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Fearing Transition

Started by Lori, March 02, 2006, 08:42:19 PM

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Lessa

Hey Lori,

I'm not sure how much help I can be because I'm not in the same situation, since I'm still young and transtioning while in high school. The only suggestion I have for you is to read a book called She's Not There if you haven't already, its about a male to female who went through a very similer situation that you are now going through. I think it may help you and if you can get your wife to read it too, it may help things between the two of you. It talks about how talk about things with your kids to make it easier for them and everything. Thats my only suggestion, otherwise just keep talking to the other people who have been through this too.

Good Luck On Your Journey! Whatever you decided to do.

-Love always, Lessa
  •  

spouse

Hi all!

Lori's spouse here. I have to say I very much appreciate this site and all who post. You all have such insight and wisdom.

So I don't accidentally switch pronouns in mid-dialog and to keep my train of thought, I'm going to stick with what and who I know--my husband, he, him... First, some more history. We have known each other since 1996. We were both married to different people then. I have two girls (now 10 and 7) from my first marriage and they have always lived with me/us. He had no kids with his first wife. He thought he was sterile. His ex remarried and promptly got pregnant so it seemed his diagnosis was correct.

A little backtracking... During our friendship and developing courtship (much of it over ICQ), we divulged our innermost secrets. He told me he was a crossdresser. I said "You're just trying to make me feel better about my secret." No, he was for real. I think I was already in love with him, though I put him off because we were both married. But as our marriages were failing and our connection was growing, it seemed we were meant to be together. After our divorces, we explored his crossdressing. I saw him in full dress, painted his toenails, even did his makeup once. I decided that clothes are harmless. The makeup washes off. He could dress up, and I could still have a man.  I could live with this. He's a good man, too, and is willing to commit to me and to the girls–-a ready-made family. **After reading my initial post, my husband wants me to add that he was taking hormones off and on during the year we were dating. Was I "okay" with it then? Maybe naive is a better word.**

We married on St. Patrick's Day 2001. (No, I did not wear a green wedding dress.) About a year later he said "I'm afraid I'm more than a crossdresser." So we explored that. Indeed, he was (is) a transsexual. He saw a gender therapist and an endocrinologist and got on hormones. He came out to the office manager and to one of the doctors we work for. He was serious. He seemed thrilled with his transforming body--his soft skin, his rounding butt, his growing breasts. But I had problems. I told him I was not okay with the breasts and that at some point I would have to call it quits. I also had to think about my girls. I understood transitioning was something he wanted and needed to do. I was okay with him transitioning. I just couldn't stay married to him. If he couldn't be my husband, I couldn't be his wife. When it was almost time for us to talk to lawyers, he decided he would rather stay with me than transition. He said he was done with it. So we patched things up. We purged the girl stuff.

Many things have happened since. At one point I became suspicious and did some digging. I discovered he had posted to and received a few messages from other transsexuals. I didn't confront him about it but checked on him now and then. It seemed it was a "one-time" thing so I let it go. Though, trust became an issue for me. Around this same time, I went out drinking and playing pool with some friends. I had my first girl kiss. Nothing to it. Kinda cool. I also kissed her husband. Nothing to it. Of course, my husband didn't think so. Looking back, I realize it was not a good idea. So trust became an issue for him too.

We hurdled the obstacles and managed to find each other again. Things were going great. December 25, 2004. I'm pregnant. WTF?!?! So he's NOT sterile! I had just gone off birth control to save the $40 a month. Doh! I was not happy about this pregnancy. I was done having babies. We just got my youngest out of day care. We had also just declared bankruptcy. It just couldn't get worse, could it? My first two pregnancies were essentially a breeze. No morning sickness, I had short labor, breast-feeding was wonderful. This one... this one was different. I won't bore you with the gory details. It just wasn't easy. Anyway, we now have a beautiful baby boy. He has two sisters who adore him and a mommy and daddy who are wrapped around all ten of his wee fingers. But if I had known then what I know now, we would not have had a baby.

