I would like to start off with saying that this is simply my opinion and am totally okay if people disagree with me.
Second, I really do not want to offend anyone or trigger dysphoria.
I was curious what you guys on here thought and figured if I wrote what I thinking down it make more sense *Shrugs*

With that being said I'll put it short than explain.
As a transgender guy my sex will always be female while my gender is male.
Now, I tried talking about this with a few people I know, some trans some not, and they always shut me down saying both my sex and gender are male. But put simply I can not change genetics, my wide hips, etc. With that said I really do not care about that. As long as people do not argue about my gender being male and if I can express/change myself however I deem fit I will be my happiest and truest self.

Quote from: acidonangles on May 24, 2018, 02:10:14 PM
I would like to start off with saying that this is simply my opinion and am totally okay if people disagree with me.
Second, I really do not want to offend anyone or trigger dysphoria.
I was curious what you guys on here thought and figured if I wrote what I thinking down it make more sense *Shrugs*

With that being said I'll put it short than explain.
As a transgender guy my sex will always be female while my gender is male.
Now, I tried talking about this with a few people I know, some trans some not, and they always shut me down saying both my sex and gender are male. But put simply I can not change genetics, my wide hips, etc. With that said I really do not care about that. As long as people do not argue about my gender being male and if I can express/change myself however I deem fit I will be my happiest and truest self.

This sounds like how I don't agree with being called transsexual, and prefer the term transgender. Genetically, I'm female, adding testosterone isn't going to get rid of my high predisposition to primarily female diseases, and it won't get rid of my chance of things like cervical cancer. Just like I will never have testicular cancer. I am female genetically, my sex has not changed, and no matter what I do to myself, it will never completely change. But, don't socially treat me like I'm female, my gender is male.

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Quote from: acidonangles on May 24, 2018, 02:10:14 PM
I would like to start off with saying that this is simply my opinion and am totally okay if people disagree with me.
Second, I really do not want to offend anyone or trigger dysphoria.
I was curious what you guys on here thought and figured if I wrote what I thinking down it make more sense *Shrugs*

With that being said I'll put it short than explain.
As a transgender guy my sex will always be female while my gender is male.
Now, I tried talking about this with a few people I know, some trans some not, and they always shut me down saying both my sex and gender are male. But put simply I can not change genetics, my wide hips, etc. With that said I really do not care about that. As long as people do not argue about my gender being male and if I can express/change myself however I deem fit I will be my happiest and truest self.

Let me try to phrase this from heir point of view, expressing how "they see it"  how much do men really know about female life?  Most guys look oh she's hot, let tease her make her laugh and try to get her into bed.

Males are really ignorant of females, and likewise females are often clueless about males.   Ask anyone who is married and why their marriage lasts, they'll all agree that It takes patience, listening and work and respect.

Transgender are in a situation where medical evidence doesn't fit the complaints of the patient.  I have been reading a lot of ligature lately, both recent and old.  There is outstanding agreement on the theories of transsexualism that happen to fit the facts.

But the treatment is the same, if the social problems are severe enough allow transition.  Because while the theories can't be disproven yet.  They do nothing to help the patient.  So transition is a band-aid that seems to stop the bleeding.  What has caused the injury is still unproved, only a theories that happen to fit the cause.

So when people are saying umm no, you are both gender and sex male.  While you may not like it.  They aren't lying.  They just have no interest into buying into your argument.  Why should they?  There is no proof stating cross genders even exist.

This will never change until doctors can prove cross genders exist with biological, tested, and confirmed medical evidence.  At present there is none.  Only theories.

Hence non-transgenders have no reason to accept this view point.  At best they can do is accept you for you, whoever that is.

Quote from: Grunt on May 24, 2018, 02:27:22 PM
This sounds like how I don't agree with being called transsexual, and prefer the term transgender. Genetically, I'm female, adding testosterone isn't going to get rid of my high predisposition to primarily female diseases, and it won't get rid of my chance of things like cervical cancer. Just like I will never have testicular cancer. I am female genetically, my sex has not changed, and no matter what I do to myself, it will never completely change. But, don't socially treat me like I'm female, my gender is male.

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I'm happy to see that someone agrees Although what bothered me was the fact that the people I talked to before shut me down before I explained why.

