Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
I haven't started HRT yet, so before I do I thought I'd ask.

@Danielle Kristina
Dear Danielle:
Thanks for starting this thread on a subject that all transitioning or soon to be transitioning members are most interested in.
Hugs,
Danielle  (the Alaskan one)

@AshleyP
Thank you for your informational and encouraging posting of your personal experiences...  many new members and transtioners will find what you stated very helpful.

Hugs,
Danielle

Proportional to how "manly" someone looks, how long might it take for the effects to be impossible to hide? A short, slender person will probably end up looking female sooner than a tall, stocky person, allowing a tall stocky person to hide longer. Or alternatively, perhaps a tall stocky person will show the signs more prominently because feminine features would look more out of place on a tall stocky person, regardless of attractiveness or possibility. Anyone have personal experience with this?

Quote from: Lucca on August 12, 2018, 12:20:47 AM
Proportional to how "manly" someone looks, how long might it take for the effects to be impossible to hide? A short, slender person will probably end up looking female sooner than a tall, stocky person, allowing a tall stocky person to hide longer. Or alternatively, perhaps a tall stocky person will show the signs more prominently because feminine features would look more out of place on a tall stocky person, regardless of attractiveness or possibility. Anyone have personal experience with this?

I'd be curious to hear from others regarding that myself.

Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 12, 2018, 12:48:20 AM
I'd be curious to hear from others regarding that myself.

If the only thing you do to feminize yourself is HRT, then it would probably be a couple of years before others will notice any changes (I was able to hide breast growth with a tight tank top or t-shirt under another shirt, or scrubs at work), because the effects of HRT are gradual and subtle, therefore, if you don't start growing out your hair, or change your voice, mannerisms, do electrolysis, and other things people will not notice very much. And If you're "stocky", HRT will not shrink your musculature in a few months, some people will say it will, but it won't, so you would have to restrict your daily caloric intake, and also exercise if you want to be slim.

Quote from: AshleyP on August 12, 2018, 01:42:47 AM
At what point did you feel the need to start to hide your breast growth?

It was around 8 months

Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on August 12, 2018, 01:37:30 AM
If the only thing you do to feminize yourself is HRT, then it would probably be a couple of years before others will notice any changes (I was able to hide breast growth with a tight tank top or t-shirt under another shirt, or scrubs at work), because the effects of HRT are gradual and subtle, therefore, if you don't start growing out your hair, or change your voice, mannerisms, do electrolysis, and other things people will not notice very much. And If you're "stocky", HRT will not shrink your musculature in a few months, some people will say it will, but it won't, so you would have to restrict your daily caloric intake, and also exercise if you want to be slim.

I think this is the part that varies wildly across different people. For me, I was so thin at the time that the breast growth was pretty obvious even though it still at the 12 month mark is barely hitting an A. Even with a sports bra or a tight shirt it wasn't helping much so I reverted to baggy clothes. I know one woman locally who grew a B size chest in a year, so you would probably need to bind to stay stealth as a male with that.

Also, for me I cannot wear men's pants and dress shirts anymore, or at least not without going up a few sizes. At around the 8 month mark I started developing hips and a butt. It was a bit strange getting used to not needing a belt to keep pants and shorts from falling off of me.

And skin complexion changed. To your point, if you are not doing any hair removal, that might not be obvious. But maybe it would be, who knows.

Quote from: jill610 on August 12, 2018, 03:43:45 AM
I think this is the part that varies wildly across different people. For me, I was so thin at the time that the breast growth was pretty obvious even though it still at the 12 month mark is barely hitting an A. Even with a sports bra or a tight shirt it wasn't helping much so I reverted to baggy clothes. I know one woman locally who grew a B size chest in a year, so you would probably need to bind to stay stealth as a male with that.

Also, for me I cannot wear men's pants and dress shirts anymore, or at least not without going up a few sizes. At around the 8 month mark I started developing hips and a butt. It was a bit strange getting used to not needing a belt to keep pants and shorts from falling off of me.

And skin complexion changed. To your point, if you are not doing any hair removal, that might not be obvious. But maybe it would be, who knows.

I've started growing my hair out.  It's got a long way to go before it looks anything close to feminine.  I also recently pierced my right ear ( my left ear was pierced some 20 years ago, though I seldom wore an ear ring).  I don't grow much body hair as it is, so I may not need electrolysis, but we'll see.  No voice therapy yet, but I see it in when I think about my transition future.  On the other hand, with my wearing ear rings, growing out my hair, and a gradual change from HRT people might begin to suspect the truth.  Then again, maybe not.  I'm scared and excited at the same time.

Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 12, 2018, 04:02:57 AM
I've started growing my hair out.  It's got a long way to go before it looks anything close to feminine.  I also recently pierced my right ear ( my left ear was pierced some 20 years ago, though I seldom wore an ear ring).  I don't grow much body hair as it is, so I may not need electrolysis, but we'll see.  No voice therapy yet, but I see it in when I think about my transition future.  On the other hand, with my wearing ear rings, growing out my hair, and a gradual change from HRT people might begin to suspect the truth.  Then again, maybe not.  I'm scared and excited at the same time.

Voice takes a long time to get nailed, I am still working on mine. Part of the hard part is training your muscles into the new normal. That takes time. In hindsight, knowing what I know now, I would have started laser and voice earlier in the process. Laser is effective but painful, I believe far more painful than electrolysis, but you wait 6-8 weeks between sessions. I just had number nine yesterday and feel like I got punched in the face. But totally worth it. If you have light skin and dark hair, losing the blue shadow and being able to go out without makeup is a pretty big deal both for for passing and your own self esteem. Hormones do not affect secondary sex characteristics, so facial hair won't thin out from hormones. Other body hair will.

