I've been asked to help write the employment and work policies for gender diverse people for the University that I am associated with. This is in part to submit as part of the Athen SWAN submission that I believe is quite common in Europe as well as in Australian academic employment places. I'm unsure if it is in the USA or other countries. However it gives a chance to reflect on broad policy that places of employment should have for all staff, no matter their gender or sexuality.

I've put together a few points and would love some feedback on things that I am missing or points that are inequitable.

In no order:

Hiring and promotion:  explicit commitments to hiring women and trans people to positions usually favoured/reserved for cisgender males.
Gender information is only collected if required, Hence in most cases it would not be collected
Computer and HR records updated to use gender neutral pronouns for all staff
All staff have access to gender neutral bathrooms.
New buildings would aim for gender-neutral, single use,  bathrooms with access for wheelchair/mobility impaired people at each bathroom complex.
Existing buildings should be examined for what bathrooms can be rebadged as gender-neutral and which could be targeted for alterations.
Change rooms/ showers etc covered in the same way.
Gender neutral language encouraged. This should be a default for teaching staff.
Equity and diversity training for all staff to include trans issues and such training compulsory as part of WH&S.

There is already zero tolerance for discrimination so that is a given.

I realise this is targeted to University/College environment but I see no reason why this should not be adopted in the corporate world.

Comments and opinions welcome (and no political arguments)

Hi Cindy,

For me there are a few things that sit uncomfortably.

We are looking for folk to respect and use our choice of pronouns, we must respect and use their choice of pronouns in return - mutual respect brings openness to change, enforced imposition will bring resistance, in unpleasant ways either within a records system or in the coffee room. Why not collect preferred pronouns, instead of gender - they tell a more complete story.

Equity is the antithesis of positive discrimination. If you are being equitable, then all are equally valid. If there is a lack of equity or diversity, then it is easily measurable, and correctable through recruitment training and ongoing monitoring (personal accountability for those with responsibility for appointment).  Make it a practice of we know that we are all equally capable, so why aren't we equally represented, and you'll go a lot further that institutional do and do not rules, which encourage a tag team approach to find ways of circumventing the do nots...

Life is richer with colour and diversity, innovation is stimulated, and cultural responsiveness improved - you want folk to be encouraged, supported and most of all seen within your organisation. You're wanting folk to actively engage and participate. They will do neither if they feel that they are being sanitised, or policed in a manner that doesn't encourage the field to bloom.


(Hugs)


Rowan

Cindy,

"Gender neutral language encouraged. This should be a default for teaching staff."

   I am trying to understand what this would look like. Could you give an example, maybe a before and after statement. I am conscious of a few things here. First, backlash. When the ruling authority in New York tried to outlaw a certain size of soda, for example, it became kind of a rally point for 'political correctness run amok' cries. It was seen as too intrusive or overbearing, and fed into the 'majority as victim' phenomenon seen in the US a lot. Second, personally, I wouldn't want a gender sanitized system, I would prefer a gender respected system. I don't envy what you are trying to do, but these are my thoughts on the matter.

I have to agree with Rowan. I am not sure using only neutral pronouns will be helpful to our cause. Germany had implemented rules on "gender-neutral language" which did backfire quite a bit and led to really comical situations where all kind of words all the sudden where spelled as female/male variant no matter if it makes sense or not.

I do think not collecting or using gender-specific information may be a better approach. I do like that US airline tickets have now dropped the gender specifications and I really stumbled when the ticket printed in Germany all the sudden had MR and MRS on it. Not having it on the ticket is a much better approach.

I do believe strict rules about non-discrimination based on age, race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation and a few more are unfortunately a requirement. It should be just a societal consensus but unfortunately, it is not. Again, everyone needs to be treated equal (I remember firing a white caucasian male did not require anything but letting anyone else go required 10 additional forms and questions to avoid an anti-discrimination lawsuit, so to some degree that was discrimination too).

I have very split opinions on the gender-neutral bathrooms. I have one customer where I am forced to use the one and only gender-neutral bathroom in the facility and I do believe it is to some degree discrimination too. Usually, there is a 10 - 15-minute wait since all kind of people enjoy the piece of a single stall room. And it is quite a walk to get there and back from where I usually work. The next ladies room is 10 seconds away...

I know I am somewhat alone with this opinion and of course, a gender-neutral bathroom is preferred over the wrong bathroom. For newly built facilities, enforcing gender-neutral bathrooms only may be a good option. So I guess having them is fine but then there should also be clear guidance allowing to use the bathroom of one's gender identity.

I do agree that training should include a session for transgender. It makes a great difference.

I do want to add that HR systems, as well as student record systems, should allow for preferred gender and pronouns. Pronouns should allow for a type-in choice.  Student record systems should also allow easy access to reprint documents after a gender change (My brother just sent me a screenshot of his schools system which just added such an option). In HR systems this comes at some added complication of having to differentiate between the legal and the preferred name.

