So I was read recently by a cis man. I asked him how he figured it out and he told me it was nothing in particular, it was just a feeling he had (what I have dubbed the "trans vibe").

Admittedly, I find this phenomenon quite frustrating, because even when I look/sound/act like a cis woman sometimes people just think "oh, I think maybe she's a transsexual."

Thoughts? What is it? Is it uncanny valley (I hope not, because that almost implies a certain artificiality to my appearance/behavior)? Is it culture? Do we act a certain way or project an energy that differs from cis women?

Anyone else been plagued this phenomenon?

Never heard that one. My friend says you can always tell a trans girl because she has a back like a bullfrog, no ass, and great legs. 

Quote from: nightingale95 on June 12, 2018, 11:49:59 AM
So I was read recently by a cis man. I asked him how he figured it out and he told me it was nothing in particular, it was just a feeling he had (what I have dubbed the "trans vibe").

Admittedly, I find this phenomenon quite frustrating, because even when I look/sound/act like a cis woman sometimes people just think "oh, I think maybe she's a transsexual."

Thoughts? What is it? Is it uncanny valley (I hope not, because that almost implies a certain artificiality to my appearance/behavior)? Is it culture? Do we act a certain way or project an energy that differs from cis women?

Anyone else been plagued this phenomenon?

Maybe its having that slightly uneasy response.. laughing a little too much, smiling a little too frequently. Anything can be overdone and seem 'forced'. 

I don't buy a trans vibe though.. Personally someone that told me that is probably being a dick and not helping you any anyways.  Like, oh, nothing you can do will fix you you'll always be that is what he's saying.  Screw him, move on, clean slate.

Quote from: Devlyn on June 12, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Never heard that one. My friend says you can always tell a trans girl because she has a back like a bullfrog, no ass, and great legs. 

Well I don't think that one really applies here lol

The only "tell" I was informed of was that my hips were a little narrow but not dramatically so, and they spotted my tiny neck bump when I lifted my head. But for this guy it wasn't even that, he just "knew"?

Though it could all be bull->-bleeped-<- and hindsight bias.

Quote from: nightingale95 on June 12, 2018, 01:00:47 PM
Well I don't think that one really applies here lol

The only "tell" I was informed of was that my hips were a little narrow but not dramatically so, and they spotted my tiny neck bump when I lifted my head. But for this guy it wasn't even that, he just "knew"?

Though it could all be bull->-bleeped-<- and hindsight bias.

I just think of what a typical 'normal' girl (aka cis) would be if some dude accused her.  Either royally pissed or make it all a huge joke.. or something inbetween.  Most likely tell them to .... off.  Seems like an appropriate response.

Personally I don't believe this dude, I think he just made that up. I've got a cis woman friend who goes to the same TG friendly bar as I do and she's been assumed to be transgender several times. It's because she's out of context and like I said once before peoples lack of observation amazes me. I get the feeling that when the human brain doesn't see quite what it is expecting or something is missing it fills in with what it thinks it ought to be. Justine x

I think most of us, even those who pass well, have a few "tells".  For MTFs, they are typically things like broad shoulders, narrow hips, poor posture.  A voice that may have its fundamental pitch in the female range, but still has masculine resonances.  There are many things about most of us that give clues.  Passing involves giving people enough feminine "tells" to persuade them to gender us as female.  Sometimes people notice the clues we don't want them to and guess.

I heard one poorly informed guy say that only cis women had small boobs.  Presumably he thought that we all bought our breasts either as implants or inserts, and no one would choose small ones.  The good news is that there is something good about only having A-cups!   

The subconscious is extremely adept at picking up on things that we don't immediately notice. Almost psychically so. Of everything we feel about things in every day life, a large majority of that comes from the subconscious seeing and interpreting things that are too small, or too fast for our sluggish conscious mind to pay attention to. It's how subliminal messages work.

Whether it's "vibes" or not, I can't say for sure. But one thing I can say is that we pick up on body language and how people behave way, WAY faster than how they look. I would guess it's an evolutionary remnant to determine whether the toothy, bitey thing is going to rip our throats out or slink back off into the shadows. We've had to learn to be extremely fast at getting a "feeling" for things.

