Kate, forgive me for stealing your topic in your Easter post but the more I've
thought about this the more I want to know.

My question is this, to fully transition do we need to cut ties to the past? Do you
ever get past being "him" or "he"? It seems that many here have moved on or cut their
ties, do I have that right? Or is it possible to become "her" and be forgotten as "him"?

Since it takes as long to get out as it did to get in, in some cases not.  You just have to weigh if their being in your life is worth a missed pronoun here and there.

Quote from: tekla on March 25, 2008, 12:48:48 PM
Since it takes as long to get out as it did to get in, in some cases not.  You just have to weigh if their being in your life is worth a missed pronoun here and there.

Yep, that's just it. Everyone's situation is different. Sometimes people accept you and all, but just slip with a "him" out of habit. And sometimes there are people who do it because they DON'T accept you.

Are you close to your relatives, coworkers and friends? See, truth be told, no one would particularly miss me if I vanished. I have NO contact with my own family beyond my parents - and even there, Dad avoids me and Mom seems surprised every time we talk that I'm "still doing this." She hasn't met me as Kate. I haven't seen them for a year and a half now.

I have a best friend, but he's kinda fallen away since I transitioned. He accepts me just fine, but I guess Be Careful What You Wish For, as now that we don't do male sorta things (cars, Xbox, computers), he seems less and less interested. I'm not the same person he became friends with. When we hang out together now, it looks like we're on a date... which is seriously weird, lol.

My wife... well, she hasn't touched me in two years. I can deal without the sexual intimacy, but there isn't even any affection anymore. She loves me, but she doesn't LIKE me. We're strictly two women living together, cooperating to help one another out, but we're not "together" in any real sense of the word aside from that love we have for one another. If I left, I'm sure it'd hurt... but she could also finally have the things she constantly tells me I stole from her: a heterosexual sex life, a husband, and perhaps a child. Not to mention not living in "TS Central" anymore.

My coworkers would miss me the most I think. I've been at my job for 17 years, so I have quite a history with them. But they'd find a young, eager kid just out of college whom I'm sure would love the opportunity.

I'd really miss my wife's family though. They pretty much adopted me, lol, and I just love them SO much. And yet... they're not "mine."

Geez, until I typed all that out, I didn't realize that I AM losing most of those things I sought to hold onto. And I'm the one always going on about how I lost nothing, lol. I mean, no one HATES me, but still... it looks like that life is leaving me, whether I want it to or not. It may not just be a matter of whether WE need to leave to live an authentic life... that life may slowly leave us anyway.

And maybe that's how it should be. It's validating in a sad kinda way. My wife is a heterosexual woman... so she *shouldn't* want to be with me. My friend is a heterosexual male... so he *shouldn't* want to be friends with me in a "guy" way anymore. My family raised a son... so they *shouldn't* instantly love this woman who murdered him. I got nothing less than exactly what I asked for: to be seen as the female, the woman, I am in every way, consequences be damned.

~Kate~

Well, aside from being very sad, I guess Bob Dylan once said, "If you got nothing, you go nothing to lose" which is a kind of freedom.

Looking at it a different way, you are already gone, at least the person they knew before. The son, the husband, the
co-worker are all gone replaced by a (hopefully) better Kate. But they don't know Kate. Kate is foreign to them.

I've struggled with this for the past few days and I've tried to put myself in their place. How would I react? I keep
coming back to "I would not take it very well" and I would have a hard time accepting it.

As Amanda I think I'll always be asking "what are they thinking about me?", "what are they saying about me?". As hard
as it would be to move to a different city and break ties with family, I'm starting to wonder if that would be the least
painful way to be Amanda. The end result sounds like heaven to me, a place where all I would be known as is
Amanda not him. It's just the process of getting there that sucks.

Quote from: Kate on March 25, 2008, 01:40:01 PM
I got nothing less than exactly what I asked for: to be seen as the female, the woman, I am in every way, consequences be damned.

Is that truly all you asked for, Kate? Somehow I think we all ask for more than that. And why shouldn't one have more?

