This is why I enjoy living several states away from my family members.

Sorry to hear about having to deal with this.

His hatred of you has cost him so much, yet he still clings to it so strongly. It's bizarre!

Julia, I can't believe the restraint you showed. That is unreal the gall of him asking for pictures. Makes my stomach turn. I'm so sorry that you have to endure this kind of abuse from a family member.
*Hugs*

Julia, you have a beautiful relationship with your Dad and Brother. Don't let anyone take that away from you. Your father has seen what is best for you, and has no problem seeing that you become the best you possibly can. These lamebrained knuckle draggers like your uncle just don't have what it takes to understand that it is not something you woke up one day to discover. Hey how would it be to be a woman? I can imagine the pain you have gone through and you are lucky to have such a caring Father and Brother. Kick your uncle to the curb and get on with your new life. Sounds like cousin Eddie from Vacation. You don't need toxic people around you. Glad to hear you are recovering well.

Julia, I've read a few posts now regarding your uncle, and one thing is becoming very clear to me. He's trying to push your buttons. He's trying to get to you in the best way he knows how to do it. By constantly drawing attention to something that, for you, is normal. Being yourself.

He's behaving like an internet troll. Seriously. I'm sure to him it's all pretty funny. He's trying to get a rise out of you, sweetie. That's all. You mentioned that he might not ever see it as normal, you being who you are. But from what I've read of him from your posts, he knows which gears to grind to get you worked up. What to say to get to you.

Think about it. What's the best way to keep something in people's attention? Keep talking about it. Keep pressing the issue and keep making a big deal out of it. When you do that, it never goes away. By the sounds of it your uncle doesn't want it to go away because he has a problem with it. And the best way he's figured out how to make it not go away is to keep drawing attention to it. And to do that he winds you up at every opportunity because he knows you'll take the bait. I'd honestly be surprised if he actually believes the words coming out of his mouth. He just knows they get to you.

While ever he does this... Julia, it makes it into a thing for him. A thing it shouldn't be. And it makes it into a thing for you. It keeps it there right in the middle. Where both he and you are thinking about it. It shouldn't be like that. You should be allowed to just live your life like every other person.

There's an expression I heard once and I rather like: "Don't fight fire with fire. Use water instead. It's much more effective." The best way to stop someone getting to you is to show them they can't get to you. The same goes for anyone in life who tries to get to you over something, and tries to exploit something in your life to make an issue over it, not just your uncle.

You are who you are, Julia. And you just want to be who you are. So be who you are, okay? If he says anything designed to very obviously start an argument then just shut him down. Say nothing if needs be. Ignore him. Smile sweetly at him with a "My life is how I want it to be... how's yours?" smile and then walk away.

People have nowhere to go when you do that. If he sees that nothing he can say can bother you, then maybe he'll stop saying it. Because the result he wants won't appear. Maybe once he sees that you don't feel the need to justify yourself, or who you are, and are content to just live your own life... he'll leave it alone. Because there's really nothing left to say. When one person acts like that, all they do is make themselves look like a fool. You don't need to say anything... people see.

*big hug*

Dear Julia
Know that I only wish the very best for you and wish I had a crystal ball to see the best possible outcome for you. but unfortunately I do not but know this that if your uncle really crosses Over The Line which is already borderline I admit he will pay for his actions in this life and will be judged for them,  by his creator in the next
I know absolutely nothing or have any experience of discrimination other than merely in a dream. And I'm truly horrified of all that you've been subject to.
I know you try to stay away from him as much as you can but being family this can be difficult.
Is it possible to defuse this situation by not letting him feed off of your emotion, and being completely unaffected by any words that come out of his mouth. But I would bet no because you've probably already tried everything possible you could.

we are better than them Julia please don't lower yourself to his standards going toe-to-toe with them is probably just what he wants.
I hope you can take the high road which is often more difficult but more honorable and will help all of our cause further by not lowering yourself to his level.

and to Christine no one's right or wrong it's merely our opinions

and Julia know that I'm in your corner and wish only the very best for you.  we are better than them

love  Tatiana

Quote from: Sephirah on July 23, 2018, 01:36:23 PM
Julia, I've read a few posts now regarding your uncle, and one thing is becoming very clear to me. He's trying to push your buttons. He's trying to get to you in the best way he knows how to do it. By constantly drawing attention to something that, for you, is normal. Being yourself.