Call it a gut instinct if you like. Someone's appearance is not nearly as important as how they appear to act, in our mind's determination of what they're all about. Which is something to think about. You can be the most flawless, ultimate embodiment of what you think someone should be... but if you act like you have something to hide, or you're unsure, or you think everyone is trying to figure you out... the red flags start flying. Whether those flags are accurate or not.

I am aware that people that have lived in areas are there is a decent concentration of trans folk have developed their ways of being able to tell if someone is trans, but at the risk of assuming people are trans when they are not. If a woman is taller than 5'6", they might be "read", whether they are trans or not. When I lived in San Francisco, a woman taller than 6' was read as trans, even tho she was 8 months pregnant, largely because she was downtown. All she was doing was waiting in line, quietly. But, she stormed off in a huff after a jerk insisted she was a man.

Never put too much credit towards the so called instincts of jerks that think they know everything.

I've seen trans women and men and I've been able to tell. For the trans women it's usually a combination of their faces and bodies. One trans woman seemed very thin and her face just didn't fill out, so even with long hair you could tell the bone structure was that of amab. The 2nd was similar, and also her build (broader shoulders and no hips) and hands.
Sorry if this offends anyone but that's just my observations.
The trans man it was his face, small/svelte build and mostly his voice.

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We need to accept that we are trans, and stop being embarrassed about it; I'm not saying we should go around telling everyone we meet (you can if you would like to though) we are trans, but we are who we are.  When we attain self-acceptance we take away the power from people who try to demoralize us, and we gain the power to love ourselves as we are. There is nothing wrong with being a trans , and we should never be ashamed of who we are.   

Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on June 12, 2018, 08:07:01 PM
We need to accept that we are trans, and stop being embarrassed about it; I'm not saying we should go around telling everyone we meet (you can if you would like to though) we are trans, but we are who we are.  When we attain self-acceptance we take away the power from people who try to demoralize us, and we gain the power to love ourselves as we are. There is nothing wrong with being a trans , and we should never be ashamed of who we are.

The problem is that it's something that people feel a constant need to single us out for. Whether their intentions are benign or not the whole idea that we are this special kind of person that gets picked out from the others is aggravating. Also, it feels like these folks are suddenly informed about my medical history!

How do you think a cancer patient feels if they're outed in public? It's something that should be no one's business and yet people like to make it their business even if it's to extend "condolences" (or, in our case, "affirmations").

Quote from: nightingale95 on June 12, 2018, 08:24:56 PM
The problem is that it's something that people feel a constant need to single us out for. Whether their intentions are benign or not the whole idea that we are this special kind of person that gets picked out from the others is aggravating. Also, it feels like these folks are suddenly informed about my medical history!

How do you think a cancer patient feels if they're outed in public? It's something that should be no one's business and yet people like to make it their business even if it's to extend "condolences" (or, in our case, "affirmations").

OMG, do you go outside at all? Cancer survivors ribbons are everywhere. I  don't believe you even just said that.

Quote from: nightingale95 on June 12, 2018, 08:24:56 PM
The problem is that it's something that people feel a constant need to single us out for. Whether their intentions are benign or not the whole idea that we are this special kind of person that gets picked out from the others is aggravating. Also, it feels like these folks are suddenly informed about my medical history!

How do you think a cancer patient feels if they're outed in public? It's something that should be no one's business and yet people like to make it their business even if it's to extend "condolences" (or, in our case, "affirmations").

I understand that you want your privacy to be respected, and I don't like it either when people don't respect boundaries, but if someone means well, I'm not going to call them out on it, but I will try to politely shorten my interaction with them.

Mmmmm, from my observations of life. I sum it down to
1. Physical Appearance
2. Demeanor
3. Environment

Now which one gave you away, if he cannot explain it, then either, he is guessing you, or he's too dumb to explain it anyway. Now, to really explain it, you need to be articulate. I don't believe this gay/trans/bi vibe lingo. Its a cop out for, I can't really explain it, since I don't have the words for it, hence lacking in articulateness.

I've met TG/gay/bi people who you would not guess in a million years, by those 3 factors above, since they don't stand out in the 3 factors above. And as MissyMay2.0 explained it, that guy is being a bonehead, in being mean to you.

I think it's basically Gaydar.
For whatever reason, we are on a similar "wavelength" as lgb people.   Some people, more often lgbt people, but also some str8s,  can just sense it.  I can say for me it's like a "disturbance in the force."   I know that is geeky and non-scientific, but it's like that for me. 