Does someone have to lose family and friends? I don't think anyone HAS to. We often lose great swatches of both though. Perhaps cis-sexual people find it difficult to discover that they also have gender identities. IOW they are congruent as they are. They needn't change body to match brain/soul. To have to realize that they have one, may well be as extraordinarily difficult for them as finding our own way to congruity has been for us.

Yet, Julia Serano points out that thirty years ago people seldom if ever referred to themselves as heterosexual. They were simply people when they related sexually to a gender configured differently than their own. Now many, probably most, heteros refer to themselves as that. They 'discovered' their sexuality. They now find that a 'natural' thing to do. 

I suspect that Serano is also right in thinking that as people transition and show themselves in Gynandrous/Androgynous ways that cis-sexuals will begin to discover their own gender identities.

To answer the original question is difficult. Certainly Tekla made an excellent start. But, beyond that, I think you also have to decide what is important in your life. Am I not only willing to do the work of transition, but am I also willing to do the work or maintaining relationships with those I already love and build others with those I have yet to meet?

Questions like this one are never, I think, cut and dried/yes or no.

Nichole   

I won't have to miss my friends, they accept me, and I think they will continue to do so after all the changes.
I don't know what my parents are going to do.  Yeah, they thought they had a son, but it's not like I'm dying and will be a completely different person, just more comfortable with myself.  So I don't see them as having a problem either.
As for the co-workers, it's just a temporary job for my college co-op so after that I get a fresh start.

Quote from: Kate on March 25, 2008, 01:40:01 PM



I have a best friend, but he's kinda fallen away since I transitioned. He accepts me just fine, but I guess Be Careful What You Wish For, as now that we don't do male sorta things (cars, Xbox, computers), he seems less and less interested. I'm not the same person he became friends with. When we hang out together now, it looks like we're on a date... which is seriously weird, lol.


~Kate~

LOL- I can relate too with this. While I'm not accepted as "one of the girls" in society since I haven't even come out. I share absouletly nothing in common guys. Even though I may look like one of the guys I'm not one of them. Like there's nothing really to talk about with guys- a lot of guys do however see me as a guy but don't relate or associate with- They'll say "wats up" etc etc but that's all it really goes- It NEVER goes to the personal aspect of a conversation that guys have with each other.- Like some guys meet me for the first time. And you know how people first say hi to each other and joke around to get to be friend and know each other. it never goes past that..lol...

I think the BIG part of people seeing me as a guy still is my appearance. It's just stereotyping that people are inclined to do by human nature. It's just how MOST people's brains work. For example- many people have a tendency to think I'm some "tough, rude, obnixous, cocky" guy just based on appearance. What's funny is that I'm a very quiet kind of person- and people start taking me as rude when I don't even intend to be.- people have a VERY bad habit of judging others based on clothes, hair and physical appearance. Don't want to get too long here but I'm reading a book called Law of Success which is a physcology type book that teaches you how to build a winning personality to achieve success. One of the biggest problems is judging others on first appearances. It said that you have to observe people closely in HOW they react when they are angry, in love, jealous, fearful, when writing, when eating, when money is involved, when in loss.

But you see, Now I realize that LOOKING like a woman or man WILL not make you fit in that gender. Rather your personality, how you are in the INSIDE, how well you relate to that gender and if your BRAIN is wired to behave like that gender is the important piece! For example. You could look like a man when you really feel like a woman. Sure others would treat you like a man based on your appearance. BUt once they really get to know you deep inside- you won't recieve the same treatment. Maybe they won't treat you as a woman but they sure won't treat you like man much.

Hormones, surgery etc can only do so much- it's your BRAIN and THOUGHTS that make you, YOU!- Sure, HRT makes brain changes happen BUT it was your brain unaltered that decided to embark on Hormones.

As for Male friends, Kate, I know guys casually here and their type of thing but I don't have anything to do with them.
As for girls- I can relate to them better but I'm not friends with them either.

As for Relatives and Family. Well my cousins, uncles and aunts aren't too close nor too distant. Were sort of like close friends but also family. You can say we are close since I maybe be moving in with them but I don't do "male things" with guys in my family.