He's behaving like an internet troll. Seriously. I'm sure to him it's all pretty funny. He's trying to get a rise out of you, sweetie. That's all. You mentioned that he might not ever see it as normal, you being who you are. But from what I've read of him from your posts, he knows which gears to grind to get you worked up. What to say to get to you.

Think about it. What's the best way to keep something in people's attention? Keep talking about it. Keep pressing the issue and keep making a big deal out of it. When you do that, it never goes away. By the sounds of it your uncle doesn't want it to go away because he has a problem with it. And the best way he's figured out how to make it not go away is to keep drawing attention to it. And to do that he winds you up at every opportunity because he knows you'll take the bait. I'd honestly be surprised if he actually believes the words coming out of his mouth. He just knows they get to you.

While ever he does this... Julia, it makes it into a thing for him. A thing it shouldn't be. And it makes it into a thing for you. It keeps it there right in the middle. Where both he and you are thinking about it. It shouldn't be like that. You should be allowed to just live your life like every other person.

There's an expression I heard once and I rather like: "Don't fight fire with fire. Use water instead. It's much more effective." The best way to stop someone getting to you is to show them they can't get to you. The same goes for anyone in life who tries to get to you over something, and tries to exploit something in your life to make an issue over it, not just your uncle.

You are who you are, Julia. And you just want to be who you are. So be who you are, okay? If he says anything designed to very obviously start an argument then just shut him down. Say nothing if needs be. Ignore him. Smile sweetly at him with a "My life is how I want it to be... how's yours?" smile and then walk away.

People have nowhere to go when you do that. If he sees that nothing he can say can bother you, then maybe he'll stop saying it. Because the result he wants won't appear. Maybe once he sees that you don't feel the need to justify yourself, or who you are, and are content to just live your own life... he'll leave it alone. Because there's really nothing left to say. When one person acts like that, all they do is make themselves look like a fool. You don't need to say anything... people see.

*big hug*

I agree with this. In fact, if he does talk to you, perhaps no response is the best response. Give him no words. Give him no facial expressions. Give him nothing at all. Keep your chill and walk away. Also couldn't hurt to pull out your phone and hit record every time he tries to talk to you. Evidence would be useful if you ever need to build a case for a restraining order.

I haven't seen signs of a lynch mob yet, although Christine is right to regret anticipating imprisonment and violence against Julia's uncle.

For myself, I  regret that a number of us used the p word to insult her uncle, not because I think that it was unfair or inaccurate but because it was unnecessary.  His own words and actions are far more damning than our necessarily restrained language.

Tatiana was sweet, in her first response, to hope for love and reconciliation, especially if she was aware that the latest incident is just the most recent and most sinister in a long campaign of harassment that included Julia's uncle confronting her in her workplace.  I admit that until the latest incident, I myself hoped that with GRS being a fait accompli, the reason for the harassment would end and Julia's uncle would become reconciled to her being a woman.  Although it was Tatiana's first reply that gained praise, I think that her more restrained second reply is wiser.

Sephirah's advice may also be wise, especially if Julia's uncle is just a run-of-the-mill bully who happened to pick on his niece and will just pick on someone else if he fails with her.  However, even if he is a run-of-the-mill bully, and I am not sure that he is, ignoring him will not necessarily end his harassment.  Many bullies really do not like being ignored and their behaviour can escalate.

Cindy was right about Julia showing maturity and strength.  This is shown, e.g., by the fact that she considered not telling her father or brother about the incident, in the hope of shielding them from her problems.  I think that she was right to tell them, though, as escalating harassment is a danger signal.  Cindy was also right to caution us to use restrained language, although as I said, I haven't seen signs of a lynch mob yet.

However, only Julia is in a position to say whether she is safe.

