Besides going home and feeling like crap, is there a better way? I've often fantasized about returning the gesture - misgendering them right back - but I'm not sure that's a good idea. What do you do?


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@Mikaela
Intentional misgendering is a knowingly rude action by an idiot....

This is what I had done early in my transition while out and about....   
definitely not worth any reply comment and no interaction other than ignoring it and walking away, head held high and with a smile on your face.

Hugs and more hugs,
Danielle

Honestly I feel sorry for the person.

Doing something with the intent to hurt someone else, is the mark of someone feeling bad about something in their lives and only able to feel better by making someone feel worse. Which means that, in the grand scheme of things, your life is proceeding more the way you want it to go than theirs is.

People who do something intentionally because they know it will get to you, do it because they want to see your reaction. Because it makes them feel powerful. Some people can only feel strong by making someone else feel weak. They have no real internal integrity, or sense of self belief. Truth be told they're probably feeling worse than you are.

And in that, don't hate them. Don't feel bad about yourself. Pity these people. That they have to resort to something like that to feel better about themselves. You have nothing to feel like crap about. You're being yourself. They, on the other hand, obviously do. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on August 06, 2018, 03:02:01 PM
@Mikaela
Intentional misgendering is a knowingly rude action by an idiot....

This is what I had done early in my transition while out and about....   
definitely not worth any reply comment and no interaction other than ignoring it and walking away, head held high and with a smile on your face.

Hugs and more hugs,
Danielle

Great answer. Not all fantasies need to be acted out. I am curious if anyone has done that (misgendered back), and what the reaction was. Realistically, probably just an escalation into a very uncomfortable situation, maybe even dangerous.

I remember being accidentally misgendered once while shopping in a large department store. This was before I had accepted who i was and although I presented as a man, i had long hair in a ponytail. He was very embarrassed, but I wasn't offended, and just chuckled. Secretly, I loved it, but I wasn't yet self-aware enough to acknowledge it.

Not really on topic, but it's one of my few experiences. I still present mostly male now, even though on HRT. I'm not yet ready to fully come out, living in a Central American country as a foreigner. It makes it complicated. But the sports bra isn't hiding things as well, and I'm starting to get some odd looks...


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Quote from: Sephirah on August 06, 2018, 03:09:09 PM
Honestly I feel sorry for the person.

Doing something with the intent to hurt someone else, is the mark of someone feeling bad about something in their lives and only able to feel better by making someone feel worse. Which means that, in the grand scheme of things, your life is proceeding more the way you want it to go than theirs is.

People who do something intentionally because they know it will get to you, do it because they want to see your reaction. Because it makes them feel powerful. Some people can only feel strong by making someone else feel weak. They have no real internal integrity, or sense of self belief. Truth be told they're probably feeling worse than you are.

And in that, don't hate them. Don't feel bad about yourself. Pity these people. That they have to resort to something like that to feel better about themselves. You have nothing to feel like crap about. You're being yourself. They, on the other hand, obviously do. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.

Wow, so true. Something I think a lot of people miss about being transgender is how much courage and intention it takes. Few take such powerful actions in their lives to effect change. It's easier to complain about their crappy job or relationship than do something about it. A transgender woman (or man) takes this to a whole new level. I admire anyone with that much courage of their convictions and readiness to do whatever it takes.


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How do i handle intentional misgendering?

By showing the jerk my third finger, looking at the person as if i'm ready to seriously hurt or kill them, and rudely moving past and ignoring them after that... or even telling them they can go [screw] themselves.

The end. 

Quote from: Annaiyah on August 06, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
How do i handle intentional misgendering?

By showing the jerk my third finger, looking at the person as if i'm ready to seriously hurt or kill them, and rudely moving past and ignoring them after that... or even telling them they can go [screw] themselves.

The end. 

@Annaiyah
I really and sincerely hope that you were joking.   We are never going to change their mind by engaging them in any way, and in fact by flipping them off to saying nasty things to them can only escalate the already bad situation.... it easily could escalate into physical violence.

My priority goal when I started to transition and then finally became full time and came out to all my friends in my small town was to give the very best impression of what a trans-woman is....  kind, considerate, friendly, intelligent, outgoing, positive thinker, dress and act respectively and most often conservatively (in this very small conservative town)  ...    flying under the radar so to speak.

No one in my town had ever met or talked to a transwoman before I arrived.  They only knew what they saw and read in the NEWS ... which usually does not paint a good picture of what a trans-woman is.   
Again, my goal was to change their impression and that can first happen by not flipping them off and cussing at those that wanted to insult me me or be rude to me.   Ignoring, walking away, head held high, and with a smile is my mode of operation.

As a result I have enjoyed almost unanimous acceptance among most people here where I live, play and work.

That is just my real life opinion and experience... that is all..........   