Now this. Lori has surfaced. Again. That b*tch is back, trying to take my husband from me. She couldn't stay the ->-bleeped-<- away. Yes, I know she has always been there. I know she is a part of my husband. Part of what I fell in love with. But now she wants to take over. SHE was not part of MY plan. It's just not fair. We've worked so hard. We've survived so much. I love him dearly. He's been so good to me, to the girls and now to our son. My mom loves him. Everyone I know loves him. He's a hugger. He has a wonderful sense of humor. He's intelligent and caring. I want him to be happy or at least be at peace. If transitioning is what he needs to do, I would be devastated but I would want him to do it. Sooner rather than later would be best for all, I think.

He's selfless? I don't know. He has managed to have just about everything he wants, at one point or another. The boat is gone. The motorcycle is gone. But there will be others. He does give his heart though. He gives his time and his energy. That means a lot. Is he selfish to think of himself and do what he wants and needs to do? Sure. But I also think it is selfish to suppress his inner self to keep everything status quo. To keep me. To keep his son and his job.

I understand his fears about transitioning. But he is such a determined person. I believe he can do it. The money isn't there, but he always finds a way. He has sooooo many friends. I don't think it would hurt him to lose a few, honestly. I don't think he'll have a problem finding work. He could be his own boss. He's done it before. His mom is great. I don't think she would bat an eye if he were to transition. Will he blend in? Will he be accepted as a woman? I think so. I mean, there are natal women out there who don't "pass" as women. We come in all shapes and sizes. Yes, he'll lose me but I wouldn't keep his son from him. We would work that out.

I want to be happy too. I want my kids to be happy. Am I blackmailing him by telling him I'll leave if he transitions? I don't think so. I certainly don't mean to. Though if he doesn't transition, he needs to be able to live within my boundaries if we are to stay together. My conditions are: No hormones-period. I'm still on the fence about electrolysis. No surgeries. He can shave and he can dress up. To many that's not much. It may not be enough for him. You might think I'm inflexible. But see, we've been down this road before. I know how far I can go before I have to take an exit ramp. He understands that I need a man. A male. A husband. A functioning penis. He understands that I care what society thinks. I need to be accepted. I need my kids to be accepted. My ex would certainly not understand any of this. He's just not too bright. He would try his best to take the girls from me. I know some wives have stayed with their transitioning husbands and made it work. And I know kids can understand and accept what is happening. I don't want that for me or for my kids. I don't want things to "work." I don't want people to understand and accept. I want things to be "normal."

So, here we are. If he transitions, I'll leave. If he doesn't transition, there is still a possibility we would split up even if he stays within my boundaries. Lately, I dread the future... "Will today be the day he decides he can't take it anymore and must transition?" Will this weigh so heavily on me that I can't stand it anymore? It's possible. I don't want to be in this situation ten years from now.

*Sigh* That's all for now, I guess. It's late and my brain is drained.
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melissa_girl

Thanks for the wonderful reply spouse.  It really sheds some light on the situation.  I am currently in transition and have a wife and kids as well.  When I first started discussing transition, I was in a very similar situation, but I came to the conclusion that transitioning was so important that I was willing to risk everything in my life.  I really hoped it wouldn't come to that, but I was willing to go that route.

So far we are still together, but we have an understanding that we will stay to gether for now, but there is no certain commitment for the future.  I she feels she wants to leave me, we will discuss it then, but I will continue to play the partner role until that time.  I never was very good at "being male" and so my changes were welcomed by both my wife and kids.

For instance, tonight I took my kids out to a movie and dinner while dressed as female.  They call me Melissa all the time (even when presenting as male), so names aren't a problem.  My son commented that this one one of the best times of his life because he was actually doing something with me.  Before all this, I tended to distance myself from everyone, but now I'm working to build relationships with everyone.  They all see me as female, even when I'm dressed as male and now that I'm able to start being my true self, I can start having a real connection with them.