Quote from: Ashley0808 on May 24, 2018, 02:56:18 PM
Let me try to phrase this from heir point of view, expressing how "they see it"  how much do men really know about female life?  Most guys look oh she's hot, let tease her make her laugh and try to get her into bed.

Males are really ignorant of females, and likewise females are often clueless about males.   Ask anyone who is married and why their marriage lasts, they'll all agree that It takes patience, listening and work and respect.

Transgender are in a situation where medical evidence doesn't fit the complaints of the patient.  I have been reading a lot of ligature lately, both recent and old.  There is outstanding agreement on the theories of transsexualism that happen to fit the facts.

But the treatment is the same, if the social problems are severe enough allow transition.  Because while the theories can't be disproven yet.  They do nothing to help the patient.  So transition is a band-aid that seems to stop the bleeding.  What has caused the injury is still unproved, only a theories that happen to fit the cause.

So when people are saying umm no, you are both gender and sex male.  While you may not like it.  They aren't lying.  They just have no interest into buying into your argument.  Why should they?  There is no proof stating cross genders even exist.

This will never change until doctors can prove cross genders exist with biological, tested, and confirmed medical evidence.  At present there is none.  Only theories.

Hence non-transgenders have no reason to accept this view point.  At best they can do is accept you for you, whoever that is.

Your last sentence, in the end, is all I really care about. That those around me and say they care about simply accept me.

Quote from: Ashley0808 on May 24, 2018, 02:56:18 PM
Let me try to phrase this from heir point of view, expressing how "they see it"  how much do men really know about female life?  Most guys look oh she's hot, let tease her make her laugh and try to get her into bed.

Males are really ignorant of females, and likewise females are often clueless about males.   Ask anyone who is married and why their marriage lasts, they'll all agree that It takes patience, listening and work and respect.

Transgender are in a situation where medical evidence doesn't fit the complaints of the patient.  I have been reading a lot of ligature lately, both recent and old.  There is outstanding agreement on the theories of transsexualism that happen to fit the facts.

But the treatment is the same, if the social problems are severe enough allow transition.  Because while the theories can't be disproven yet.  They do nothing to help the patient.  So transition is a band-aid that seems to stop the bleeding.  What has caused the injury is still unproved, only a theories that happen to fit the cause.

So when people are saying umm no, you are both gender and sex male.  While you may not like it.  They aren't lying.  They just have no interest into buying into your argument.  Why should they?  There is no proof stating cross genders even exist.

This will never change until doctors can prove cross genders exist with biological, tested, and confirmed medical evidence.  At present there is none.  Only theories.

Hence non-transgenders have no reason to accept this view point.  At best they can do is accept you for you, whoever that is.

I may be misunderstanding everything, but I don't understand a FtM being told their gender and sex is male just because they added testosterone. I can understand being told I'm female, and having to argue that, but...

Also, I don't understand what "oh, she's hot, let's get her in bed" has to do with anything.

I do agree with the last sentence, though. Accept us, regardless of whether they agree with what we identify as, or not.

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You should at least run your unpopular opinions past me first. I'm an expert!   

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 24, 2018, 05:31:02 PM
You should at least run your unpopular opinions past me first. I'm an expert!   

Hugs, Devlyn

And what is your verdict on my possibly unpopular opinion? 

Quote from: acidonangles on May 24, 2018, 06:01:24 PM
And what is your verdict on my possibly unpopular opinion? 

You have the right approach. Be yourself and be happy about it.

I like the genderbread person image. It shows that sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears, orientation is in the heart, and expression encompasses the individual in their entirety. 

Hugs, Devlyn

QuoteThis will never change until doctors can prove cross genders exist with biological, tested, and confirmed medical evidence.  At present there is none.  Only theories.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/transgender-brain-scans-promised-study-shows-structural-differences/

There is actually lots of data concerning the sexual dimorphism of the brain.

I agree with the OP, in the sense that the situation is difficult, and doubly so to describe to someone who hasn't had the same experience. The part of me that experiences my gender is 100% male, but even with all the surgery and hormones in the world, I'll be stuck with a female skeletal structure. This, coupled with a few other things, makes me feel like the sum total of how my existence presents is non-binary, though I internally identify as male, and taking what medical options are available will alleviate my dysphoria immensely.