I don't have interests in video games, sports much etc- but that is just a stereotype. Girls can like video games and still relate better with girls.

Okay this is my last comment and then I'll shutup lol, I think transgenders are generally (not specifically) better at understanding human behavior and how socialization works. While others don't put much though into it- they just dive in.- THAT'S A BENEFIT OF BEING TS!

Amanda,

I encourage you to attempt to maintain your family relationships.  I was never close to my cousins so I haven't seen any of them since my transition.  I have been able to keep a good relationship with my parents and siblings.  Mom and Dad frequently get the pronouns wrong and refuse to use the correct pronouns when I'm not around.  It's been 22 years.  But when they come visit or when I fly out to their place, they do try.

I had a pretty good relationship with my ex until I published my book.  Once she found out that I actually discussed details of the night of our marriage, she cut me out of her life. My daughter, the only one in my family to actually read my book, was the one who told her mother of all the "terrible things" I wrote about.  She has cut me off as well. My son still contacts me from time to time.  He does try.  He also invites me into his home when I visit Utah.  His wife clearly does not like me.  She told me off recently and we haven't spoken since. Yet, I'm sure that she would be polite to me if I showed up on their doorstep.

I was able to tell my grandmother that I loved her very much shortly before she died.  She responded with "You were my first grandchild and regardless of the problems you have had, I have always had a special place in my heart for you.  I love you too."

So hon... it is not a panacea.  But I think that I've been patient and worked hard to keep them in my life.  I also have lived in a separate state which has solved all kinds of problems.  It has been worth while in the long run.  I love to call Mom and Dad every week.  They are planning on coming out next week for an extended visit.  I'm just going to pretend that Dad has Alzheimer's or something if he screws the pronouns up in a restaurant. It has happened before and it seems to work.

Cindi

The separate state thingy sounds good

Thanks for the comments Cindi, I think the word you used "patient" may be the best thing to keep in mind.

Maybe I'm worrying about all this for nothing and I need to be patient and see how things work out.

Amanda

Do you have to cut ties to your family/friends/job to fully transition?

No. I've always been feminine in my presentation and image for many years so I didn't have any drastic changes in my life to the way it was before.....so things are as they have always been....

I don't see one male friend very often but if I went to his house I'd probably get a cup of tea and a chat...

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on March 25, 2008, 01:48:55 PM

Quote from: Kate on March 25, 2008, 01:40:01 PM
See, truth be told, no one would particularly miss me if I vanished.

 

I'd have to second Ashley's opinion on that one.

Posted on: 26 March 2008, 07:15:31

---

But when it boils down to it:

"Only when you have lost everything are you free to do anything"

-Chuck Palaniuk, Fight Club

Kate: The way you've described your relationships, I hear what you are saying. I was so nervous about sending out my letter to my relatives, until I thought about it and realised I haven't seen most of them in 4 or 5 years. It literally becomes a question of Weddings and Funerals. And as you say, maybe it's not exactly fair to expect people we have known for so long to just all of a sudden switch their minds around and accept us in our correct gender.

It's a tough call either way though. Those connections are still there, even if distant, and the thought of letting them go to start from scratch somewhere else... that's scary. But then, to my mind people who go through transition, against all the odds. If anybody has the strength to do this, it's us. Ultimately it really does become a value call - what do you value more

Quote from: lady amarant on March 26, 2008, 08:17:50 AM
The way you've described your relationships, I hear what you are saying. I was so nervous about sending out my letter to my relatives, until I thought about it and realised I haven't seen most of them in 4 or 5 years.

Same here. Aside from my parents, NONE of my blood relatives know. I even have an older brother - but he hasn't spoken to me in like 15 years, so... oh well. The only things I'm clinging to are my job (which just feels "wrong" for me anymore, but it's safe) and my "marriage" (such as it is). But if my wife and I split, and I find a different source of income as Kate... well actually, then I WILL have started over. I don't necessarily have to move to make it happen.

And to tell you the truth, I suspect it's inevitable now.