Lastly, there should be a good policy on how to handle a person's transition. Almost like a flowchart of steps to take.

Sarah

I work in a university, a very big one, and we don't have a detailed policy like the one Cindy is building in regards to staff. They bend over backwards for students, offering full trans inclusive healthcare insurance, but not for staff. When I asked about what's covered in healthcare, I didn't get a response from hr. I had to contact the equity office and they made hr return my call as it were. We have over 23,000 employees. My guess is that equates to at least 200-230 transgender people, but there doesn't seem to be a way to unite us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

A policy statement that covers the appeal process when the rights of one person are violated by the other person. It can be easy for a person in power or by getting a person off in an isolate area to commit a violation and never have to pay the consequences so the aggressor needs to be made aware that this type of behavior will not be tolerated for any reason. We are all adults and something like this should never be needed but unfortunately it is.

Thank you everyone.

The points put forward have come from the committee before I joined and I think that I'm going to have to be the voice of moderation (OMG not again!). I'm the only open transgender person the others are academics who work/ have an interest in the area. The controversial areas are coming from them and I think that there is a bit of University politics coming into play. They are very supportive of gender diversity but may also see this as an opportunity for career advancement through committee.

The concept of gender neutral bathrooms is to replace all facilities with gender neutral. Hence there are no male or female, just gender neutral that cater for all. This is not uncommon in Europe and indeed many of the large entertainment areas in Adelaide have gender neutral bathrooms and all of the (new) public conveniences in Adelaide are automatic self-cleaning gender neutral toilets so it isn't particularly new concept here.

Gender neutral language is of course common. We are not supposed to have chairmen and policemen etc.

I'm use to using gender neutral pronouns in teaching so I do use they or them, it grates a bit but I'm OK with it.
As Zirconia mentioned, using the preferred pronoun can be a nightmare, I do recall a committee meeting at the National LGBTIQA association at which we were asked to state our preferred pronouns, there were maybe 15 people several of whom had variations of gender neutral pronouns that they preferred, it became impossible to remember which pronoun to use for a person, so we sat around with a little sign in front of each of us with our preferred pronouns posted.  Obviously this does not work in real life.

So what I have to do is propose model that either satisfies all or a model that people can get use to, a model that can be adaptable and has protection for those who need it but is 'sufferable' to those who do not.
No one in my work environment is going to discriminate against me more than once but I need a model that protects those who are vulnerable and that allows them to develop safely.

Dena brings up an extremely important point. Anti-discrimination structures and rules can take the side of the 'victim' as a given. It is not always clear who is the victim. I am very aware of what has happened to people who have been falsely accused of sexual assault and in one case a person who I knew was falsely incriminated over child pornography. The effect on these innocent people was catastrophic and to be honest the resolution are utterly inadequate. Safeguards have to be ironclad.

Gertrude, the system we have in place at my University covers staff as well as students. OK our health care system is utterly different to the USA and isn't dependent upon the place of employment but all of the discrimination protections we give to students are given to staff. We run what is called an Ally system.  The vice chancellor is the head Ally and has a allies in each school or area. We are either gender diverse or sympathetic. We have training courses in equity and diversity and we are the focal point for staff or students to come to if they have a problem in the area. We have a reporting mechanism that works and our doors are open.
I have staff, students and even visiting persons calling in for a chat over something that concerns them. It isn't perfect but it is working and being built on.



Please keep the comments coming!

<Quote removed>

It's pretty thoughless to post that here, don't you think? This is a place of support for people who use those pronouns.

Quote from: zirconia on July 02, 2018, 07:18:43 AM
Devlyn, my apologies. I thought it would be all right to tell Cindy because she asked for comments and opinions, but you're right—I should have sent them as a private message rather than as a post on the forum. I've removed both my first post and the follow-up.

Thank you, I've edited my post as well. Perhaps a little introspection about your opinion, though? We all deserve to be who we are, and you were advocating against that.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Cindy on July 01, 2018, 03:30:05 AM
I've put together a few points and would love some feedback on things that I am missing or points that are inequitable.

If I may be permitted...
I wholeheartedly agree with some of the suggestions and disagree with others.

"Gender information is only collected if required, Hence in most cases it would not be collected" seems to conflict a bit with "Computer and HR records updated to use gender neutral pronouns for all staff[.]" The only way the pronouns of record could be updated is, by definition, if the data is collected in the first place.

Like Sno and Moni, "Gender neutral language encouraged. This should be a default for teaching staff," rubs me the wrong way. My preferred pronouns are she and her andMs. - I am neither a they nor a them but fully respect and honor those for whom it is a preference. What is wrong with letting a person make their own selection? What is equitable is a person's self perception. If I cringe at misgendering, why should I accept "disgendering?" Were you to do this to me, I would stop you to ask I be addressed properly.

