I disclosed on a first date never went beyond the first date.
Then I met a guy at a house party, he flirted with me, we clicked instantly, took  me out to dinner, we got on so well, then the dreaded decision, when do I tell him, I just kept putting it off, then he proposed we get engaged, I didn't see that coming, it was then I told him, the hardest decision I've ever had to make, he didn't show any anger, just shock and complete disbelief, he asked me a lot of questions about my transition and got counselling himself, he fell in love with a woman with a trans history, and he is now my husband. If I disclosed on that first date he probably wouldn't be my husband now, but he got to know me as a woman over time before I disclosed.
There are no set rules when to disclosed, every situation and circumstances are different, when an ex boyfriend rejected me all them years ago, probably did me a favor, no matter how pretty, beautiful and feminine I was, some guys just couldn't accept my history being born ''male'' 

This has made me really sad. If you start a relationship with a label over your head, they will never see you for who you really are. We are just like any other girl and I believe in showing them that before disclosing anything.

And as others have said, I'm sure the people we date could tell us some absolutely shocking things about their own past - things that would make us be the ones dumping them. That's why they don't tell us. What makes the trans thing any different? It's not like disclosing an HIV status.

I am going to be more direct than I usually am I was an Alpja male and respected by all my male friends and business associates. Each and every one of them have an open mind regarding tgs and sime have even dated and one married one. But each and every one believe in entering a relationship based on truths. The truth is we are NOT cis females, we will never be cis females. We can be feminine but not female. Disclosure is necessary before entering a relationship. This is not about each others secret but the very basis truths before a relationship between two people.You can be in stealth but before entering that relationship that stealth has to end for that person. Its logucal and essential for a healthy relationship and safety.

Quote from: SadieBlake on May 02, 2018, 02:58:09 PM
Dev, this has been hashed and rehashed. For some being stealth is essential for daily safety, for others the risks of not disclosing ahead are greater. Free will is a funny thing, it comes with responsibilities.

I don't recognize any right to know my medical information and I don't accept transphobia. It's not right and it never will be, that's my opinion. I don't think there's a right or wrong here, only viewpoints and we know everyone gets to have those.

I'm just pointing out that it comes with consequences, too. We are not obligated to reveal our status. We are not obligated to look both ways before crossing the street. Most people look, the rest get a Darwin Award. 

As long as the individual accepts responsibility for their actions, it's all good.

Hugs, Devlyn

Right, and with some (probably most) dates, informing right off makes the chances pretty darned high you'll never see them again. That's a risk.

And, yes, informing after feelings have developed, or sex has been shared has it's own set of risks which yes, include the possibility of violence. However I think you're putting up a strawman here.

Supposing I passed and start seeing someone and we eventually have feelings and / or sex. At any point along the way I am going to be evaluating whether this is a ONS, FWB, LTR .... I'm also going to be observing if the person seems safe and accepting.

Now I absolutely agree that if you're going to disclose then best it be soonest. On the other hand if my feelings were that the person won't be accepting, I'd probably never inform and break it off which is something I might do for a host of reasons and in a lot of cases I'd just want closure to avoid pointless conversations. In fact this is how I handle non-romantic relationships, people who I feel are a drain on my energy, fail to bring positive things to friendship etc ... I pretty much ghost.

Of course if I were going to wait to disclose and do so to someone I had reason to think *won't* be accepting then  be sure I'd be doing it in a time and place that ensured safely. But then I make sure to have all relationship talks in a place and manner that's non-threatening.

There's a saying "good fences make good neighbors". This applies to relationships, good boundaries are essential to healthy relationships.

Quote from: SadieBlake on May 07, 2018, 11:32:22 AM
Right, and with some (probably most) dates, informing right off makes the chances pretty darned high you'll never see them again. That's a risk.

And, yes, informing after feelings have developed, or sex has been shared has it's own set of risks which yes, include the possibility of violence. However I think you're putting up a strawman here.

Supposing I passed and start seeing someone and we eventually have feelings and / or sex. At any point along the way I am going to be evaluating whether this is a ONS, FWB, LTR .... I'm also going to be observing if the person seems safe and accepting.

Now I absolutely agree that if you're going to disclose then best it be soonest. On the other hand if my feelings were that the person won't be accepting, I'd probably never inform and break it off which is something I might do for a host of reasons and in a lot of cases I'd just want closure to avoid pointless conversations. In fact this is how I handle non-romantic relationships, people who I feel are a drain on my energy, fail to bring positive things to friendship etc ... I pretty much ghost.

Of course if I were going to wait to disclose and do so to someone I had reason to think *won't* be accepting then  be sure I'd be doing it in a time and place that ensured safely. But then I make sure to have all relationship talks in a place and manner that's non-threatening.

There's a saying "good fences make good neighbors". This applies to relationships, good boundaries are essential to healthy relationships.

You didn't quote my post, so I'm not sure you're addressing me.

Nonetheless, my post is not a strawman argument since I have not defined anything as right or wrong. I've merely pointed out the correlation between taking risks and taking responsibility for the decision to take the risks.

Quote from: warlockmaker on May 04, 2018, 08:12:28 PM
Men expect to have sex with a cis female, tgs are not cis. Any man would get upset if this is not disclosed, some transphobic men will get violent. I always disclose and on Tinder I write that I am a post op tg. Be safe, be honest with your sexual partner and live long. Be proud of who you are, a tg female, cos you can never be a cis female.

I agree with this statement.

Everyone has a right to run their own lives and relationships how they see fit. I think it is borderline disrespectful to say your way is the only way and insist that everyone follow your rules. We are all individuals and every relationship is different.

I don't think we can be cis women in that we don't have ovaries and can't carry (yet). I honestly don't think majority of the people we meet need to know we're trans. A lot of dysphoria is wanting to fit into society as a female (or male for ftms) effortlessly. I understand cis and trans are different in terms of biology, but so are intersex. At the end of the day, we're human and my self worth is more important than a tinder hook up. It comes down to the individual standards.

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