QuoteIt's a tough call either way though. Those connections are still there, even if distant, and the thought of letting them go to start from scratch somewhere else... that's scary. But then, to my mind people who go through transition, against all the odds. If anybody has the strength to do this, it's us. Ultimately it really does become a value call - what do you value more

Exactly. I mean wow, imagine a life where *everyone* you encounter only knows and sees Simone, a woman. Not "So-and-so who goes by the name Simone now." Just... Simone. EVEN IF someone new knows of your transition, they'll just consider it an interesting tidbit about your past - it won't ruin their perception of you as Simone and only that.

No worries about someone "slipping" and outing you when out to dinner. No hoping in vain for people to forget the ghost of HIM and see YOU. A chance to start over, properly, and build a history as Simone... without the weight of HIM dragging against that every second of the day.

~Kate~

Quote
Exactly. I mean wow, imagine a life where *everyone* you encounter only knows and sees Simone, a woman. Not "So-and-so who goes by the name Simone now." Just... Simone. EVEN IF someone new knows of your transition, they'll just consider it an interesting tidbit about your past - it won't ruin their perception of you as Simone and only that.

No worries about someone "slipping" and outing you when out to dinner. No hoping in vain for people to forget the ghost of HIM and see YOU. A chance to start over, properly, and build a history as Simone... without the weight of HIM dragging against that every second of the day.

Sounds like heaven to me. Yes there would be some pain cutting the ties but there are so many advantages that I see. Maybe I'm
being selfish, but I wonder sometimes who would really miss me. For me I think a lot of it boils down to "what do others think of me"
and I  have a hard time dealing with other peoples expectations of what and who I am and I always have.

I can see that being so much worse as I transition. It also depends a lot on how many ties you have to cut. In your case Kate
if it's only the job that's a problem then I would not base a life decision on a job, no matter how good it is or how long you
have been there. You will be able to find another job but you only get one life. Of course I'm putting my life in place of yours, I
don't know your situation, only mine, but for me it sounds great. I hope it works for you if that is what you decide since
I'm kinda following in your footsteps at this point. LOL, your the beta test

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 26, 2008, 11:12:22 AM
...but I wonder sometimes who would really miss me.

hehe...

Not all that many, actually. My mom and dad ... and possibly, maybe my brother, if he doesn't fall in with the Rhema Church crowd again.

My mom and dad I'd keep in my life, but the rest ... I suppose a lot depends on the responses to my letter. It's being delayed at the moment so my mom and dad can speak to my gran this weekend, but on Sunday the bombshell drops. We'll see how it goes.

in my situation, i had no issues with my friends and as for family a lot of them cut me out of their lives. Job wise, I was working retail and I wasn't working when I went on HRT and started FT. I then got a job a couple of weeks after going FT and I didn't have too many issues from my employer. Since then I've had a couple of other jobs.

--natalie

"Do you have to cut ties to your family/friends/job to fully transition?"
Nope. 

-Sara

It depends on the peeps around you and how you want your life to be. Some peeps will be supportive and will transition with you.. Others wont be as good about it and will believe that you'll always be the sex your were born and not what you really are.  I didn't cut my liaisons with my family because I'm the only child.  But I'm stealth to the rest of the world.

Quote from: Sarah on March 26, 2008, 09:38:35 PM
"Do you have to cut ties to your family/friends/job to fully transition?"
Nope. 

-Sara

It takes longer and you have to decide whether it's worth the effort. For me it was. There are still screwups, but they're much fewer and far between than before and I've known these people all my life.

Dennis

If a person has the courage to go through this, then IMHO, they have the right to do as they please with their own lives.  Having said that, I did cut ties with my previous life (moved, changed jobs, left my so called "friends" behind, plunged into the unknown as Kate says) except my family.  Like I said on a different thread, after a while, the constant reminder of *that other person* becomes extremely offensive, and personally I wasn't willing to put up with that kind of disrespect.

If my family hadn't gotten their act together in regards to what I wanted to be called, I would have cut them out my life as well honestly.

I mean, giving people enough time to adjust is an excellent idea but when "that time" becomes never-ending even after you don't look male anymore/have transitioned for years, then there is a problem and drastic measures must be taken.

tink