Susan

"The concept of gender neutral bathrooms is to replace all facilities with gender neutral. Hence there are no male or female, just gender neutral that cater for all. This is not uncommon in Europe and indeed many of the large entertainment areas in Adelaide have gender neutral bathrooms and all of the (new) public conveniences in Adelaide are automatic self-cleaning gender neutral toilets so it isn't particularly new concept here."  Quoted from Cindy.

So, am curious, is this referring to the single bathroom spaces or the larger bathroom spaces as well? In other words, in larger bathroom facilities, do men and women use the same room? If so, how are urinals handled? This is blowing my small American mind!

I apologize to members who had posts they deleted restored without their permission. I have made clear to staff that if you choose to remove a post during the window you are authorized to do so on your own that it is not subject to any but the highest review.

Again to all affected members you have my apology.

On the subject of pronouns we all do our best. Expressing personal discomfort should not be considered a bad thing provided that everyone is allowed to identify as they best see fit, and they are not being intentionally misgendered.

People should be able to request the appropriate form of address for themselves be used and as a simple matter of respect their wishes should be followed. With that being said they should be understanding if people slip up from time to time as long as it is not being done out of malice.

As I said in my coming out letter.

QuoteI am getting my name legally changed, So I ask that everyone please either use female pronouns (she, her, hers, herself), or if that distresses you for whatever reason gender neutral pronouns (they, them, their, theirs, themselves) are also acceptable.

Quote from: Susan Baum on July 02, 2018, 10:06:28 AM

Quote from: Cindy on July 01, 2018, 03:30:05 AM
I've put together a few points and would love some feedback on things that I am missing or points that are inequitable.

If I may be permitted...
I wholeheartedly agree with some of the suggestions and disagree with others.

"Gender information is only collected if required, Hence in most cases it would not be collected" seems to conflict a bit with "Computer and HR records updated to use gender neutral pronouns for all staff[.]" The only way the pronouns of record could be updated is, by definition, if the data is collected in the first place.

Like Sno and Moni, "Gender neutral language encouraged. This should be a default for teaching staff," rubs me the wrong way. My preferred pronouns are she and her andMs. - I am neither a they nor a them but fully respect and honor those for whom it is a preference. What is wrong with letting a person make their own selection? What is equitable is a person's self perception. If I cringe at misgendering, why should I accept "disgendering?" Were you to do this to me, I would stop you to ask I be addressed properly.

Susan

The only way the pronouns of record could be updated is, by definition, if the data is collected in the first place.
Yes very true! The comment came from an observation from a NB colleague on the committee and their preferred pronouns were collected from their webpage by the University staff computer system without them having to inform the HR department etc that they had preferred pronouns. Hence, it was taken as sign by the committee that the system was capable of picking referred pronouns and reporting them accurately without the information having to be specifically collected.  My listing came out as Dr Cindy is in room XYZ and she etc. My colleagues came out as Dr Colleague is in room ABC and they etc. What we would like is for he/she/they to be able to be replaced with ze, hir, ei, and so on. I'm not sure if this will be possible; just try spell checking that sentence.

Of course and let me make this very clear. It is an absolute that an individuals preferred pronouns are used. In my own open teaching sessions I only use gender neutral pronouns of they, them etc and in small group or one to one situations I use the person's name.

Quote from: HappyMoni on July 02, 2018, 11:04:49 AM
"The concept of gender neutral bathrooms is to replace all facilities with gender neutral. Hence there are no male or female, just gender neutral that cater for all. This is not uncommon in Europe and indeed many of the large entertainment areas in Adelaide have gender neutral bathrooms and all of the (new) public conveniences in Adelaide are automatic self-cleaning gender neutral toilets so it isn't particularly new concept here."  Quoted from Cindy.

So, am curious, is this referring to the single bathroom spaces or the larger bathroom spaces as well? In other words, in larger bathroom facilities, do men and women use the same room? If so, how are urinals handled? This is blowing my small American mind!

Yep. Urinals are along one wall, stalls are along another, sometimes there is a half wall separating the two with basins etc. It isn't an issue.
I realise that in countries that are unused to the system that it can be alarming. In countries where it occurs it is just normal. I've used mixed showers and changing rooms and to be honest I thought the it makes people a lot more considerate. 
Yes the showers have doors and are individual.

The base for such changes were to encourage promoting the individual for their ability rather than getting tied up on gender identification. It came from the need in promoting women in academia but the importance of promoting people no matter their gender or identification has thankfully been acknowledged.
The changes and concepts as far as records and facilities are really only there to make the environment encouraging and accepting and to allow people to be able to reach their potential rather than that potential being constrained by gender identification.

What I was also after was comment on what else needs to be in place in the work environment to give and equal opportunity for gender diverse people, not only academia but also in work places generally. Universities are a relatively easy place or model to develop change as they are open to discussion and new ideas. The thought is of course that these concepts would eventually trickle down into the rest of society after trial and modification in an environment where change should be possible.