Hugs,
Danielle

I am  a 9 year work in progress as a survivor of childhood sexual and psychological abuse. Therapy has taught me not to swallow my feelings or to meet aggression with aggression. When someone hurts me, I explain to them how what they did affected me. This frees me from my emotions and people seem to understand at a deeper level why what they did was wrong when they actually SEE they have hurt you.

I was paying for my things at the supermarket when the checker went through each item , cheese £1.50 Sir, Bread £1 Sir then finished off with have a nice day Sir.
"You too bitch!" was my reply. His mates fell about laughing,  I then heard the manager say "Paul, see me when your shifts over". never seen Paul working there again!

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on August 06, 2018, 03:54:14 PM
@Annaiyah
I really and sincerely hope that you were joking.   We are never going to change their mind by engaging them in any way, and in fact by flipping them off to saying nasty things to them can only escalate the already bad situation.... it easily could escalate into physical violence.

My priority goal when I started to transition and then finally became full time and came out to all my friends in my small town was to give the very best impression of what a trans-woman is....  kind, considerate, friendly, intelligent, outgoing, positive thinker, dress and act respectively and most often conservatively (in this very small conservative town)  ...    flying under the radar so to speak.

No one in my town had ever met or talked to a transwoman before I arrived.  They only knew what they saw and read in the NEWS ... which usually does not paint a good picture of what a trans-woman is.   
Again, my goal was to change their impression and that can first happen by not flipping them off and cussing at those that wanted to insult me me or be rude to me.   Ignoring, walking away, head held high, and with a smile is my mode of operation.

As a result I have enjoyed almost unanimous acceptance among most people here where I live, play and work.

That is just my real life opinion and experience... that is all..........   

Hugs,
Danielle

I've had clocking experiences where i wish i'd done that.

Don't know if these events are in chronological order but there was this one time, i was walking down the street and this husky Black dude who was selling body oil to passerby's tried to stop me and was calling out at me like "Bro!" I ignored him. He called at me again, "Bro!" in an annoyance-sounding "don't you hear me calling you?" type of tone. Again, i ignored him again but he didn't give up. He was telling me about some kind of oil he wanted to sell to me saying exactly, "you can have it!" like he was going to give it to me free. Still walking past the jerk i did a "not interested" hand gesture, which i wish i'd not done. He was misgendering me and therefore deserved to be rudely ignored.

Another instance was when i was walking down the street (same general area, same city, slightly different location) and these three older men were conversing among themselves. As i passed the three men, all three of them looked at me and one of them said "Hey, what up, brotha! Where you going?" Thankfully, i gave them NO RESPONSE whatsoever and didn't stop for a second! Not that i enjoy being clocked but that gave me a LOT of satisfaction!

I got clocked outside Walmart in November 2013 and it was a VERY traumatic experience... so much so that i wish i'd done what i'd described above in what you quoted me saying. Instead of elaborating on it, since i've already detailed that experience in a past thread i'll just post the link to it here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=154541.0

And then there was this sack-of-crap who clearly most-likely had mental problems: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=207852.0

I don't exactly recommend doing what i said i would do as it may very well result in a violent confrontation (especially when we transwomen tend to be on the receiving end of violence excessively already) but they do deserve the rudeness and if it's done in a PUBLIC, well-populated place where people nearby may be willing to help then it could be somewhat an okay thing to do as you don't need to be polite to the person clocking you.

Quote from: big kim on August 06, 2018, 04:49:09 PM
I was paying for my things at the supermarket when the checker went through each item , cheese £1.50 Sir, Bread £1 Sir then finished off with have a nice day Sir.
"You too bitch!" was my reply. His mates fell about laughing,  I then heard the manager say "Paul, see me when your shifts over". never seen Paul working there again!

AHHHHH! Justice and karma served at its finest! Hope that would happen with me one day! 

Karma is a bitch, isn't it, "Paul!"

I hasn't really happened to me that I know of... it might have, but I'm not 100% sure it's entirely intentional.

Anyway, if it was, I just remind myself my sense of self isn't defined by what other people say or think. They haven't got even the slightest inkling as to the vastness of my own personal inner experience. They know practically nothing. And they can think I'm a purple giraffe for all I care.

Maybe some people had the luxury of being considered "normal" at school. I didn't. That's a lifetime of practice of not giving a crap. And a lifetime of realizing that if someone doesn't respect you or do what you want, it doesn't impact your life that much unless they happen to be someone up in your face 24/7. Strangers on the street? Who cares. You'll probably never see them again.

It's different if it's a family member, spouse or coworker you can't get away from. But why does it even matter if some nobody on the street doesn't get it? They are nobody. There are still imbeciles out there even if the reason you got upset wasn't misgendering - they could be all up in your face being a sexist fool instead. Or just a general fool to everyone passing by. My advice - such people are a waste of brain energy that could be spent on better things.