One of the reasons that my wife is still with me is because she looked at the qualities that attracted her to me and is was really my female qualities that she was attracted to.  She realizes that if she seeks a man, she will most likely not find these qualities.  She was reminded of this when talking to a male friend of hers.  She also realizes that being transsexual is not a choice I made.  My brain just ended up in the wrong body. :( 

I'm very uncertain of the future myself and I have no idea who I will be attracted to a couple years down the road.  I may end up a hermit, I may find that I'm attracted to men, or may end up continuing to like women.  I really don't know.  All I do know is that me and my wife have always been very open minded people and we will deal with issues as they come up.

Melissa
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Teri Anne

#23
Thank you Lori and Lori's spouse -
Having been in Lori's shoes, I know that all of this is gut-wrenching to all involved.  With detailed input from "spouse," I agree with Mellissa that we have a far better understanding of the situation.  Because you have both put your thoughts and emotions down so clearly, I wonder if you shouldn't just print up the whole post to take to the couple therapist or the psychologist?

Spouse (Could we have your first name, please?  "Spouse" seems so formal), you brought up, "SHE was not part of MY plan. It's just not fair. We've worked so hard. We've survived so much. I love him dearly."  Unfortunately, like with a lot of medical conditons, fairness - as I'm sure you know - has little to do with it.  My ex and I loved one another (we still do).  We defended one another (we still do).  She knew enough from our living together for 21 years that the last thing I would want to do is to hurt her, or she, me.  And yet, transsexualism is a potentially dangerous medical condition that can hurt all.  No matter which choice (staying as you are, crossdressing, or fully transitioning), all have possible dangers and hurt.  I would rather have had cancer than transsexualism -- far less social stigma and it has the possibilty of remission.  Other TS's consider having the experience of both genders to be an incredible gift for learning that most people never experience.  I'd gladly take the magic pill to make me, as you say, "normal."  But no such pill was available and so I faced a lifetime of angst in a non-conforming body or the POSSIBILITY of becoming as close as I could get to "normal."  Or death.

Spouse, you said, " I know she has always been there. I know she is a part of my husband. Part of what I fell in love with."  Melissa echoed this when she said, "One of the reasons that my wife is still with me is because she looked at the qualities that attracted her to me and is was really my female qualities that she was attracted to.  She realizes that if she seeks a man, she will most likely not find these qualities.  She was reminded of this when talking to a male friend of hers."  My ex, similarly, said to me that I am very kind and caring in the way many women are -- she found the opposite in many of the men she dated after we split up.  Spouse, because your previous husband didn't exhibit these kind and intelligent qualities, and you SEE that Lori has them, I would not rush to throw Lori away.

A wise Los Angeles Times writer, Jack Smith, once wrote that he saw the meaning of life as "seeing what happens next."  Melissa and her spouse are doing just that, taking one day at a time.  Her kids are closer to Melissa than the previous version of Melissa.  What "baby steps" can Lori do that won't freak you out?  The couple therapy and psychologist is something you can and are doing.  If you're indeed slightly open to the possibility of Lori doing electrolysis, that could occupy her time at no great danger to your present lifestyle.  When I was undergoing those painful once or twice a week procedures, I joked, "Forget the psychologists -- The real test of whether someone is truly a transsexual should be if they are able to withstand the pain of years of electrolysis torture."  It's not optional.  All transsexuals HAVE to do it if they have any hope of "passing" on a daily basis.  Perhaps electrolysis will convince Lori that it's just not worth the time, expense and pain. 

As both of you are, at this point, uncertain -- neither of you wants to lose each other (and Lori is uncertain if she might be making a big mistake by transitioning) -- perhaps the best thing is for Lori to not do hormones for now (but that, of course, is just my subjective opinion given the limited knowledge you've shared).  There will be plenty of time later for that.  Lori, if you're concerned with hair loss, you might consider propecia and minoxidil.  None of these are feminizing but can help save what you have.  If costs of all of the above frighten you, consider that other costs (SRS, facial surgery) are super-expensive by comparison.  If you can't handle the costs of electrolysis, propecia and minoxidil, I'm not sure why you would consider full transition.  Of course, some TS's do not do SRS because of costs and, with that, the penis would still be there (Spouse's concern).  Some men (even non-TS's) take anti-androgens to hang onto hair but it can lessen the size and firmness of the penis.  Every action in transition can have side-effects.

