Hi, everyone

I've been a bit puzzled about the subject of pain every time it comes up, and just now finally realized I could simply ask...

So—when I undergo electrolysis (or other procedures that hurt) what mostly happens is that as long as I move the pain into the "warning" (vs. "danger" or "damage") category and keep relaxed it remains pretty unimportant, and the primary annoyance becomes an occasional twitch that feels as if a misconnected nerve were trying to move an unrelated muscle.

I'm pretty sure everyone does something similar—but from reading other people's accounts it seems clear that to many if not most the pain is too great to redefine. I guess that what I'd like to know is where everyone else normally draws the line between the different pain types, and up to what degree you can temporarily move the category boundaries.

I've never thought of pain that way, and I don't think I can.

What I do is not allow my attention focus on the pain. Instead I think about something els. For example when i get a blood draw, I don't look at what's happening. Instead I look somewhere else in the room. When I had electrolysis, I would concentrate on a difficult to solve problem instead of what was happening to my face.

Thank you for the replies!

Quote from: AnonyMs on May 09, 2018, 07:59:37 PM
I've never thought of pain that way, and I don't think I can.

Ugh—yes, I do see I probably wasn't detailed enough. To me the gross categories are as follows:

Warning pain is pain that you know is not dangerous—e.g. a muscle stressed but not quite to the limit.
Danger pain is that same muscle stressed to the brink of injury.
Damage pain is the feeling of the muscle actually tearing asunder.

... so in that sense the boundaries themselves are simple.
What I really meant to ask was merely how far everyone can shift them, and with what effort.

Quote from: Dena on May 09, 2018, 10:08:21 PM
What I do is not allow my attention focus on the pain. Instead I think about something els. For example when i get a blood draw, I don't look at what's happening. Instead I look somewhere else in the room. When I had electrolysis, I would concentrate on a difficult to solve problem instead of what was happening to my face.

I do see... Yes. I'm sure this would also work. Knowing the limits of my self-discipline, though, I might find it hard to maintain concentration while also maintaining a conversation. (･_･;

I find electrolysis immensely painful. There's no conceivable way I can think otherwise and so far only various drugs have made it tolerable.

Haha I just started electrolysis, 3 sessions so far. It is very painful.
But I never move a mm.
I often focus on the little light patterns in my eyes. Or follow the little floating hair things that are in there haha
Plus pain is to warn us of thing that might hurt or kill us, this will not, so it's easier to ignore that pain :')

I have definitely endured much worse pain than electrolysis.  It is irritating, to be sure, but no where near immense or great in my opinion.  At best, based on the categorical breakdown from zirconia I would barely put it at warning.

As I said here, I take pain pretty well, though, so I am sure others have a different experience if you've not endured a lot in the past.

Its the worst pain I've ever experienced, and I've been in hospital on opiates before.

It's interesting to already see the differences in pain perception even with just five participants in this thread so far.

Anyway, I confess I feel a bit relieved. Seeing a major part of comments on electrolysis revolve around pain and painkillers made me a bit worried whether I was just an insensitive freak. I'm very glad to hear there is at least one other person who can fall asleep under the needle.

By the way, for me shifting the boundaries doesn't actually negate the pain but rather just makes it unimportant. Still, I find I can pass a sewing needle through any body part without stress. (Well, at least those I'd prefer not to have. I haven't experiment with anything delicate that I do want to keep.)

The main thing that puzzles me is what causes the difference in perception. My first theory was that those who have had greater trauma (including surgery) will more easily feel the tiny needle and the small energy it carries to be nothing in comparison, and—also knowing there will be no undesired effects—be able to turn down the alarm.

As for myself, after (orthopedic) surgery the feeling of damage—broken nerve connections, changed muscular motion and such—was overwhelming. It was my first physiotherapist who explained to me the different pain categories. Since the primary damage was done, he told me to observe the pain and ignore what I could observe would not hinder the healing—except should it become necessary to rip budding attachments that would hinder future range of motion. That pain was not true damage either so I was to ignore it as well.

Ainsley's account would seem to support my original theory. However, although AnonyMs has experienced pain that required opiates, to her the pain from electrolysis is even worse. Dena can distract herself, and Rachel is also able to ignore it by concentrating on other things.

...so at this point there seems to be no real trend. I'd really love to hear more people's experiences or theories.

- What is the limit of pain that you can ignore?
- If you do have categories, what are they and where are the boundaries?
- Can you adjust the perception if it's something you're doing/having done on purpose?
- Has the limit or range of adjustment changed after experiencing something more painful or through some kind of training?

On an aside, I'm visiting Taiwan until tomorrow, so when my coworker pointed out a famous foot massage parlor, saying it would make me cry, I decided to gather a bit more data. And yes, for a split second the pain in a few spots was pretty intense. However, I did find I could relax and move it away.

But I did half want to cry when I realized I'd let the hair on my shins grow a bit too long.

Anyway, at least my feet feel wonderfully refreshed. And I've made a resolution to somehow find the spare time to make all remaining surplus hair go away...
=(^.^)=

My theory for why people experience pain differently is endorphins. I have a high tolerance to pain and when I experience extreme pain, I am somewhat wiped out afterward much like I have been drugged. It almost feels like my body over produces endorphins for the amount of pain I feel. My theory is that at times of extreme pain my body produces more endorphins that are required to control the amount of pain I feel. The down side of this is when the supply of endorphins is exhausted, I feel the longer lasting low grade pain afterward.