Although we cannot presume that her uncle intends Julia any physical harm, we also cannot declare that he does not pose a threat.  Intentionally or not, he has already put her in danger.  Reasonable people know that if they upset somone who is about to drive a motor vehicle, they are putting the drivers and others on the road in peril of their lives.

Julia's father has shown exemplary restraint and I hope that he continues to do so but his brother has ignored past warnings, so he may feel safe enough to continue his harassment.  Also, Julia's uncle may be able to talk his way out of trouble with her grandparents.  After all, he is their son and what parents want to believe the worst of their child? 

Julia, if your uncle follows you outside again, consider walking back into your grandparents' house and asking one of them to escort you out.  If he restrains or impedes you, shout for help.  A loud whistle might be useful, especially if your grandparents recognise it as a signal.

Julia

I have read about your uncle's previous behavior in many posts over the last year and am most appalled at the latest incident. I know how it is to have family disapprove but I cannot imagine how painful it must be to be regularly taunted and embarrassed and insulted.

As the action of having GCS has not suggested/implied to him to accept you as a woman, it may be that he never will accept you. That is very sad but the more immediate problem is to prevent further harassment.

I am inclined to agree the best course of action is to not participate in conversation with him over any gender or sexual matter or anything personal at all. It may be that after a few months of that, he may cease the taunting when he sees it does not outwardly bother you. It may take years for your uncle to be the normal friendly uncle and he may ultimately may never change his true opinion, but if you and your dad by ignoring his intolerable insults can in the long term make him somewhat civil, then you will have maintained some sort of relationship with your uncle even if strained.

I suggest "ignore" and then "wait and see" instead of complete divorce from your uncle but it is your decision of course

I wish you success and happiness.

Hugs

Pamela

OMG Julia I'm am so sorry you have had to deal with this! I just read this and I was so angry for you. Your uncle is very depraved. He will not change. He may hide his depavity again but it is ingrained in his thought processes. I will not speculate as to how he got to be that way.

I don't know if it helps to break down his interactions with you or not. For me, figuring out why the other person acts like they do helps me compartmentalize their issues and helps me know it's not my problem.
It sounds like your uncle still sees you as male or a sub human male. He is extremely overly open with his sexual based comments because he does not feel like he is crossing any lines as he would if he saw you as a girl. He has some extreme issues with his view of women. He visualizes women as sex objects good for his pleasure only. He may well have other sex related psychological issues that only he and a therapist could sort through. He assumes all other men think as he does. Put this whole twisted view together and you get his disgusting comments and requests toward you.

I am so sorry you had had to deal with that. So much worse when it's a relative. I'm still furious. It's such terrible sexual harassment.

Sometimes trying to be civilized can lead to rectal cranial inversion when it comes to dealing with reality. I don't see a lynch mob here and calling something what it is helps avoid codependency and denial. There's nothing noble or superior in avoiding truth. That said, actions matter more and no one has proposed physical harm. If he crosses the line legally, adjudication by the legal system would be proper and if it leads to incarceration, he's the one that did it to himself. It's not so much about retribution, but keeping a predator off the streets. Considering his age and behaviors, this isn't his first foray into that behavior. Just steer clear, get an order of protection if he persists and work it from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: Tatiana 79 on July 22, 2018, 01:42:13 PM
Hello Julie
I know that we're at opposite ends of the spectrum but yet were cut from the same cloth.
I honestly did my best to stay out of this sensing all the passion expressed.
I'm really kind of horrified by everything I read twice and stepped outside to take a little walk trying to stay out of it but I'm so used to being wrong, how much worse can it get but anyways
the only inspiration I receive through nature mainly
Despite of his previous actions please do not give up on your uncle, people do definitely change over time. As I most sincerely wish this would happen for you.
And even if this is within the slightest realm of possibility , do not totally give up on him as I have no uncles left I wish I had even a slight chance with one that felt as yours did.