To complicate the discussion, however, I also think about how if I had started hormones early enough, maybe I would have gotten extra growth in terms of skeletal structure.

The lines are blurry and fluid.

Quote from: Devlyn on May 24, 2018, 06:35:40 PM
You have the right approach. Be yourself and be happy about it.

I like the genderbread person image. It shows that sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears, orientation is in the heart, and expression encompasses the individual in their entirety. 

Hugs, Devlyn

I keep that gingerbread picture on hand to help explain this type of stuff to those willing to listen to my rambles.

Quote from: blackcat on May 24, 2018, 06:58:24 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/transgender-brain-scans-promised-study-shows-structural-differences/

There is actually lots of data concerning the sexual dimorphism of the brain.

I agree with the OP, in the sense that the situation is difficult, and doubly so to describe to someone who hasn't had the same experience. The part of me that experiences my gender is 100% male, but even with all the surgery and hormones in the world, I'll be stuck with a female skeletal structure. This, coupled with a few other things, makes me feel like the sum total of how my existence presents is non-binary, though I internally identify as male, and taking what medical options are available will alleviate my dysphoria immensely.

To complicate the discussion, however, I also think about how if I had started hormones early enough, maybe I would have gotten extra growth in terms of skeletal structure.

The lines are blurry and fluid.

I actually did a research paper cover the differences between cis and trans brains. Also on how the brain changes with HRT. It was some pretty cool stuff!

I agree with you 100%. I see my gender at nothing but male, but that my body's biological sex is female no matter what I try to do about that. Sometimes that gets me down, but for me it's really just a fact, and appearing male is ultimately more important to me than what my chromosomes tell me my sex is. (I know for a fact I'm XX, cause it was tested.)

That's why I prefer to call myself a transsexual man instead of transgender, cause well my gender is fixed and not in any sort of transition. It's always been male. My sex however, although cannot be literally changed, was in transition from female to appearing male.

I came out as trans and started finding language for that in 2009 and back then was before the general language about trans terms had started changing to what's more commonly used now. So I have an "older" language for how I'm trans, than perhaps most of my peers do.

At this point I think I look mostly male, but my hips and genitals look and are female. Having female genitals does not bother me anymore, nor does it bother me to refer to them as female, but my wide hips have been a constant eyesore for me since my childhood.

I'm pretty much post-transition, and over the years of going through it, my perspective on being trans has changed along with my body. When I say "I'm a man" these days I do mean the actual me beyond the purely physical. Body-wise, I see mine as a mix of male and female at this point. And it will always be. Usually I'm fine with that nowadays.

I think I will just continue to let people define themselves as they wish. Some people are transgender and some are transsexual. I mostly identify as transgender, I am aware of the way I was born, but my gender doesn't mesh with my body. Causing great distress. Especially when my body does things that are specifically male. I have always called myself a half and half. But my experience is just that mine. I won't define others anymore than I want them defining me. That's just my opinion.


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Yes it is not a popular view of things, but I agree with you. Just would never have the courage to say it out aloud in some tg support group.

But for example, the breasts that I have are nothing more than decorations, they serve no real purpose, I couldn´t feed even a guinea-pig with them. And no, don´t tell me to trigger milk with some medication...it is not the same thing and missing certain vital things from the milk, which are added during the moment you give birth...

I can appear as female...and that unfortuantely is all I can do. The body is what it is, cannot help it that much.

Better that than being dead, but still...

Quote from: SeptagonScars on May 24, 2018, 08:50:05 PM
I agree with you 100%. I see my gender at nothing but male, but that my body's biological sex is female no matter what I try to do about that. Sometimes that gets me down, but for me it's really just a fact, and appearing male is ultimately more important to me than what my chromosomes tell me my sex is. (I know for a fact I'm XX, cause it was tested.)

That's why I prefer to call myself a transsexual man instead of transgender, cause well my gender is fixed and not in any sort of transition. It's always been male. My sex however, although cannot be literally changed, was in transition from female to appearing male.

I came out as trans and started finding language for that in 2009 and back then was before the general language about trans terms had started changing to what's more commonly used now. So I have an "older" language for how I'm trans, than perhaps most of my peers do.

