anyone else go round and round unable to work out if;

a) gender dysphoria is causing my depression and anxiety

or

b) depression and anxiety is causing my gender dysphoria

I know I suffer both..but is one merely a symptom and one the root cause?
A therapist once told me not to regret avoiding transition 20 years ago because if I'd really wanted to then I would have. Therefore I wonder if I'm just wishing I was a different gender to hide from life.

Therapy hasn't worked. Medication hasn't worked. I haven't resolved anything in 20 years - and to transition is an almighty gamble as it ends my life as I know it forever.

I met a group of non-binary people last week and I was disappointed in my own head that I just didn't "get" them. How can you be nothing/everything. If I fail to understand them, that's another reason to doubt I'm transgender at all.

I would say they influence and feed each other, from my experience. HRT did have a massive effect for me on reducing anxiety and depression though. I think the wrong hormones in the blood are major culprits

Most biologists accept that gender identity is not something you can acquire.  You are born with it and can't change it.  So, if you have gender dysphoria, it isn't caused by something else.  On the other hand, anxiety can certainly be caused by gender dysphoria.

Don't regret putting off transition for 20 years.  Many of us did that.  It's not that we didn't want to; it's that we weren't ready.  If you are ready now, go for it.  If you need to wait a bit longer, that's cool.  If you never transition, that's fine, too, and it doesn't mean you aren't trans or that your dysphoria isn't real.

I have trouble understanding what it would be like to be non-binary.  That just means that I'm not non-binary.  It doesn't mean you aren't trans, just that you aren't non-binary.

Hi Sarah,

This is something I can relate to.

Im not particularly high on the anxiety or the depression quotient, but I can be obsessive, I can be very anxious, sometimes paranoid, ruminate a lot, and have possible mild autism.

Im always borderline everything, just never enough to tip anything over the balance.

I often feel I am everything, but in being everything, Im nothing. I have no identity. No desires. No will. It gives me no direction. I try to do something and get bored very quickly. It's either because Im bored, or because I've lived it in my head and the reality doesn't match up to the expectation.

I've tried so many things over the years, but nothing seems to work. I just feel lost!

Similar to you though, are my transgender thoughts obsessional in nature, the latest fad as my friends would say, or do they go deeper. Much deeper?

It's not like taking a pottery class. Sure you can go to some social groups and/or support groups, you can even get counselling. But the hard part, you won't know until you try. Because it's not like taking a pottery class, you risk alienating people. It might mean wearing different clothes, acting a different way, it might mean taking hormones, doing something non-reversible just to find out.

To me that scares me senseless. Im going to try with the first three and go with there.

There must be some way to explore the my other side privately.

Quote from: Sarah77 on July 09, 2018, 08:55:47 AM
anyone else go round and round unable to work out if;

a) gender dysphoria is causing my depression and anxiety

or

b) depression and anxiety is causing my gender dysphoria

I know I suffer both..but is one merely a symptom and one the root cause?
A therapist once told me not to regret avoiding transition 20 years ago because if I'd really wanted to then I would have. Therefore I wonder if I'm just wishing I was a different gender to hide from life.

Therapy hasn't worked. Medication hasn't worked. I haven't resolved anything in 20 years - and to transition is an almighty gamble as it ends my life as I know it forever.

I met a group of non-binary people last week and I was disappointed in my own head that I just didn't "get" them. How can you be nothing/everything. If I fail to understand them, that's another reason to doubt I'm transgender at all.

You can be depressed because you experience gender dysphoria, that seems reasonable as a lot of transgender individuals experience increased levels of depression as reflected in the suicide rates etc. Whether that's a direct result of being transgender, or experiencing increased levels of abuse and stigmatisation as the result of being transgender, or both, I'm unsure.

I find it difficult to imagine you can experience gender dysphoria as a result of being depressed. Starting from a hypothetical point where depression precedes gender dysphoria, one could essentially treat both conditions with an antidepressant. You could test it by explaining this to your GP, taking antidepressants, and seeing if your notions of gender dysphoria decrease/disappear with depression. As someone that has in the past taken anti-depressants while experiencing gender dysphoria, it seems unlikely that it will.

It's okay to not understand something provided you can accept it on the premise it doesn't harm/affect you. From my understanding non-binary is an umbrella term used to identify people that aren't comfortable identifying as either gender.

