Hi everybody, I wanted to ask if anyone can relate to my situation.

It's been 6 years by now since I officially transitioned (M2F), and my therapist, endocrinologist, basically everybody thinks I am a good example for a successful transition. I seem to pass well (at least I don't notice that people read me in everyday life), I am married to a wonderful woman who I fortunately met after my transition. We have a beautiful daughter and are expecting a second child.

Still, I am not happy. I still hate my body and am very sad about the way it looks. I had lots of surgical procedures (FFS, SRS, voice surgery, breast, butt and hip augmentation, liposuction and more), but I still think about my body as male. When I see other women, I always feel like a "colossus" with my height (183 cm), body frame and voice (I still hate my voice, even after intense training and surgery). I just feel ashamed and like a "fake" woman. I just can't come to terms with the fact that I had to be born as a male, and especially that I had to go through male puberty. I am feeling so depressed that I gained a lot of weight (over 20 kg) lately which doesn't exactly help, but I just can't get rid of it. I also don't think that I would feel any better if I'd lose the weight because I couldn't accept my body when I was skinny either.

I had a LOT of therapy in my life and am also on antidepressants, so I am slowly running out of options... Are there other people here with similar problems? What can I do?

Hugs honey. I can only point out that there are many cis gendered women and men who are unhappy with some or many of their body parts or shape, it's just a result of Western press and idealism for the body perfect.

There are many things I'd possibly change about myself with a magic wand, but I don't got one!

What I'll suggest is to move your focus outward. Finding a cause, hobby or interest you can both contribute to, and that will reward you emotionally will give you a better measure of yourself and your value. With that you may well find, as I do, that appearance soon becomes a lower priority in your life.

Stay positive, and reach out for help if you ever need it. X

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It doesn't sound like you've reached self acceptance if you think of yourself as a fake. I'd say keep banging away on that with your therapist. Personally, I  was well past self acceptance before I started any hormones or surgery.

Hugs, Devlyn

I was there sometime recently and even more so before that. Hell, I even detransitioned for a few months because of those nagging feelings. Early in transition I was convinced I'd need a dozen surgeries to ever see myself as a woman and the further along I got with transition, the worse it got. Even if everyone in the world thought I was a woman, I knew in my own mind I wasn't. I don't think it was until SRS that I felt I could really see myself as a woman, and the surgery itself probably wasn't the reason for it at all. I just stopped thinking about it.

Having friends who know you for who you are, remembering you're more than just your gender(the hardest one for me) and getting out of your own head for a while. I think that's all it takes. It's probably got nothing to do with appearance at all, you seem to be chasing perfection.

Maybe spend some time away from family? Anything that reminds you of your past? You don't have to run from it forever, but take a breather and revisit it when you're in a better state of mind. Then maybe you can forget the nasty male memories.

You are totally not a colossus either, hon. I've got two or three inches on ya. You're shorter than some cis women in my family, and every girl in my family has a similarly deep voice. So you're just a boring ol' normie, I'm sorry to say.

I guess I'm just trying to throw out ideas and suggestions I wish someone had told me. All this aside, a thousand hugs. It will get better, I have no doubt. And you're certainly not alone.

This is a difficult one. I feel for you, I really do. Both in denial of Trans identity and in Trans identity Ive sought and still seek physical improvement.
The struggle for self acceptance is hard and is not limited to us Trans people its something Humanity in general has. Just our struggle can be more challenging or at least seem that way at times

I think what is hard to accept, for most of us, is that 90% of Trans Women will never be able to look similar to a Hollywood actress . Now this dosent mean we aren't beautiful or desirable or worthy of praise. It just means our look and beauty is usually going to be different to Cis Women. No amount of surgery will make me a bombshell. Learning to live with that is not easy, but I suggest its what we both do.

That you are tall, has its pluses. No one will ignore you or look on you as small and feeble. Many people find height to be attractive. And for a Woman 1.83 isnt that tall. Dafne Schippers the Dutch Sprinter is that or more in height, and shes not small either, yet is a very beautiful woman. Shes not a dainty doll, and thats maybe what makes her beautiful....

I agree with another poster, its worth speaking More to therpaists and maybe group therapy to find more self acceptance of being Trans.

Lastly, having known my fair share of very glamorous cis women, who have had surgeries in the multiples .they don't tend to be the happiest types. Maybe aim to slim down a bit to drop some of the 20kg you gained (maybe drop 10), and then just try to be ok with how you look. We can't be perfect. No one is!

While you asked "if anyone can relate to my situation" - I have to say not I.  But -

Body dysmorphia isn't uncommon and it affects all kinds of people.  Part of the TS experience actually makes us more qualified and understanding of it to a degree.  Maybe that you're not there yet is not having completely reached self acceptance.  That is - we are who we are - no matter what shell we live in - it doesn't completely define us.
No one's perfect.  You would be the first person in history to be.  Is that realistic?