I know that my sentiment expressed was unlike any other reply I read, so please beat up on me as much as you want.

  and to Julia I only wish the very best for you dear
I have learned from only the couple months I've been here that people do change and sometimes emotions are put to rest over a period of time and this is what I ultimately wish for you dear sometimes blood is thicker than water.
Are we not All God's Children and all equal to draw breath none the less, as many feel we should not even have this right to
breathe.


all the very best to your future love Tatiana

I'm not offended at all by what you said. You are obviously a very kind person. As much as my uncle has said I still left the door open in case later on he decided to behave as a human being. But after this last incident that door is now closed. The way he acted was not only disgusting but it was totally creepy. No matter what my uncle says in the future or if he appologizes I won't ever be able to be around him without being creeped out. As it is right now just thinking about him makes me want to shower.  I can't help it. And also, at this point in time I'm trying to recover from the trauma of being trans and my uncle will always remind me of the negative things I went through. I didn't go through nearly as much as many people here but much of what I did go through was traumatic for me. Now that I have had SRS I just want to try to put all that behind me. I won't be able to do that with my uncle or even my mom in my life. I don't want them in my life right now. Maybe down the road I might be able to have some kind of relationship with my mom but that door is permanently closed for my uncle.

Quote from: Sno on July 23, 2018, 05:52:33 AM
(Hugs) sweetie, he sounds revolting.

From the leaves of an unknown book - (also known as random sayings that have been picked up in the school of life), when someone tells you what they are, listen carefully.

Do you have an Aunt? Does your dad have a female close cousin? Quite simply that's one big red flag, right there that in his mind, he thinks that is normal. You ONLY think that sort of behaviour is normal when you were involved in such activities yourself. He is projecting.

Whether that is fantasy, or reality, is by the by - you need to keep yourselves safe, and posting here

(Hugs)

Rowan

No I don't have an aunt on my dad's side. It's just he and my dad. My uncle is 36 and my dad is about to turn 40. They do have female cousins but both still live in Germany.  I know they did visit a few times when my dad and uncle were growing up so I guess something could have happened during those visits. I have never understood my uncle's insinuations of incest between my brother and I. Brother/ Brother incest is extremely rare from what I have come to understand. Since his he started saying things years before I transitioned that's what he was implying. Tyler and I have always been close and from what I've seen of other siblings I suppose he and I are closer than most siblings but it's never been in any kind of weird way at all.

Tyler has always been affectionate with me but never in any kind of weird way. That always got my uncle extremely irritated. He once told my dad he needed to do something because he had seen Tyler kiss me. He did, but Tyler kissed me on top of my head which he and my dad have both always done. He had decided early on that I was gay and he used to tell Tyler to be careful he didn't end up gay too from spending to much time with me. Once when I was about 12 I had shaken the crap out of a can of soda and when Tyler opened it it exploded and sprayed him. I ran of course but he caught me and he had me on the floor tickling the crap out of me. My uncle yelled at him to stop that. He told Tyler he should twist my arm behind my back or get me in a headlock. Tyler told him he didn't want to actually hurt me and my uncle told him he was becoming just as big a "->-bleeped-<-" as I was. Imagine being 14 years old and having your uncle say that to you. Poor Tyler.

No one else ever thought there was anything "weird" between Tyler and I . All I can figure is those accusations are just one more product of a sick mind.

As a self defense mechanism, maybe when he says something to you, you can retort stuff like, "That's right, keep destroying your relationship with your brother". Dont debate it with him, just repeat it as you walk away. Just a thought.

Hello Julie,
For telling me you took no offense to my reply it really made me feel a little better because I really was worried about overstepping my bounds
I usually try to look a little more before I leap but I was completely daunted by your history and amount of posts and merely used your words starting your thread.
If there's one thing I can do to maybe make you feel a little better know that I sensed all the love and passion coming to you, in your defense which clearly means to me that you project that much love out of you dear to have this tremendous impact on this very experienced group.
All the very best for your future, love Tatiana

Quote from: Julia1996 on July 21, 2018, 11:39:39 AM
Then he said " well I would love to see it if you ever want to take a picture of it and send it to me". I told him he wasn't funny. He said he wasn't trying to be funny. He totally meant it!!

