Quote from: sd on March 30, 2008, 06:46:44 PM
Unless you play the game and are good at it, you can forget the typical meeting places like clubs, bars, etc...

Relationships have all been since high school. My meeting places have been synagogue (two or three times), EST seminar, food co-op, college classroom (because I was willing to listen to her complaints and seem interested), and once while answering work-related questions from a one-time colleague after I had switched to another job. Usually a sexual relationship has been initiated and terminated by the Other (all female). One later told me she pursued gay or married men because they were "safe".

My sense of humor works as flirting when applied to a female. I late realized that if I became interested in a female, she was probably already interested in me. I don't think I've been interested that way in anyone since sometime before I got re-married twenty years ago. Our relationship has become more intense since I stated taking finasteride; she says it's because she was hospitalized after a car crash about that time and has needed me more in the months since. And says she chose me because I lacked some offensive (to her) masculine traits.

In weirdness,
Simone

Quote from: Simone Louise on March 31, 2008, 10:01:13 AM
Relationships have all been since high school. My meeting places have been synagogue (two or three times), EST seminar, food co-op, college classroom (because I was willing to listen to her complaints and seem interested), and once while answering work-related questions from a one-time colleague after I had switched to another job. Usually a sexual relationship has been initiated and terminated by the Other (all female). One later told me she pursued gay or married men because they were "safe".

Exactly, in those places women are much less on guard and more open, often more willing to initiate contact themselves. The women I have become friends with (and more) all happened in similar ways as well. They were always in control of things. I can put myself in a position that makes it easy for them, but they have to initiate.

I first started dating girls when I was 10. I have not officially dated any guys, although I have kissed plenty, and had some unofficial relationships. I was sexually active (although didn't actually have sex) when I was 15 or so. I first actually had sex when I was 19 (with the girl that is my wife). Officially I have had 3 declared girlfriends in my life, and one that was a 'relationship' but we were not 'girl-friend and boy-friend' (I dunno, she was weird). Although I have been involved with... lots... I've never really been the type to do stereotypical dates, so it's really hard to define which ones I was actually dating. Perhaps if you say 'mutually emotionally involved' then yeah, we'll go with that definition. Probably upwards of 20. If you drop the 'mutually' part, then probably add on another 20 on both sides.

Now, I'm a heartbreaker. I'm very married, and completely dedicated. However, I am also an extreme flirt. So I tend to break all sorts of hearts, girls and guys.

Quote from: lady amarant on March 31, 2008, 07:42:32 AM
I find this thread oddly compelling and unnervingly familiar.

I wonder if one can be an androgyne TS... 

Or maybe you're like me, Lady A. Most definitely TS but not being a model member of our gender. I'm assuredly a man, no doubt whatsoever about that but really don't fit the mold - I care too much about my looks and know diddly about sports. There are also things about me that are clearly femme - could just be the female upbringing, but I suspect much of it's just natural.

Oh cept' of course my first real long term relationship was at 15 (first long term relationship, not first sexual experience  >) And my love life has been as populated as the night sky with the stars. Literally.  >

Quote from: Nero on April 01, 2008, 02:48:09 PM
And my love life has been as populated as the night sky with the stars. Literally.  >

Hmmm. So you've been with many stars eh? Ever date de Nero?

Yes. Of course that was intentional!

~Simone,
       Taking lame to all-time lows!

I had a few girlfriends in high school; they initiated the relationship in each case.

After school, I had a few opportunities to "hit it" with some of my co-workers, but decided that I was not really interested in that kind of deal. I was waiting for something better.

I've been hit on indirectly a few times and didn't recognize it for what it was until years later 

I've never been the kind of person to hang out in bars and try to score. Even if I were I have no game 

Women always see me as the "nice guy" I am.

Lately something new has been happening as I reach middle age. I have had several married middle aged women hit on me. Since I am also happily married (I initiated that relationship ha!) I just say no.

If women (or guys) are interested in me i'm pretty much oblivious to it.

Quote from: NickSister on March 30, 2008, 07:36:39 PM
I have to admit myself that I am generally unaware of people that like me. It is like a really big blind spot considering I can be very sensitive to moods.

Exactly.  I might be the most oblivious person on the planet.  That or people just don't like me.  But I'm not attractive (well, my face isn't bad, but the rest of me...) and I feel like I come across a little cold/aloof.  I think I'm hard to get close to.  Also, I just don't meet many new people.  And of the ones I do meet, most of them I'm not interested in.  I would be suspicious of anyone who did like me though.  *sigh*  I might be my worst enemy.

If anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old.  Short and simple. 