In the end, Missy is 100% right.  We have to love ourselves and each other.   We need to realize this is who we are and we have a right to basic human respect and dignity. 

Quick story.

I work at a company that had two trans people one female one male.  There are about 7000 people in local offices. 

I didn't know who the guy was as he was stealth, and good deep stealth. 

He walked into a bar during the retirement party for the transwoman.  There were probably 50 people there.  And I picked him out immediately.  He made a hand gesture that screamed woman.

Now I know who it is.

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"Man hands" are a big giveaway.  Big, meaty, paws.
Also, tons of others.  If someone it looking for it, they'll probably find it.
My advice. Just be happy being you.

Quote from: nightingale95 on June 12, 2018, 11:49:59 AM
So I was read recently by a cis man. I asked him how he figured it out and he told me it was nothing in particular, it was just a feeling he had (what I have dubbed the "trans vibe").

Admittedly, I find this phenomenon quite frustrating, because even when I look/sound/act like a cis woman sometimes people just think "oh, I think maybe she's a transsexual."

Thoughts? What is it? Is it uncanny valley (I hope not, because that almost implies a certain artificiality to my appearance/behavior)? Is it culture? Do we act a certain way or project an energy that differs from cis women?

Anyone else been plagued this phenomenon?

Not "passing" can suck, especially when it enforces dysphoric ideations you have about certain aspects of your body/anatomy...There are trans women that are more comfortable when it comes to carrying the weight of transphobia not-passing can put on an individual, and I respect them for that. Though not being recognised as your gender identity day-to-day is incredibly depressing...I'm sorry you had experience that

anastasia

Quote from: nightingale95 on June 12, 2018, 11:49:59 AM
So I was read recently by a cis man. I asked him how he figured it out and he told me it was nothing in particular, it was just a feeling he had (what I have dubbed the "trans vibe").

Admittedly, I find this phenomenon quite frustrating, because even when I look/sound/act like a cis woman sometimes people just think "oh, I think maybe she's a transsexual."

Thoughts? What is it? Is it uncanny valley (I hope not, because that almost implies a certain artificiality to my appearance/behavior)? Is it culture? Do we act a certain way or project an energy that differs from cis women?

Anyone else been plagued this phenomenon?

Yup. Me too, early on.

Like everyone has mentioned, there are a myriad of "tells": man hands, skinny hips, coarse facial features. We all work as hard as we can to minimize them.

You can call it gay-dar, trans-vibe, whatever. In a sense, it does exist.

It stems from the virtue that established humans as the apex predator on the planet. We're more adept at assimilating, assessing, and categorizing patterns than any other living species. It's a valuable talent; but, like any tool it can do good or bad.

I don't limit myself to gay bars or trans-friendly establishments but I do avoid biker bars and REAL REDNECK establishments.  Why invite disaster? By the way, I live in South Texas where the redneck ratio per capita is at least as dense as anywhere else in the country. Unforgiving rednecks.

On the infrequent occasion that I am clocked it has never resulted in aggression or animosity. More often as curiosity (enlightening people only helps our cause) or intrigue.

I present as a strong self-confident woman. Cis-males and cis-females are, apparently, very intrigued by such women.

Typically we chat for a while, I usually give a generalized explanation of dysphoria (if necessary) and explain that what I'm undertaking now is not a choice (the uninitiated almost always ask, "Why did you choose ...?"). I explain that the choice was made several decades ago by a very young, naive person and that I've decided to stop choosing; to end the farce. To no longer don a manufactured persona every morning.

They are almost always polite, understanding, and supportive. And when we part ways our ally count increases by one. And, they'll usually buy me a drink or two while we talk; if nothing else, it's good for that. LOL

I am transgender. Even post-op I'll never be cis-female. I am though at least as attractive and feminine as most of the cis-femmes I know. And women (natal) are always making comments like "I love your hair." as we wash our hands before leaving the restroom. (I never mention it was $39.00 mail order -- my natural hair, what's left of it, is NOT good.)

If I were to be confronted with aggression, I'd call a cop (in four years of going out, first in drag and now as myself, it's never happened). Short of that I can do a little PR for "our side" and maybe make some new friends in the process.

I've stopped worrying about being read.

Now I just worry about making it through the rest of life, like everybody else. (Well, maybe I worry a little about how I'm going to afford surgery but that's on me.)

And that, on it's own, is difficult enough.