So earlier this week I had an odd conversation with a coworker.

I don't want to put too much identifiable info out there, but the conversation went something like this: (I'm a scientist)

Me: I didn't get the grant I wanted to do this particular experiment on a particular machine at another lab. But if I apply for this other grant then I could actually build a whole new machine that could better do the experiments I want, I'd just need X,Y, and Z changes. Plus since it's a 5 year grant I could make the initial experiment on the other machine a part of year 1.
Him: well the new grant is too big to do the original experiment alone, but you could build your own machine.
Me: right, that's what I was saying,
Him: and you should probably make X, Y, and Z changes because ______


It just went on like this, at first I thought I was just doing a really bad job of communicating. Now after thinking about it  the best way i can describe it is that he was explaining my own idea to me.

Assuming this is part of being a woman, it's interesting since this person has known me for 7 years, and I've only been full time for under 4 months. It's interesting that people can slide into these types of behaviors so readily.

This is to me to. But little time to be different. I am after being man which was a dark place for me. I work with many Men and it was just when I started with being a women and it was just the day past and all told to explain my job which is for me easy to do. Men like to say I do not under stand the work and I find to be invisible ! I am not in the mans group and I feel alone ! This is I think for all women to feel ? I am happy to be Female and alone not man with big heads.

Dank

This is going to be interesting to experience when I'm further along in transition, because I will say (shamefully) that I have both mansplained and repeated women's words to make them my own several times in the past. A woman in my office actually pointed out what I was doing many years ago and since then I have tried, though not always succeeded, to avoid this behavior.

I have no idea how I'm gong to react when it happens to me...maybe I should just start womansplaining to men.

probably a male thing. this is what happened to my friends.

I have this one friend, who i speak to  online often and he always asked my advice on cars and engines (since i have fully rebuilt 3 cars and a few engines. like i know how to spin a spanner). Even have local friends and I have the OBDII reader as well.

Anyway a month ago i told them all i am transitioning (been on HRT for 1 year) and got a Good on you, and awesome being the real you. dont really know how to take it, so i took it as it is. Right were was i oh yes, like a couple of weeks ago my car battery just up and died. I already investigated and discovered the automatic belt tensioner needs replacing as the belt has minor slippage. voltage testing while the car is running was a like 12.9volts, even revved and the squeal was noticeable, belt was in great condition.  anyway so i told them about the flat battery, and did he go "well heres what you do.." and began to explain to me step by step on what to do... Gemma started giggling in the background, i just quietly accepted what he said.

I just couldn't believe what i was hearing, did hormones suddenly make me unable to fix cars (which i hate btw, but it saves me money) or something. after thinking about it, i was soo cool with it and he was being helpfull to a female .. lol

Quote from: Veronica A on October 06, 2018, 03:50:22 PM
after thinking about it, i was soo cool with it and he was being helpfull to a female .. lol

Yeah, I'm still early enough in the process that it's validating more than it's annoying. Since transitioning I've also gotten catcalled, and had guys 25+ years older than me leering at me.

I get this feeling of "yay I'm being treated like a woman, aww man, I'm being treated like a woman"

He was reflecting back what you told him?
I've had women take my ideas before too, but the consequence wasn't really important to me. But I just let it go.
I think you know your coworker best though and you're probably right.
I've definitely gotten disrespect from guys who knew me as a "guy" before transitioning or know that I'm trans. It doesn't always happen, but it has...

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You were "mansplained".  Mansplaining is one of those things that qualify for the 'Happy and Unhappy" thread.  The good news is that you were treated as a woman.  The bad news is that you were treated as intellectually inferior.

In the last few years I had ample opportunities to experience this myself, especially at male dominated places. As soon as certain kind of people perceive me as a woman(sometimes even when I'm not trying to look like one) they feel the need to 'help' me because a woman cannot think for herself, cannot do simple tasks and there is no way a woman can be technically adept.

And if you happen to transition from male to female in front of these people they will assume your IQ dropped and forgot everything you knew before because you are a female now. They might think that if you want to become a female you must be crazy anyway and if you are not, the hormones will take care of that.

Of course these are generalizations but unfortunately I've seen too many similar views expressed over the years.
I've seen a lot of good examples as well and I'm seeing more and more of it but it will take time.

Welcome to the club!

Women experience this every day in so many ways. Sometimes we can use it to our advantage but most of the time it is just plain annoying.

I build and manage software development and operations for a living and have been authoring code since I was six, which for the record was 34 years ago. My education is in electrical engineering, software engineering and physics. I have multiple advanced degrees and enough certifications to sink a small ship.

And i regularly say in meetings "Yes, I understand how it works since I hold the patent in that"...

And yet I get java developers explaining to me in detailed ways the BS reasons the thing they are working on is too complex to meet a schedule commitment...

It's a guy thing and you need to figure out how to work with it in your professional career. It sounds like playing dumb will not work for you, so decide how to assert yourself. My tactic is often "I'm not done speaking, let me finish please" and "I am aware of how this works, let's focus on the problem at hand". Kind of bitchy, but gets the point across.

Quote from: Allison S on October 06, 2018, 04:56:23 PM
He was reflecting back what you told him?

My thought too. It's a powerful way to express understanding and improve communication. My wife and I were taught to do exactly this in couples therapy.

I've had people call up for technical assistance and deliver lectures!  A military instructor explained how everyone has some free time in the day that they could use for self improvement.  I explained that I was working full time and juggled that with being the sole full time caregiver for my quadriplegic spouse.  We agreed that my situation was the exception. 

For our organization, it is more important that I "close out" the call than work quickly, so I realized I have the luxury of time that many do not.  Thus, I'll encourage people to get it all before I say what I want to say.  And then end the call quickly, as there is no benefit in repeating myself.  While listening I can "upscale" what I say, as like many of us, I did all the hard stuff and have tons of real life experience. These days, a lot of people don't even have half the time I've been working at my present job.

Quote from: KathyLauren on October 06, 2018, 05:46:27 PM
You were "mansplained".  Mansplaining is one of those things that qualify for the 'Happy and Unhappy" thread.  The good news is that you were treated as a woman.  The bad news is that you were treated as intellectually inferior.

Exactly, put very well, that's precisely what happen, you've been ''mansplained'' welcome to womanhood, with 3 brothers and a husband I get it all time, particularly when it comes to technical stuff, hard to understand my brothers who would have remembered me as a guy from my early years before transition, now seem to think my intelligence has suffered when I transitioned to female, they completely accept and treat me as a woman (which is nice) but I do hate the mansplaining, very condescending.

Quote from: sarahc on October 06, 2018, 02:58:08 PM
I have no idea how I'm gong to react when it happens to me...maybe I should just start womansplaining to men.

They'll just mansplain back how your womansplaining was wrong.

I too work with scientists, male and female. They all think they are smarter than everyone else so are always questioning each other's work. Peer review can get pretty nasty.

Umm...congratulations on passing? I guess?

Mansplaining! There's nothing quite like having your gender validated with patriarchy, is there?