Melissa stated, "So far we are still together, but we have an understanding that we will stay to gether for now, but there is no certain commitment for the future.  I she feels she wants to leave me, we will discuss it then, but I will continue to play the partner role until that time...All I do know is that me and my wife have always been very open minded people and we will deal with issues as they come up."

This gets back to what I said about taking one day at a time.  There is no way of foretelling with EXACT CERTAINTY whether you will find this or that to be the breaking point of your marriage.  Spouse, I mentioned in a previous post how I forced the love of my life to leave because every other day was so filled with angst at the beginning of my transition.  I wanted the angst to end -- for both of our sakes.  Since then, we have remained good loving friends, and I've lamented to myself, from time to time, whether I was premature in asking her to leave my house.  Why couldn't I have just let it be and see if it might have worked out?  She's now happily married and I'm happy for her.  Due to my decision, I'm lonely and don't know if I'll ever find as good a love as her.  Don't make my same mistake.  Please consider doing as Melissa and her love are doing, taking every day at a time, EXPERIENCING IT, let it sink in (giving time for how you really react, rather than how you THINK you'll react) and then making your decision.

I'm soon going to be taking a risk by selling my home and leaving L.A.   There are negatives:  There are no film editing jobs where I'm going so I'm leaving the possibility of working at my craft (of 30 years) which I have adored.  I could move and hate the weather in Washington state.  House prices could rise while I'm gone making it difficult, if not impossible, for me to move back.  A huge 9.0 earthquake (bigger than L.A.'s) could happen in the northwest, leaving me in rubble like the people in Mississippi (while insurance companies give pennies on the dollar).  But I know that TS's, before me, have found peace in moving away from others who know our (male) history  -- that history can, of course, be a source of embarrassment and shame, some of which you, as Lori's spouse, may feel.  Spouse, you stated, "He understands that I care what society thinks. I need to be accepted."  We all seek that.  And maybe you'll reach a point where, like me, moving can solve that problem -- No one will see anything but two women, probably sisters, living with two kids.  Nothing strange in that.  And this devil you fear in Lori will have disappeared, replaced by the image of a very appreciative woman who adores you.  Can that be so bad?

Or maybe Lori will, in the transition phase, disappear and your "husband" will return -- that will make you happy, too.  Neither ending seems so terrible that it isn't worth waiting for.  A lifetime of love?  Sounds pretty good to me.

Anyway, moving is the next step in my transition and yet, I'm afraid of the risks.  Believe it or not, I'm not normally a risk taker.  It might seem strange to hear a TS say that, but it's the truth.  I'm generally a rule follower.  Like you, I care what society thinks.  But logic is important also -- it reigns in my fears and pushes me forwards on this new direction.  And so I'll see "what happens next" in my voyage to a hopefully better and more peaceful life.  As I said in an earlier post, it's the best answer for me, so far...

'Till the next day.

Best of luck to you two - you both seem like caring lovely people and I've enjoyed meeting you.

Hugs,
Teri Anne
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Gill

Hi Lori's spouse:

I am so glad that you have posted, there is always 2 sides to the story isn't there?

I can understand how you feel, "the bitch is back".  Yes that is how we feel about the "other person" isn't it?  This person has invaded our lives and has completely taken over our spouse that we love and care about so much and our family as well.  The person that we have protected from his/herself through all of this. (wrongly or rightly).  You worked hard at getting through this and you thought you were both on the same page working toward the same goals.  Then when you find out the goals you thought both of you had are not the same - it's heartbreaking.  We fight like hell to not give in, for me, giving in was like giving up.  It is hard getting over/through that barrier.

