Hey folks, my father who is trying to be supportive has started to quote aspects from a research paper.  It has me worried since the last time he did this it was from a book he saw an interview for on Fox News.  I asked him for the name of the article, so I could read it too and post the article here to get feedback.  I imagine many of you have read this article already and I would like to know what your ideas on it are.  I believe he's trying to be supportive and also was trying to be supportive even when telling me about the interview from Fox.  I'm worried though he's relying on anything that sounds logical to him based on his own upbringing.  In short I am asking, should I be worried?  Do I need to step in and put my foot down on his support?  A bit worried here.

Bari Jo

Don't know the paper. However there is a lot of junk science out there. Take the entire vaccine thing.


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I guess it depends on who wrote the article and what it says.

There is credible research that gender does have a biological basis in the brain.  On the other hand, there are anti-trans people who say that the biological basis is in the genitals only.  So it could be good or it could be bad.

Quote from: KathyLauren on August 05, 2018, 08:17:24 PM
I guess it depends on who wrote the article and what it says.
it could be good or it could be bad.

Yup, I've tried to find it online so I could read it myself.  I only found a link to purchase.  I'm hoping somebody here has read it and can lend their understanding.  Here's the link I found btw.

http://journals.aace.com/doi/pdf/10.4158/EP14351.RA

Bari Jo

Hmm according to the conclusion listed on the page your link sends us to: there is evidence for a biological basis for gender identity. That would support dysphoria as being legitimately a biological thing and not a mental illness.

What is your father saying?


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BAsed on the summary, the paper is probably legitimate and supportive.  It is not primary research, but is a review of other people's research.  Depending on what your father gets out of it, it is probably good.

Agreed. Also lending legitimacy is the fact the it's presented by the aace.

I'm going to venture on a limb here and pose that this is an instance of Fox News living up to their standing policy of reading sentences such as:

"neo nazis believe that Jews are replacing people."

And repeating it as "Jews are replacing people"

Iow John Stewart was right. fox = Bull->-bleeped-<- mountain


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He's saying things about the brain itself is not necessarily tied with hormones, or hormone levels, x or y chromosomes, instead it tries to function at its peak efficiency.  This might have a different thought pattern than one of a cis gender person.  The brain doesn't care, it just wants efficiency.  So he is saying my brain is that with female thought patterns and isn't something that will change, with any time of hormones or therapy, even those that are contrary to affirming.  It's wasted effort, I will always have a female brain.  The hormone therapy that is prescribed on the other hand is for psychological reasons, not biological for the brain. A trans person reduces their dysphoria by aligning their body and social aspects of life to match their brain which cannot be changed.

It sounds supportive, I just don't want to miss something in the rest of the paper.

We did talk about how eventual evolution will be brain alone, and then conscious energy alone.  At that point dysphoria shouldn't exist since we won't have any physical body to not match the mind.  It's all very star trek, this bent of the conversation.  Anyway, it's made me tear up talking with him, thinking he's really turned a corner into full support.  If it isn't I'm devastated.

Bari Jo

Bari Jo,
   Those of us living being trans know the truth of what it is like. It is a matter of allowing the ones we love information enough so they can kind of see where we are coming from. Why not provide  your Dad with some reading from a writer who understands the trans experience. Rather than him happening upon something, provide him with some reading that helps him get it.
Moni

I don't think that kind or writing would make a difference to my dad.  He's a doctor, retired, so he's been reading up on papers to understand and be supportive.  He's told me many times, he will always be there for me, and uses my preferred name in writing.  I just don't want him to start reading material supported by anti trans sources.  He's bombarded by fox all the time already:(

Bari Jo

Oo tricky situation.. I would hope that if he was a good Doctor in prectice he would not be lured in by the junk science...but Fox...

I hope that he stays supportive.

Bari Jo,

I found what I think is a pdf of the article you are referring to.

https://rftbk.github.io/files/trans/2014%20Saraswat%20et%20al:%20Biological%20Gender%20ID.pdf

If you have trouble getting to it, I downloaded the pdf myself so I can forward it to you.

I have not read the article yet but I think it is in a respectable publication that is not sharpening any axes to lop of our heads with.

Stevi

Bari Jo,

QuoteHe's saying things about the brain itself is not necessarily tied with hormones, or hormone levels, x or y chromosomes, instead it tries to function at its peak efficiency.  This might have a different thought pattern than one of a cis gender person.  The brain doesn't care, it just wants efficiency.  So he is saying my brain is that with female thought patterns and isn't something that will change, with any time of hormones or therapy, even those that are contrary to affirming.  It's wasted effort, I will always have a female brain.  The hormone therapy that is prescribed on the other hand is for psychological reasons, not biological for the brain. A trans person reduces their dysphoria by aligning their body and social aspects of life to match their brain which cannot be changed.

I am having a bit of trouble parsing out what your father is saying.  Is he saying the female brain will work just as well with or without the complementary hormones or even with the wrong hormone?  If hormones don't affect the operation of the brain why do cis-women get all, shall we say, out of sorts, at certain times during their menstrual cycles.  It seems to me that hormone type and levels have a profound effect on how the brain functions.  Are female brains designed to work their best with estrogen and male brains designed to work their best with testosterone?  Hormones are important in both the physiological and the psychological aspects of the  transgender person's well being.  Hormones can bring the body into better alignment with the brain by making some changes to the body.  They cannot change the brain's structure and wiring but that does not mean they cannot make it perform better with the complementary hormone and misfire with the other.

An engine designed and built for a particular fuel does not remanufacture itself if you switch from the wrong fuel to the correct fuel, but it sure does perform better.

I really think your father may be working this out for himself in your favor.  He just needs a little more info.  You need to try to impress upon him that this is not a one size fits all solution situation.  The affected organ, the human brain, is maybe the most complex structure in all the universe.   Each of us have our own subtleties to deal with.  Ask him for his help with finding the unique solution to your unique version of this problem.

Stevi

Like someone else said, it is a review of previous study data publications. Essentially it shows agreement that being transgender is based on neurology and biology. It points out strong correlations of brain structures prenatally formed and the association with hormone exposure. Interesting the study of DES sons who had a 150 out of 500 sample report moderate to strong gender dysphoria symptoms. That is a 30% rate of those fetally exposed to DES.


I think your dad is just needing to understand the scientific reasoning why people are transgender. You said he was a doctor right?