Unsolicited advice from an elder survivor who is taller than you and moves freely in circles with other women of all origins  - take your inward focusing energy and turn it outward towards life and doing positive things - being positive towards others.  Get moving forward and in time life just has a way of working through to arrive where it needs to be.

Does your wife have any suggestions on activities you can do to make you feel more like a woman?  Sure, image is a big part of gender.  But, for better or worse, a lot of activities tend to be genderized as well.

"Activities" - is a good thought.  Many many years ago I got involved in women's golf - even though we've moved several times it's something which gets me out and about and actively participating in a community - constantly meeting new people and making lots of friends no matter where we go.  Find something that clicks for you independent of the same old routine - and go for it.  :-)

In the process of assimilating, one can see from the inside out that women come in all shapes and sizes and types.  While I might be 10% taller than average - there are ones who are 10% shorter too!  etc. etc.  Why fret?  Lots of people have challenges in life.   We can only change so much on the outside - but the inside is limitless if we give ourselves permission.

Maybe the issue is one of unrealistic expectations.  I read a lot of posts here about people who transition and then believe that they are now cisgender women.  They "expect" all the wonders of modern science, i.e. surgeries and hormones to actually transform them into something they are not and never will be. A cisgender women.  When the unrealistic expectaion (of being a cisgender woman) meets up with the reality (of being a transgender women) there is conflict.  Acceptance is about realizing the truth. Not subjective truth, but objective truth.  This one basic truth.  We are not cisgender women and we never will be.

Once one's expectations about what transition can and can't provide are finally balanced with reality one is then freed from the conflict that arises from unrealistic expectations.

I find that becomeing involved in the transgender community,  having transgender friends, and going to transgender support group meetings helps me to clear my mind of unrealistic expectations and focus it on the realities of my world.  I also gain strength from seeing how other transgender people deal with being transgender. Living it. Accepting it.

I agree with the first sentence, you lose me on the rest.

Cisgender is 'born with matching mind and body gender' .. no trans will ever be cisgender, it's impossible. As far as I am concerned, they are already women though. A trans feeling woman CAN became a woman physically (barring normal exclusion, birthing capabilities and what-not, lets not split hairs) to ease the dysphoric rampage and better fit their mental state.

I never read a post on here where someone now believes that they are a ciswoman.

Unrealistic expectations, I agree with. My head is full of them. People develop, one way or another, an internal 'this is how I need to look' pattern, whether they can picture it or not. The mirror tells them if it matches or not. This is the unrealistic expectation that needs attention. Cisgender go through the same things, thus, cosmetic plastic surgeons (as opposed to medically necessary) are getting rich off them.

We are all taught one way or another what is the ideal expectation. What needs to be taught is self-acceptance ... I'm working on that one ... failing so far.

**I may have mis-worded that point that I'm trying to make, I'm good at that.**

Quote from: Janes Groove on August 14, 2018, 11:14:37 AM
Maybe the issue is one of unrealistic expectations.  I read a lot of posts here about people who transition and then believe that they are now cisgender women.  They "expect" all the wonders of modern science, i.e. surgeries and hormones to actually transform them into something they are not and never will be. A cisgender women.  When the unrealistic expectaion (of being a cisgender woman) meets up with the reality (of being a transgender women) there is conflict.  Acceptance is about realizing the truth. Not subjective truth, but objective truth.  This one basic truth.  We are not cisgender women and we never will be.

Once one's expectations about what transition can and can't provide are finally balanced with reality one is then freed from the conflict that arises from unrealistic expectations.

I find that becomeing involved in the transgender community,  having transgender friends, and going to transgender support group meetings helps me to clear my mind of unrealistic expectations and focus it on the realities of my world.  I also gain strength from seeing how other transgender people deal with being transgender. Living it. Accepting it.

Quote from: evenstar on August 12, 2018, 05:55:29 AM
Still, I am not happy. I still hate my body and am very sad about the way it looks. I had lots of surgical procedures (FFS, SRS, voice surgery, breast, butt and hip augmentation, liposuction and more), but I still think about my body as male. When I see other women, I always feel like a "colossus" with my height (183 cm), body frame and voice (I still hate my voice, even after intense training and surgery). I just feel ashamed and like a "fake" woman. I just can't come to terms with the fact that I had to be born as a male, and especially that I had to go through male puberty.

(Bold emphasis is mine.)  I have to ask - do you really believe that boldface text?  Do you really believe that you were born as a male?

As for me, whenever I talk about myself with friends, I never say that I was born as a male.  Instead I say that I was assigned male at birth (AMAB).  Or, I'll say that I was born with a male body.  Or, I'll say that I lived as a man.  But I will never say that I actually was a male at any point in my life.  Because I firmly believe it's simply not true.

While it's true that I was born with a male body, does that mean I was born as a male?  No!  I know I was born with a female mind, a female brain, and a female soul.  What is truly important - what separates humans from other species is not the biological sum of our parts, but our sense of self; our ability to think and feel.  What's really important - what really defines who I am, is my mind - and my mind is fully female.  By transitioning, I aligned my body to match my true female self inside.