Oh yes, perhaps I should have specified. I'm planning to start laser, grow my hair long, and lose some weight before going on HRT, and possibly start shaving my legs and arms as well. I doubt any of those without HRT are going to give anyone pause beyond "hey, you look a bit different than you did eight months ago," but I'm still unsure of how long it will be after that before anyone notices anything drastically out of the ordinary for a man. I'm not entirely certain about exactly how "manly" my body looks either, for that matter. I'm pretty wide and tall, but I have also have pretty curvy legs, noticabely large breasts for a male, and am not muscular at all.

I'm kind of at a point where I just don't give a crap what other people think about my appearance, except that I'd like to have the option to stay closeted at work for as long as possible.

Can you get close supervision and lab tests by a knowledgeable doctor?  I get frequent screenings and doctor visits, so I have a better handle on my diet than most people.  Blood tests would certainly help in guiding you precisely to your goal.

This may be a good time to come out, especially if your company has been doing sexual harassment training for all its employees.  With this knowledge fresh on the minds of key personnel, you are more likely to have a favorable outcome.  Also, companies are having problems finding workers with all the harassment of immigrants.  You are likely to get more slack if they can't replace you.

If you are getting close to retirement it may also be a good idea to transition.  You may have medical benefits that may not be available when you retire.  Good time to fix your teeth.  Also, changes to pensions and retirement plans may mean that if they do let you go, your 401k retirement plan goes with you.  They may want you to hang around to teach the new guy.  Ideally, you may have co-workers who would act as your support network.  You never know who will help you.  The bigger the group of people you associate with the better chance you have of having a few who will provide the support you need.

Quote from: Maid Marion on August 12, 2018, 09:55:40 AM
Can you get close supervision and lab tests by a knowledgeable doctor?  I get frequent screenings and doctor visits, so I have a better handle on my diet than most people.  Blood tests would certainly help in guiding you precisely to your goal.

This may be a good time to come out, especially if your company has been doing sexual harassment training for all its employees.  With this knowledge fresh on the minds of key personnel, you are more likely to have a favorable outcome.  Also, companies are having problems finding workers with all the harassment of immigrants.  You are likely to get more slack if they can't replace you.

If you are getting close to retirement it may also be a good idea to transition.  You may have medical benefits that may not be available when you retire.  Good time to fix your teeth.  Also, changes to pensions and retirement plans may mean that if they do let you go, your 401k retirement plan goes with you.  They may want you to hang around to teach the new guy.  Ideally, you may have co-workers who would act as your support network.  You never know who will help you.  The bigger the group of people you associate with the better chance you have of having a few who will provide the support you need.

I shave my legs, underarms, arms, and chest, but not every day.  I often let my hair grow out not because I want the hair, but because shaving all over is such a chore and I don't always feel like doing it.  I may eventually begin hair removal once I've progressed enough in my transition.

Quote from: Lucca on August 12, 2018, 12:20:47 AM
Proportional to how "manly" someone looks, how long might it take for the effects to be impossible to hide? A short, slender person will probably end up looking female sooner than a tall, stocky person, allowing a tall stocky person to hide longer. Or alternatively, perhaps a tall stocky person will show the signs more prominently because feminine features would look more out of place on a tall stocky person, regardless of attractiveness or possibility. Anyone have personal experience with this?

I pass without HRT.  I get misgendered on the phone all the time.  I short and and thin.  5' 3" 108 lbs and a 32-26-32 figure.  But my proportions are quite good, so I can wear woman's small or XS clothes right off the rack.  Small is a little loose, which is how a guy normally wears clothes.  XS is a little tight, which is how women wear clothes.

Quote from: Maid Marion on August 12, 2018, 07:11:45 PM
I pass without HRT.  I get misgendered on the phone all the time.  I short and and thin.  5' 3" 108 lbs and a 32-26-32 figure.  But my proportions are quite good, so I can wear woman's small or XS clothes right off the rack.  Small is a little loose, which is how a guy normally wears clothes.  XS is a little tight, which is how women wear clothes.

Your body looked very muscular and defined in the pictures you posted of yourself wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and sandals in the do I pass thread.

Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on August 12, 2018, 07:19:13 PM
Your body looked very muscular and defined in the pictures you posted of yourself wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and sandals in the do I pass thread.

Yes it is, especially in the summer when I do a lot of yard work.  But folks misgender me all the time. Even when wearing a t-shirt and shorts.

The most memorable example was in an empty airport just after 9-11. We got there real early in the morning  The TSA guy greeted me and my wife with "hello ladies."

You know, he's another question; does total beard removal look particularly unusual on a male who isn't otherwise doing anything to physically transition? I know plenty of guys who are capable of shaving and looking completely hairless, so I'm guessing not. It'll be obvious that I'm doing it because my facial hair is so dark, but I'd like to know if there's anything about it that looks decidedly feminine before I start.

I don't know if it's true at all that no one will notice until 2 years... Even with facial hair and short hair, it may be possible be will notice. Those who say something will be the ones closest to you.
In my case, like I said, my family made comments. Coworkers and clients would make weird facial expressions, especially after not seeing me for a while.
That was all about 3-4 months into hrt for me.
I read here not much happens and I really was thinking I could hide for atleast a year but I didn't even get a quarter of that... Well it's ok I guess because the goal is feminization.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Well, I'll be getting laser rather than electrolysis initially, if that makes a difference. I don't plan on hiding the fact that I'm getting it either, I'll just be up front and say that I hate having stubble and I hate shaving, which is true. I'd considered having my facial hair removed even before the idea of transitioning popped into my head. If there are affects on your appearance besides simply "not having facial hair" though, I do want to be aware of it beforehand.