Quote from: Kylo on July 09, 2018, 08:59:25 AM
I would say they influence and feed each other, from my experience. HRT did have a massive effect for me on reducing anxiety and depression though. I think the wrong hormones in the blood are major culprits

This is a good post.  I originally started with depression counseling.  So far depression medication wipes me out along with sexual obsessions too.  Cant live life like that!  But I am willing to see if the hormones could be as you say the culprits.  For me it is a mixed bag.  For some in groups they know what they need/want but for ones like us it is not easy. 

Sarah, it think there is hope if we keep on tract and seek.  Thanks again for your post.   

Quote from: Sarah77 on July 09, 2018, 08:55:47 AM
anyone else go round and round unable to work out if;

a) gender dysphoria is causing my depression and anxiety

or

b) depression and anxiety is causing my gender dysphoria

I know I suffer both..but is one merely a symptom and one the root cause?
A therapist once told me not to regret avoiding transition 20 years ago because if I'd really wanted to then I would have. Therefore I wonder if I'm just wishing I was a different gender to hide from life.

Therapy hasn't worked. Medication hasn't worked. I haven't resolved anything in 20 years - and to transition is an almighty gamble as it ends my life as I know it forever.

I met a group of non-binary people last week and I was disappointed in my own head that I just didn't "get" them. How can you be nothing/everything. If I fail to understand them, that's another reason to doubt I'm transgender at all.

Sarah,
   My take on things is this. I think gender dysphoria is a reaction to not being born in the right gender. When fixing what needs to get fixed doesn't happen, anxiety and depression are sparked. It can become one confusing mess. Of course people can be depressed and anxious over other things, so it can be two distinct issues. I really doubt depression causes dysphoria though. As for your last statement, Sarah, I don't relate to non binary at all and I am definitely  transgender (transsexual in my case.) It doesn't invalidate your feelings. If it helps, I was lost in doubt for 50 years and found resolution in my transition. Never give up. If you are afraid of messing up your present life on something as unsure as committing to transition, you need more information. Go out of town, experiment in your preferred gender and see how it feels. Information from actual experiences can give you more feedback than all the therapy and its theories of what is right for you. I learned so much by watching how I felt when perceived by others as female. Want proof? Look at your own experience. You found out from one experience that non binary is not for you. That looks like progress to me. Now find what is right.
Moni

Quote from: Sarah77 on July 09, 2018, 08:55:47 AM
anyone else go round and round unable to work out if;

a) gender dysphoria is causing my depression and anxiety

or

b) depression and anxiety is causing my gender dysphoria

I know I suffer both..but is one merely a symptom and one the root cause?
A therapist once told me not to regret avoiding transition 20 years ago because if I'd really wanted to then I would have. Therefore I wonder if I'm just wishing I was a different gender to hide from life.

Therapy hasn't worked. Medication hasn't worked. I haven't resolved anything in 20 years - and to transition is an almighty gamble as it ends my life as I know it forever.

I met a group of non-binary people last week and I was disappointed in my own head that I just didn't "get" them. How can you be nothing/everything. If I fail to understand them, that's another reason to doubt I'm transgender at all.

Hello Sarah

I think (b) is extremely unlikely virtually impossible.

I think (a) is likely as most of us with GD are also depressed as a result.

However please consider (c): (a) applies for the most part but you are also depressed anyway irrespective of (a) for other reasons but less major ones.

I believe a gender therapist should be able to clarify this and if (a) or (c) applies, then they should advise possible courses of action as you are transgender in either case.

I hope you find resolution.

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: HappyMoni on July 09, 2018, 12:59:50 PM
If you are afraid of messing up your present life on something as unsure as committing to transition, you need more information. Go out of town, experiment in your preferred gender and see how it feels. Information from actual experiences can give you more feedback than all the therapy and its theories of what is right for you. I learned so much by watching how I felt when perceived by others as female.

Moni, great advice ! I agree!!!

always such wise advice on this board. it's easier for others to see clarity in your life than yourself, I find.

two things have always and continue to stop me even trying proper transition

a) My wife. I feel I owe her the loyalty of our wedding vows and she is utterly, utterly against transition. Selfishly I prefer the security of my wife and kids being with me.

b) Money. I have a good job..I play the Lotto and have promised myself I'll transition with financial security.

I haven't moved on from this position in a decade. My therapist thinks I got into online gambling a couple of years to provoke a crisis of the status quo (i.e mess up your life so much, transition seems an easier option)

You haven't mentioned if you've ever taken anti-anxiety or anti-depressant medication. If you haven't, I highly recommend you see a psychiatrist (perhaps one referred to you by a trusted therapist) and see if they think you should be on one or both. I've experienced a huge benefit from anti-anxiety medication. It probably won't make your gender dysphoria go away, but it might still make you feel better, regardless.