We talk about setting our barriers that we can work with and that is great, but if our spouse is unable to work within those barriers then they should not be afraid to tell us.  But you know it is that telling that is so scary for them, the uncertainty.  For them, is the admitting they cannot live with the barriers a feeling of failing, I am not sure but perhaps that has something to do with it.  Nevertheless it comes down to finding out who you both are and what you are both able to live with. 

Are the ts selfish, from an SO's point of view - damn right they are.  Now this is my opinion.  I worked hard at protecting this person from themself, trying to not let them hurt themselves or others.  Yet through all of that, I felt this person didn't want my protection and was willing to sacrifice everything, family, friends, work, ME, our daughter, all in the pursuit of "happiness" of becoming a women.   Is that sounding familiar?  This is so hard to get through, as I have said before dealing with a death is actually much easier.

Separating does not mean you do not support the person, all it means is you just cannot live with the person.  You are not saying this person is a bad person, you know this person and all their good qualities.  But don't say if you transition you will leave or don't allow her to say to keep you I will not transition.  That isn't what it's about.  We all deserve and have a right to be happy, you included.  The things you have to look at are, as things stand right now, are you happy?  How do you see this in 10 years, knowing this will not go away.  You take it from there.  We all have to do what is right for ourselves and our familys, don't let the "noise" distract you for doing what you feel is the right thing for you and your family.

I will leave you with these thoughts.  I am so glad you are so honest and were willing to share your most internal thoughts with us. :icon_bunch:  Putting it all into words for others to read is so difficult, once we start we just can't stop.  Keep talking, I for one will look forward to hearing more from you.

Take card



Gill
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titaniumowl

Hello Lori, and spouse:

I am inviting you to read my introduction in that set of messages titled "An Introduction" on February 11th. Lori, I am a transsexual; confirmed by a pioneer therapist in the field. I remain internally identified as Karen, a girl, a woman.

Yet, as you read my introduction, you will see that after living as a woman for several years, I am again "dad'. Your child should not, in my opinion and in the opinion of my eldest daughter whose degree is in Psychology, be asked to accommodate the withdrawal of his father as a personal and social bulwark of his life. Think about your unborn grandchildren.

"Father" cannot be replaced by a second "mother" or an "aunt". Women, biological women, with whom we want to make common cause, almost always choose their children's welfare over their own. Even though I cannot dress as a woman, do makeup which I find to be fun nor sport a nice "rack", I am being the most womanly I know how to be by fulfilling the role I took upon myself when I participated in my children's conception.

Perhaps my point-of-view resonates with you. I hope so. If not, I hope you find a way to choose to be happy.

Hugs,

Karen
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Melissa

Hi Gracie.  Yes we are very similar.  I thought it was interesting that you had low libido, as did I before starting hormones.  I considered it a blessing and hoped it meant that the testosterone in my body was at lower levels and not doing as much damage.  Actually, I've not noticed much change at all since starting HRT, as I wasn't getting erections beforehand.  Lately, I've noticed my chest wall hurting, like a sore muscle, which I assume is the muscle shrinking.

I am glad you are able to stay with your wife.  Mine has been super as well.  She buys me clothes all the time and buys makeup.  She has been very helpful.  Gracie, if your wife says she will stay with you, take it as a blessing and like the saying goes "don't look a gift-horse in the mouth."  In other words, don't try to examine why, just be glad she is staying.

I have a friend (male) who I've had since high school who is being very accepting and I am having the same problem as you where it just seems too good to be true.  So I do understand where you are coming from.  I just have to trust that he is as supportive as he says.

And by the way, I think you wrote a really interesting post and definitely contributed to this thread.

Melissa
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Leigh

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 07:30:22 PM


I've been on t-blockers for 20 something months.  I've had facial hair removal, I've been seeing a gender psychologist since the summer of 05, and have an appointment with an endo in April because I'll be getting my letter for HRT next week.


HUH?