I told him he was disgusting and that I couldn't believe he would be such a perve. He said he just wanted to see if it looked real and how it compared to a real one. He said he figured I would be anxious to show it off. I told him I would never go around showing everyone my genitalia and that he had a nasty mind. Then he asked me if he was supposed to believe I hadn't let anyone see it. I told him the only person who has seen it was Tristan. He said " oh yeah right. Like Tyler and your dad haven't seen it". I told him of course they hadn't and that it was messed up that he would think that. He said he figured after my dad had spent that much money on my surgery he would want to see if he got his moneys worth. He said he sure would. I told him that was because he was a perve and my dad was not. Then he said he didn't care what I said that he knew Tyler had seen it. Then he said " considering how" "close" (he did the air quotes) you two have always been I figured he would have been the first to see it and it wouldn't surprise me if he was the first to try it out".

I literally had to force myself not to slap him across the face! I told him he was a twisted ## and got in the car and left. I couldn't believe he actually said that stuff to me! But on the way home I thought about it. No doubt my uncle is perverted. I knew that already. But his wanting to see my muffin wasn't even so much about him being a perve. It's because he does not and never will consider me female. To him I'm just a " ->-bleeped-<-" with a created vagina so he didn't see anything wrong with his asking to see it. But what he said about Tyler and I was totally pervy. He has kind of implied before that Tyler and I were having some kind of sexual thing. My dad has yelled at him and thrown him out of our house a couple of times for that. The only thing I can figure is that he could never understand why my brother had been loving toward me rather that trying to beat the gay out of me like a "good" older brother should because that's what he would have done. I guess he thought I had turned Tyler gay as well. He actually warned Tyler a few times over the years that he better be careful he didn't "turn into a ->-bleeped-<-" from spending a lot of time with me.

you have more restraint than me. and im so sorry that he is like this......reminds me of many teenage boys in my area tbh*shivers* but like the others have said, you did good telling your dad. don't let your uncle get to you, he isn't worth the time of day when he isn't acting like a human. Never stop being you, and don't take any of what he says to heart, it isn't worth your time. 

Quote from: DawnOday on July 23, 2018, 12:04:14 PM
Julia, you have a beautiful relationship with your Dad and Brother. Don't let anyone take that away from you. Your father has seen what is best for you, and has no problem seeing that you become the best you possibly can. These lamebrained knuckle draggers like your uncle just don't have what it takes to understand that it is not something you woke up one day to discover. Hey how would it be to be a woman? I can imagine the pain you have gone through and you are lucky to have such a caring Father and Brother. Kick your uncle to the curb and get on with your new life. Sounds like cousin Eddie from Vacation. You don't need toxic people around you. Glad to hear you are recovering well.

don't literally kick him though(I would've but that's cause hatred I receive is physical)

Love,
Lilly Garcia


ps: I side with the ones that say restraining order.

Wow, what a creep. Glad that you are ok.

Some people are just not worth the effort of being civil to...

Actually I had an uncle ask me strange questions once. Nothing on this level, didn't ask to see anything, but I felt it was odd he would ask such questions. I don't think it was perversion, but it was being perceived as a family oddity. When people see you as an oddity, they seem to forget you're also as much a person as everyone else. They think they can ask things of you they wouldn't dare ask "a normal person".

Clearly he wouldn't ask to see anyone else's genitalia in such a manner, so he's treating you as an oddity, one that isn't deserving of the same respect of a regular person.

It's a bit creepy tho.

To be more clear, my point is that you also have to learn how to handle this guy. I know women who can expertly handle men, deflect the creepers, etc. It's a great skill.

Quote from: amandam on July 24, 2018, 11:32:14 AM
As a self defense mechanism, maybe when he says something to you, you can retort stuff like, "That's right, keep destroying your relationship with your brother". Dont debate it with him, just repeat it as you walk away. Just a thought.

Hideously creepy uncle. It's so disturbing that he thinks he'd be entitled to see if he got his "money's worth" when it comes to another person's  private parts his "property".