You can train your mind to override whatever pain and discomfort your body is feeling.  It's sort of like you become able to compartmentalize it and put it away until later.   You can drive on through quite a bit of pain this way, even the kind that is causing physical damage.


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I spent a good part of my past life doing a couple of trades and learned how to deal with pain, but nothing prepared me for the pain of electrolysis. It hurts everywhere, and it hurts even worse in certain areas such as upper lip, lower lip and anywhere along the lip line. And things only got worse after I started HRT.

I use a lidocaine mix I found on here and asked my Dr to give me a prescription for, as well as percs precscribed for the super painful areas, and advil (4) for everywhere else.

Hi, Brandi

So, you find it harder to deal with pain from electrolysis than other types of pain? Is it just that it's not limited to one spot and the level varies, or is there anything else about it that you think makes it more difficult for you?

Deborah—yes, overriding does seem to be a good word. It's hard to describe—although the pain is fully there it somehow becomes significant only in that I must recognize, accept and contain it...

Dena, do you mean you think some people are able to release endorphins at will, or that some people just naturally release more than others do? Either way, have you any thoughts on why that might be?   

Under pain you automatically release it. It's natures way of controlling pain and many drugs like morphine and heroin have a similar molecular structure and work by using the same receptors that endorphins use. The numbers I last heard said that endorphins were several hundred time more potent but they are produced in very small quantities and last a short time in the body.

Possibly some people release more of it than others but I don't know.

Quote from: zirconia on May 19, 2018, 08:27:48 PM
Hi, Brandi

So, you find it harder to deal with pain from electrolysis than other types of pain? Is it just that it's not limited to one spot and the level varies, or is there anything else about it that you think makes it more difficult for you?

The pain is incredible which makes it more difficult than say, a cut finger or scratch. I used to handle hot metal every day and the pain was nothing compared to electrolysis.

One time I had a skiing accident and broke my left leg. I had to drive home in my stick shift car. Each time I had to use the clutch with my broken leg it was excruciating but manageable. The continued piercing and zapping for two hours without lidocaine injections was not manageable. The pain levels with electrolysis is lower than stepping on the clutch with the broken leg but they are repeated hundreds of times an hour. Half an hour or a full hour I could take, two hours was more than I could marshal my mind to endure.

Quote from: zirconia on May 09, 2018, 07:00:52 PM
Hi, everyone

I've been a bit puzzled about the subject of pain every time it comes up, and just now finally realized I could simply ask...

So—when I undergo electrolysis (or other procedures that hurt) what mostly happens is that as long as I move the pain into the "warning" (vs. "danger" or "damage") category and keep relaxed it remains pretty unimportant, and the primary annoyance becomes an occasional twitch that feels as if a misconnected nerve were trying to move an unrelated muscle.

I'm pretty sure everyone does something similar—but from reading other people's accounts it seems clear that to many if not most the pain is too great to redefine. I guess that what I'd like to know is where everyone else normally draws the line between the different pain types, and up to what degree you can temporarily move the category boundaries.

I have had 13 or so surgeries on my face over the years due to needing a correction to a physical deformity. This has left me with a highly sensitive facial skin which was not happy when I started Electrolysis. It hurt bad enough to have me arching my back off the table...in the end I had facial injections and dental blocks to get through the first 2 clearances which in combination with laser took about a year.

I tried various techniques including several self hypnosis sessions all to no avail..

I also have an implanted medication device that delivers narcotic pain relief 24/7 however this made no difference when it came to zapping my face...as the currents came down I was able to use Emla cream which worked for about 15min per application so I would put 4 seperate lots on and the Electrologist would uncover each one after about 15 minutes so thereby covering me for the hour..

Dental blocks was the only way I could manage the top lip...

I tried all sorts of things but in the end it was more about how much I could tolerate than any kind of medical intervention apart from the injections....the facial injection were effective in
most but not all areas.

take care

Liz

Pain and response to it and perceptions of pain are interesting. I had an extremely traumatic series of events as a teen and part of my recovery was being taught how to compartmentalise and to isolate reactions (and emotions). Deborah may have had similar but more modern training in her military career. 

When I went through my cancer treatments my medics were surprised to see that I did not want, need or use anaesthetics or pain killers for a number of procedures that many patients did require them for. I have my speech valves, plastic tubes pushed through my throat to my trachea, without any anaesthesia, other patients need at least a local and many a general anaesthesia. I had my PEG tube removed without any painkillers even though I was lifted off the table by the guy trying to pull it out!
However short sharp pain is very difficult to control and chronic pain is virtually impossible to control with such techniques. You have to prepare yourself, meditate and go. I didn't require electrolysis so I cannot comment on that (I was cleared with laser).

Meditation on isolation of self is a very useful technique to have and to practice.

I reached my limit after 2 hours, I just end up shaking more an more until I have to stop. I can go a lot longer with lorazepam (a benzodiazepine) and more painkillers.