Quote
I've just had a thought. We have talk about others not being able to read us, or the mildness of our natures, maybe when we like other people they can't tell and they don't get the message. Perhaps in order to be more successful in getting into relationships we need to be more forward.

I suppose initiating a relationship is difficult for most people most of the time and being transgendered just makes it more so, it is not like we are all known for our great self esteem.

That's what I was afraid of.  It's hard to be more forward when you have no confidence. 

Quote from: Jaimey on April 02, 2008, 10:39:21 PM
If anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old.  Short and simple. 

Quote
I've just had a thought. We have talk about others not being able to read us, or the mildness of our natures, maybe when we like other people they can't tell and they don't get the message. Perhaps in order to be more successful in getting into relationships we need to be more forward.

I suppose initiating a relationship is difficult for most people most of the time and being transgendered just makes it more so, it is not like we are all known for our great self esteem.

That's what I was afraid of.  It's hard to be more forward when you have no confidence. 

One time, at the end of a rare date, I asked a girl if I could kiss her.  I don't remember if I kissed her or not.  The next day my friends were laughing at me because she told her sister and I guess you're not supposed to ask. 
    Within a month or so, she was dating a caveman.

Have I said lately, that I hate the norms?


Rebis

This awkwardness is not limited to androgynes. When I tell my wife I love her, she usually responds "I don't understand why." or "That's stupid." But then she's not a stereotypical woman; you don't suppose she's an androgyne, but doesn't know it?

QuoteOne time, at the end of a rare date, I asked a girl if I could kiss her.  I don't remember if I kissed her or not.  The next day my friends were laughing at me because she told her sister and I guess you're not supposed to ask. 
    Within a month or so, she was dating a caveman.

Have I said lately, that I hate the norms?

I don't know, one of my friends went out with a guy once who asked if he could kiss her, and she said she was pleasantly surprised that he was so gentlemanly. She said she asked him why he'd asked in the first place, and he said it was 'cause he didn't want to scare her and have her kiss him back out of shock rather than love (or whatever).

So I think it must have just been that particular girl, Reebs. I swear we're not all giggling girly gits (though I can't very well boast about being the rule for how girls are s'posed to be...).

I myself have never had a relationship (as in 'partner', not as in 'the alternative being that I've been a cave-hermit my entire life') *ever*. And I think one of the biggest parts of it really is the self-confidence thing. I'm *hopeless* at maths, but the idea that no confidence = no partner is (unfortunately) fairly straight-forward, at least from where I'm sitting. I'm hopeless at talking to people in unfamiliar situations 'cause I just *know* that sooner or later I'll make a complete idiot of myself, and I never go to clubs, 'cause I hate them. I just don't see the point in sitting around in a place where the music's so loud you can't hear anyone without shouting in each other's ears, and where, on leaving several hours later, you realize your heart's down by your liver and your lungs have been thump, thump, thumped into having a ménage à trois with your large intestine. Mmm, really not my cup of tea (Earl Grey, one sugar with a bit of milk. In case anyone had the irrepressable desire to know ).

So yeah. The story of my single life thus far.

And what Jaimey said was quite right:

QuoteIf anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old.  Short and simple.

Yep, if anyone's ever liked me in the past, I've never noticed it. Even if they danced naked in front of me waving a sign that said "I LOVE YOU!!!", I'd swear they were dancing for someone else.

Hopeless case, really. Crazy old catwomandom, here I come!

I hated bars and clubs too.

Quote from: Simone Louise on April 03, 2008, 09:02:19 AM
This awkwardness is not limited to androgynes. When I tell my wife I love her, she usually responds "I don't understand why." or "That's stupid." But then she's not a stereotypical woman; you don't suppose she's an androgyne, but doesn't know it?

Just looking around this site it seems almost anyone who is with one of us (Tg in general) or stayed with us after coming out to them do not entirely fit the stereotypical binary, not all, but at least a good percentage. Are they different from a normal binary, or are they really a typical binary and no one realizes it? I think most people in this section of the forum think gender is more of a sliding scale, maybe we tend to attract those a bit further from the ends of the spectrum but still more or less considered a binary. Where does androgyne begin and "binary" start? Or maybe they just simply prefer someone more middle of the road, I would imagine many woman would prefer a guy who is a mix of both. Same goes for some men most likely.

Of course she could be an androgyne and not know, look how long it took many of us to figure it out. Had we not gone looking for explanations we would probably be still be unsure of our place. Maybe she is but not extreme enough to question. It all comes back to what she feels, it would only be a guess on your part. Either way, she seems like a hell of a woman based on what all you have said about her in the past.