I've come to a place in my transition through HRT and various surgeries where my body is fully female.  Everyone around me treats me as a woman.  People who find out later that I'm transgender are genuinely surprised.  Yes, there are some days where I wish I had a chance to have gone through my childhood and adolescence living as a female, but it doesn't make me feel any less of a woman now.  Because I've always been a woman.  I am now at peace within myself because I believe that with all my heart.

I hope you can eventually come to a place where you truly believe the same.  Because no amount of surgeries or physical changes can change your internal perception of yourself.  Self-acceptance has to come from within.  In my opinion it's the most important step of transition.

I do lots of activities that are typically oriented toward females, watching chick flicks, eating chocolate, shopping for stuff I don't really need, growing flowers, and cooking.

I agree with Devlyn, echo7, Alexa Ares, ShotGal, and Faith's comments about self-acceptance; it took me 8 years post transition to reach it, but when I finally achieved it, my perception of being trans changed, and I am actually a bit proud of it; I don't go around telling people I'm trans, but if someone asked me about it, I wouldn't deny it, because I am, and there's nothing wrong with it!  Self-Acceptance is a wellspring of strength, self-confidence, and Happiness😊

I understand no matter how much others accept and view us, self love is going to go the furthest.
Maybe you need to redefine what being a woman means to you again?
Or even learn to give yourself some slack for "who you were born as". If we all are defined by the moment we're born than we're all just fetuses aren't we?
Being a man and woman isn't black and white. Not anymore. This is a good time to be trans, for the most part.

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@evenstar

I really agree with what Devlyn, Jane and MissyMay said above. 
You have to accept yourself as you are. Most of the physical changes we all make are really just cosmetic, the girl is inside you and she was there when you were born.

Congratulations on your new child arriving soon and the one you already have - an absolute joy! Children really need a lot of love, and as they grow older they will accept you, and in time hopefully you will agree and accept yourself as well.

Hold your head high,

Sonja.

The truth is, none of us really knows what it feels like to be a man or a woman in some absolute sense.  We only know what it feels like to be ourselves, and then try to discover how our feelings relate to others.  The fact is, we all go through that experience in the early years of our lives with a huge dose of parental and social pressure to adopt the gender that matches our assigned sex.  For many of us, childhood gender indoctrination creates a horrible conflict with our inborn sexual identity -- our brain sex.

I didn't get the sense that you do not possess this inner sexual identity.  It is the mismatch between your self-concept as a female and the maleness of your body that is causing you persistent unhappiness.   I can relate.  And so can many transsexual women who have suffered the effects of years of testosterone on their bodies.  It's awful.  You are now a female hormonally and physically, but somehow it's not enough to resolve the conflict. 

After six years of transition, with all the feminization surgeries you have elected, that's a concern.  I don't know what it will take to get past this.  Time, therapy, or even hypnosis might help.  It's also possible that you weren't born with a female brain to begin with, were somehow misled down the transition path.  Hopefully, that not the case, and I'm not saying it is.

My personal opinion is that you are one of the lucky ones.  You have a supportive wife, a young family, public acceptance as a woman, and a long life ahead of you.   

I guess it boils down to insecurities mounting due to no confidence or external pressure?
I do too. Many a times in fact, undergoing depression and very sensitive to people's comment around me that drove me suicidal at times. However it's with the closest one and that is my spouse and daughter that kept me focus that they are the ones that I should be more focussed on and the ones that can keep me mentally sane.
Weight should not be an issue to lose it up to your determination. Height well I guess in western countries, i have seen much taller women than you, so no worries.

Hon, It's all on you. You have to make it happen. Nobody can do it for you.  It takes work and determination. But, you are capable of anything.

https://www.harpercollins.com/9780061969942/the-beauty-myth/

Now that you look like a woman, you ought to study this best selling book by Naomi Watts, The Beauty Myth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beauty_Myth
And what Wikipedia has to say about it.

Just another thought on this here.  May or may not be relevant.   Rhetorically, Is it possible that what you're feeling isn't really entirely somatic?  While I admire those who manage to keep families together through transition - there's also an unspoken underlying element of "the bird never left the nest" type of thing - which might contribute to one feeling limitations/discomfort outside of that zone.  YMMV    Just a thought, not trying to stir up trouble!  :-)

Quote from: ShotGal on August 13, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
While you asked "if anyone can relate to my situation" - I have to say not I.  But -

Body dysmorphia isn't uncommon and it affects all kinds of people.  Part of the TS experience actually makes us more qualified and understanding of it to a degree.  Maybe that you're not there yet is not having completely reached self acceptance.  That is - we are who we are - no matter what shell we live in - it doesn't completely define us.
No one's perfect.  You would be the first person in history to be.  Is that realistic?

Unsolicited advice from an elder survivor who is taller than you and moves freely in circles with other women of all origins  - take your inward focusing energy and turn it outward towards life and doing positive things - being positive towards others.  Get moving forward and in time life just has a way of working through to arrive where it needs to be.