There was a time when I wanted to take this to prove I wasn't trans.  Now that I am older and have submitted to dysphoria, I could care less.  What do you people think?

Bari Jo

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/an-mri-brain-scan-can-reveal-if-you-are-transgender-says-study

In my early teens I had a lot of brain scans done. The doctors saw some "anomaly" but could not really explain what it was. Too bad I don't have them anymore, would be interesting to have someone look at them with today's knowledge.

I would also caution that this may only be one aspect of being trans. I don't think anyone yet has found full scientific proof covering all variations of being transgender.

Where this will hopefully help, is to finally get rid of the "making it up" and mental health stigma. At least for the group of transgender where the brain really shows a more female architecture.

Some years ago, a team of Japanese researchers found the difference in the corpus collosum (region interconnecting the right and left hemispheres) was found to be so significantly different between a "male" and "female" wired brain that they claimed it could be used as a "clinical" diagnostic tool. Other brain regions are known to be gender dimorphic. The difference has been that while trans people tend to fit the typical neural structures of their identified gender, there is no guarantee that any one person will be 100% wired "male" or "female". This includes otherwise cisgender identifying people.
What is known, is that these regions get set by exposure to testosterone within a span of time in the second trimester. However, different regions appear to be set at slightly different developmental times.

Scientific American had a special issue last year on sex and gender.  In the article on the brain, they said that there were several different areas of the brain that were gender-dimorphic.  However, they also said that few people have all of them in agreement.  So if there were six dimorphic areas, a person might have four that were female and two that were male.  That makes it very hard to make a diagnostic test.

Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman did an episode titled 'Is there More then one sex?'. They pointed out a lot of very interesting variations in what produces gender and the different mutations in genetic code that can lead to more then the traditional accepted genders. One of the things pointed out is the portion of the brain responsible for identity of 'self' works very different in those with gender dysphoria, for a lack of better terms, it's kinda of removed from the process of identification when presented with images of self as assigned at birth vs self as identified gender. It's far from conclusive, but I would encourage anyone to watch the episode, very informative.

 I NEVER wanted proof beyond what my heart told me

Probably why I ascribe the the axiom "If you think you are trans.... You are". Being "Trans" is easy to sort out. KNOWING WHERE you are on "The Spectrum"..... Not so easy to nearly impossible for some. Including me 

I am inline with Joanne. My heart and spirit is the litmus test for me. Living as I am has taken away years of pain and isolation and has given me peace and joy beyond belief. That is all the validation that I need. On top of that, I am not sure how I would take it if, for some reason, did not show me to be what others define as woman.

Tia Anne

I'm in agreement with @JoanneB and Tia Anne.  My heart is my guide.  Too many variables.

Jess

I would rather take an MRI, than to be subjected to endless barrage of psychiatric questions and be humilated in that way, with no end in sight. The standard Finnish way...

There are definitely risks and benefits to such a method of diagnosing people.

The whole issue is so complex and there are so many variables, I can't imagine there ever only being one simple test that would boil it all down to a yes/no. Think about how many intersex conditions only show a small percentage of the time on a DNA test.

Although, in my personal situation, having a way to show my experience is "medically legitimate" would go a LONG way with easing the minds of the people closest to me. 

Maybe there's a middle ground in the future: some studies show enough evidence to shift the common paradigm toward a more sane acceptance of all kinds of transgender people. And then the issue of "proof" won't be as big of a deal.

Hi all

This is a good discussion.  I am of two minds.  One, in the end of the day my step by step and layer by layer approach to solving my anxiety and dysphoria is what ultimately matters in getting me to my happy version of me.   On the other hand, a simple test would be nice and help avoid the shame felt after dealing with judgementive therapists or worrying about societies understanding and reaction. 

In the end of the day, I am still taking one day at a time to get to my happy place and real "me".

Karen

In evaluating the sexually dimorphic REGIONS of the brain, it turns out that only about 6% of the population have a representative set of 10 regions that are all aligned with a particular gender. (This is an interesting clue towards a biological explanation of folks being nonbinary in their identities or orientations, but is really just a clue.  Correlation does not prove causation, and all that.)

There are pinpoint sexually dimorphic locations that provide a very strong correlation between representative gender and gender identity, and do not have significant overlap between genders.  These locations are places like the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis, and have been interpreted in analysis of brain tissues after death.  They are at the current limits for high resolution fMRI imaging.

A set of scans that can 'prove' someone is transgender or act as a reliable diagnostic are not quite here yet.

If we ever do reach this point, it makes me a little nervous that identifying such a specific structural variation might inspire someone to develop a 'cure' by tinkering with brain structure so that it looks 'correct' in a scan.  If such a surgery were  attempted, I suspect the damage or death of personality that would result would be undesirable for many of us. The social pressure to be so 'fixed' would also be enormous in this culture, however.  I would view such a 'correction' as little more than suicide.

And what if some test existed that said you were trans but you didn't feel  like you were? How you feel is ultimately the only important factor. I would not be comfortable with this any more than I would a "gay test"

Quote from: Michelle_P on May 25, 2018, 04:16:48 PM

If we ever do reach this point, it makes me a little nervous that identifying such a specific structural variation might inspire someone to develop a 'cure' by tinkering with brain structure so that it looks 'correct' in a scan.  If such a surgery were  attempted, I suspect the damage or death of personality that would result would be undesirable for many of us. The social pressure to be so 'fixed' would also be enormous in this culture, however.  I would view such a 'correction' as little more than suicide.

My guess would be that by the time that we're possible, the social pressure to "fix" someone would be gone in much of the world. Or maybe I'm too optimistic.

Quote from: Kylo on May 25, 2018, 05:43:32 PM
And what if some test existed that said you were trans but you didn't feel  like you were? How you feel is ultimately the only important factor. I would not be comfortable with this any more than I would a "gay test"

Then probably nothing would happen if you didn't feel anything. My right eye is farsighted and my left eye is nearsighted, my binocular vision is 20/20 so every doctor I've seen has said if it isn't bothering me I don't need to do anything about it.

My heart told me years ago but unfortunately my head got in the way. More specifically everyone else's head. I was good with it many many years ago. But it was another time and different circumstances.  I am just grateful to spend my twilight years with my actions being in sync with my instincts. Best thing? No more stress, guilt, self hate and depression. I actually feel normal for once.

Quote from: Karen on May 25, 2018, 03:30:48 PM
Hi all

This is a good discussion.  I am of two minds.  One, in the end of the day my step by step and layer by layer approach to solving my anxiety and dysphoria is what ultimately matters in getting me to my happy version of me.   On the other hand, a simple test would be nice and help avoid the shame felt after dealing with judgementive therapists or worrying about societies understanding and reaction. 

In the end of the day, I am still taking one day at a time to get to my happy place and real "me".

Karen

I am also "of two minds" on this.

We don't need conclusive proof as we know in our spirit.

However some proof/evidence would help educate over time those of the "opposition" to trans matters who are willing to listen.

Pamela