Quote from: Kylo on August 06, 2018, 05:52:30 PM
I hasn't really happened to me that I know of... it might have, but I'm not 100% sure it's entirely intentional.

Anyway, if it was, I just remind myself my sense of self isn't defined by what other people say or think. They haven't got even the slightest inkling as to the vastness of my own personal inner experience. They know practically nothing. And they can think I'm a purple giraffe for all I care.

Maybe some people had the luxury of being considered "normal" at school. I didn't. That's a lifetime of practice of not giving a crap.

I like this. One of my favorite quotes is

"It's none of your business what others think about you."

Right?


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Quote from: Mikaela on August 06, 2018, 05:56:32 PM
I like this. One of my favorite quotes is

"It's none of your business what others think about you."

Right?


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Exactly right.

I first heard that when someone asked Sir Anthony Hopkins what he thought if someone thinks he might have given a bad performance - (which so far I've not ever seen him give)... but he said the same thing... "it's not really my business what someone thinks of me." And he never seems worried.

I thought it was an excellent thing to keep in mind.

Danielle your situation sounds different to me. You were passing until being outed by one of your suitors... Unless I'm confused and you're referring to early in your transition?

Well, I am early in my transition and not lucky enough to pass right out of the gate.

Typically I do ignore being misgendered but I had gone a while without being gendered at all. She seemed like a butch lesbian to me and I had seen her before. Well she called me sir (breaking a "streak" of people avoiding gendering me, or so I thought) and I said "thank you, sir" back to her. In the moment I didn't feel great, but I didn't feel bad either. I was semi polite, right? [emoji4]
Well the next time I went it was the same person and she didn't misgender me.

But... I've been misgendered a lot since. I've seen and can feel people looking at me very intensely, probably to decide on my "male" gender (or so they think...)


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Intentionally or not, I always ignore it unless it's someone close to me, then I correct them. But I mostly ignore it and just feel like crap inside.

If it's intentionally done out of spite, I'll return the favor. If they're so smart that they know who I am better than I do, surely I can choose the same thing for them.

If it's because they don't know better, which is 99% of cases (I'm not on hormones yet and still present as a man, so...) I'll just roll with it.

My favorite thing is when they accidentally gender me correctly. I'll be out and about as a man, and occasionally I'll hear someone say, "ma'am?" behind me. They usually apologize profusely when I turn around, and I'll just say something like, "oh, trust me, I get that more than you'd imagine." I'm not going to just come out to random store employees, but I'll let them know I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me.

Sometimes I fold up like a house of cards and cry.

My preferred method is to smile and say "I prefer Miss, but I understand I'm sending mixed signals."

Thankfully the only time that's happened to me was if I ran into people who knew me from school. I didn't ever give them a response. People were so mean to me when I was in high school that anything they said pretty much had no effect on me at that point. Interestingly I was misgendered by boys in high school intentionally and quite often. The thing was that at that time I was technically still a boy. They had no idea calling me " she", "her", "sweetheart" and "princess" didn't bother me in the slightest. I know they meant those things as very insulting but of course they weren't.  One guy always called me "snow queen". I suppose because I am so white and I was very feminine. Small minded buffoon. Lol

The last time I was intentionally misgendered was a couple of days ago by my Mom. 

She was at my brother's house and had me on speaker phone.  She referred to me as "Aunt X," and I promptly replied with "you mean Uncle Ryu."  She didn't say anything after than, so I started talking to my nieces, who never really knew me as female. 

Mom started talking after that, but I think its starting to sink in that I'll always correct her whenever she misgenders/misnames me.

Other people I don't know simply get corrected.  I usually correct them with the proper pronoun, or simply say, "I'm a guy/man/etc." and they usually apologize.

It hurts me more that my own Mom deliberately misnames and misgenders me.  I'm guessing I'll be correcting her for the rest of her life. 

Ryuichi

Quote from: Ryuichi13 on August 16, 2018, 01:07:43 AM
The last time I was intentionally misgendered was a couple of days ago by my Mom. 

She was at my brother's house and had me on speaker phone.  She referred to me as "Aunt X," and I promptly replied with "you mean Uncle Ryu."  She didn't say anything after than, so I started talking to my nieces, who never really knew me as female. 

Mom started talking after that, but I think its starting to sink in that I'll always correct her whenever she misgenders/misnames me.

Other people I don't know simply get corrected.  I usually correct them with the proper pronoun, or simply say, "I'm a guy/man/etc." and they usually apologize.

It hurts me more that my own Mom deliberately misnames and misgenders me.  I'm guessing I'll be correcting her for the rest of her life. 

Ryuichi

My mother does this as well... not intentionally, I know it's just that she's 71, and it's a lifetime of habit for her, but it still hurts... I haven't started correcting her yet as I'm still presenting mostly as male, but it will be coming soon, and I'm just hoping I don't hurt her too badly with it.  *sigh* Then there's the rest of my family... fundamentalist... saying no more.