You have been on an androgen suppressant for 20 something months but don't have a letter for HRT yet?  There are no over the counter drugs that work so the option seem to be self medicating.  If you are and have read the site rules you do know that we discourage self medication in anyway!

8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:


A. Advocating for or against a specific medication or combinations of medications for personal gain is strictly prohibited.
B. Discussing the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription, and self medication without a doctors care is prohibited.
C. Discussing dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.

We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.
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Teri Anne

Hi Gracie,
You wrote, "Teri Anne.  Thank you!  I'm going to stop pushing my wife away from me now and let her walk if she wants to."

Thank YOU!  You made my day.  I'm glad I could help.  It's strange.  When I got my ex to move out (after 21 years together), silly me -- I thought I was doing HER a favor.  She would no longer be around someone who might become an outcast, lose a job, lose friends, become a topic for humor around the old water cooler.  None of those dire things happened (though I did lose some work).  In my mind, I was PROTECTING her by asking her to leave.  If I'd let her stay, my life would be a lot happier now.  But she's happily married and she's not coming back.  Every once in awhile, I'll see architecture or dogs that I know she'd like, but she's 3000 miles away.  We talk daily on the phone but it's not the same.  One of the best things about marriage is seeing and sharing something with the one you love.

And seeing it without them seems empty by contrast.  I'm happy for you -- and your wife.

Teri Anne
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Lori

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 07:30:22 PM
Hi,

It's taken me two days to read this thread because I wanted to read every last thing that came from Lori.  Never did I imagine that others would give input so awesome I'm still awestruck.

To me this is one of the best threads I've read in like sheeesh 7 years?



:) *blush*

Thank you.
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stephb

Teri Anne,

I'm new to this forum and just started reading this thread. I am in a similar situation to what is being discussed. I appreciate so much your thoughtful insights into this problem. You make much sense. Even though I am butting end at the end here, this has also helped me.

Thanks,

Steph
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Teri Anne

Thank you Gracie and Steph for the kind words.  I sometimes think about the saying, "It could be that the only purpose of my being is to serve as a warning to others."  Through me (and many others here at Susan's) beginning TS's can hear how we navigated the dangerous waters of transition.  At times, it's like the ancient Greek tale of a ship caught between the rocky shores of Skilla and Carribdis - the story is taught in English classes as a metaphor for a person caught between two dangerous choices.  Whether we TS's stay in our birth skins or choose to metamorphize can seem like a choice between two dangers.  When I transitioned, I often thought of the butterfly emerging from its cocoon...

And flying.

Teri Anne
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Davina

Hi everyone, I,m new here, many of Lori's questions are pretty relative to my situation, except I'm 35, single, no kids, never been married. In escence it should be easier for me to transition, but not really. However i believe that the positives will out weigh the negatives. I' so frustrated with my present status and desperate to transition. I have'nt told any family or friends that I'm Ts and would like to transition.
Its almost as if i need someone who has been through this to give me a push along and to tell me to stop being a coward and to get on with it. I've always known that i wanted to be a woman, have always thought about what it would be like to transition, but 6 months ago i really started to take it seriously. I need and want this, but I'm scared.

Davina
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HelenW

Davina,

Welcome to Susan's.

Many of us are or were in the same spot you are.  Transition is a very scary thing, I agree.  It would be really nice if you could write a post in the INTRODUCTIONS forum so we can get to know you better.

helen
FKA: Emelye

Pronouns: she/her

My rarely updated blog: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com

Southwestern New York trans support: http://www.southerntiertrans.org/
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stephanie_craxford

Quote from: Davina on April 03, 2006, 04:07:06 PM
Hi everyone, I,m new...

...I've always known that i wanted to be a woman...

Davina

Hello Davina.

Why not head over to the Introductions in the Announcements forum and post an intro telling us a little about yourself. :)

Just another point... Wanting to be a woman and being a woman are two completely different things.  If you are a woman then you will transition.

Steph
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ChrissyRyan

Have you had any fears relating to transition?  What have yours been?

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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