At this point I think I look mostly male, but my hips and genitals look and are female. Having female genitals does not bother me anymore, nor does it bother me to refer to them as female, but my wide hips have been a constant eyesore for me since my childhood.

I'm pretty much post-transition, and over the years of going through it, my perspective on being trans has changed along with my body. When I say "I'm a man" these days I do mean the actual me beyond the purely physical. Body-wise, I see mine as a mix of male and female at this point. And it will always be. Usually I'm fine with that nowadays.

You just explained how I feel so much better than I did. I would also like to add that I don't think it matters what anyone's sex is, well besides for medical reasons.

Quote from: Laurel D on May 24, 2018, 11:12:29 PM
I think I will just continue to let people define themselves as they wish. Some people are transgender and some are transsexual. I mostly identify as transgender, I am aware of the way I was born, but my gender doesn't mesh with my body. Causing great distress. Especially when my body does things that are specifically male. I have always called myself a half and half. But my experience is just that mine. I won't define others anymore than I want them defining me. That's just my opinion.


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I would never tell someone else how to identify or describe themselves. I mostly wanted to see if anyone shared same thoughts and to see where everyone is coming from

Transsexual men have female chromosomes and bodies (I personally haven't had the chromosomes tested but I am probably not lucky enough that it isn't XX though if it wasn't and I would know I'd celebrate the hardest I have ever had before) and that's not changeable. That's biology and a fact that shouldn't count as an unpopular opinion and that everyone who has ever taken a biology class is supposed to know. It sucks that it is how it is but that doesn't change reality and I rather accept a depressing fact that I am unable to change than denying scientific facts. And I think that people who actively  deny biology and science are primarily lying to themselves first and foremost and are trying to shun a realty that might be hurtful and hard to accept for them and they rather hide behind an illusion some ideologies offer to them than dealing with that reality.

However though that gross abomination of a body I am caught in is female - what is the whole problem to begin with as I can only see it as my mortal enemy I have to fight because of that very fact, if my body was male I would not be transsexual and there wouldn't be any suffering and problem at all - I, as a person, have never been a female per se as I am neurologically male and  females are neurologically female. That's why I can  refer to that body as a female body as it is that but I would never refer to myself now or in the past as female as I am not and never was that. 
Transsexual men are an anomaly; we are born men with a serious medical condition that made our bodies develop wrongly into the opposite direction of our brains in our mums wombs what causes gender dysphoria.

I personally don't understand and don't like the term "transgender" and it doesn't make any sense to me at all as I don't have to change my neurology because that is and always was male, I was born with my gender being male. What I am changing artificially is my anatomy as good as it is scientifically possible as that is the aspect that is wrong and has to be repaired and the anatomy is part of one's sex so what I am changing are sex characteristics. That of course doesn't mean that it is possible to change ones genetics because it's sadly not but to adjust the anatomy to the brain within the limits of possibilities.
So I am not a "transgender" but a transsexual!

I hope it is understandable what I mean and am trying to say.

Agreed with Corax, and I´m copying that text and memorizing it for myself for futher reference...just replacing man with female 

I go with science and logic which is what my first professional background was in.

Therefore if a doctor asks me my biological sex, it is female. I would be an idiot not to mention it, and also that I am on HRT and have had transsexual related operations. Disclosing my full biological and medical history regardless of my feelings is sensible so they can treat any issues properly.

For most other areas of life while I consider myself as good as male I take into account the unique nature and physical limitations (or advantages) of a female body on testosterone, and adapt.

For all philosophical and personal areas of life I consider myself male and live my life the way I see fit. I see no reason to lie to myself about how and what I was born. The body is female, the mind might even be female but seriously disrupted due to male tendencies and characteristics, and I've done what is necessary to fix these problems. If that's considered unpopular, let it be. It's the truth. My biological sex will never NOT be female. In every single cell of me there are markers - chromosomes, Barr bodies, and so on that show it.

That said there is almost no need to disclose these things outside of these sorts of discussions in normal life. It doesn't serve much purpose announcing one's origins, medical history or chromosomal make up to everyone you meet, and only confuses people. I'm a man to the people that see me in the street and talk to me on the phone, and that's good enough for those interactions. I'm a man to myself, and I'm a man to my friends. I don't need to force any more than that. 

tl;dr:

in strict medical and scientific terms = female
and in most everything else = male