Quote from: sd on April 03, 2008, 11:54:36 AM
Just looking around this site it seems almost anyone who is with one of us (Tg in general) or stayed with us after coming out to them do not entirely fit the stereotypical binary, not all, but at least a good percentage. Are they different from a normal binary, or are they really a typical binary and no one realizes it? I think most people in this section of the forum think gender is more of a sliding scale, maybe we tend to attract those a bit further from the ends of the spectrum but still more or less considered a binary. Where does androgyne begin and "binary" start? Or maybe they just simply prefer someone more middle of the road, I would imagine many woman would prefer a guy who is a mix of both. Same goes for some men most likely.

My partner doesn't identify as either androgyne or transgender, however isn't at all typical of hir birth sex. Sie says that being with me has allowed hir to fully be hirself on the gender continuum as well. I see hir as the unique multi-gendered being that sie is, and sie sees me as same. We are extremely fortunate to have found each other! 

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 12:34:13 PM
My partner doesn't identify as either androgyne or transgender, however isn't at all typical of hir birth sex. Sie says that being with me has allowed hir to fully be hirself on the gender continuum as well. I see hir as the unique multi-gendered being that sie is, and sie sees me as same. We are extremely fortunate to have found each other! 

Z

Thank you Z, I have wondered about that for a while.

Quote from: Lutin on April 03, 2008, 09:23:34 AM

I don't know, one of my friends went out with a guy once who asked if he could kiss her, and she said she was pleasantly surprised that he was so gentlemanly. She said she asked him why he'd asked in the first place, and he said it was 'cause he didn't want to scare her and have her kiss him back out of shock rather than love (or whatever).

So I think it must have just been that particular girl, Reebs. I swear we're not all giggling girly gits (though I can't very well boast about being the rule for how girls are s'posed to be...).

I myself have never had a relationship (as in 'partner', not as in 'the alternative being that I've been a cave-hermit my entire life') *ever*. And I think one of the biggest parts of it really is the self-confidence thing. I'm *hopeless* at maths, but the idea that no confidence = no partner is (unfortunately) fairly straight-forward, at least from where I'm sitting. I'm hopeless at talking to people in unfamiliar situations 'cause I just *know* that sooner or later I'll make a complete idiot of myself.

So yeah. The story of my single life thus far.

And what Jaimey said was quite right:

QuoteIf anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old.  Short and simple.

Yep, if anyone's ever liked me in the past, I've never noticed it. Even if they danced naked in front of me waving a sign that said "I LOVE YOU!!!", I'd swear they were dancing for someone else.

Hopeless case, really. Crazy old catwomandom, here I come!

I think I said this before, but we could be twins...

The only time I've ever enjoyed a club was when we had the local goth nights because the music was good (mostly electronica and similar styles) and most of the people were NOT drunk.  You could dance without worrying about unwanted attention.  But that's the only time I've ever enjoyed a club.

QuoteOne time, at the end of a rare date, I asked a girl if I could kiss her.  I don't remember if I kissed her or not.  The next day my friends were laughing at me because she told her sister and I guess you're not supposed to ask. 
    Within a month or so, she was dating a caveman.

Have I said lately, that I hate the norms?

One of my friends had a guy ask if he could hold her hand.  I loved it, but she thought it was weird.  I would ask before I kissed someone.  I don't want to be taken by surprise and I don't want to take anyone else by surprise.

Personally, I think it's sweet to ask.  It's certainly better than having someone just suddenly sticking their tongue down your throat.

For quite a while I thought I was odd compared to other people my age growing up. Like my "drive" was stuck in low gear. Where, they would find at least 9/10 people attractive and want to date them, I simply wasn't even a 1/10 kind of person.

But I wouldn't say it was low or slow maturity...because I think it is okay to have less drive than the average person. Who needs to be average? I'm comfortable with being a 1/10 kind of person now and don't want to change.

Whether the relationships were romantic or platonic I've always had less in numbers, but at least I have had some since my early teen years. Having none would be a real problem. In my elementary and pre-schooling years I kinda had none, that wasn't good. I've actually thought about that a lot, and talked with my boyfriend about not having friends in my very early years. Before elementary school I went from one daycare or preschool to another from birth, basically, so I never stayed at one place long enough to make a connection to another my age. Then I got put in the same elementary school for seven years (K-6). It was a very small school so once I was labeled as the reject it stayed that way. That's the gist of it.

My partner/boyfriend and I were friends our last two years of High School, both of us liked each other a lot but neither of us acted during High School. I was completely oblivious that he liked me...I guess our several minute hugs when I came and left his house weren't hint enough  . A few months after High School he confessed he loved me and it has been great ever since.

I dated in High School, and dating blows imho. I am actually happy in a relationship that transitioned from friendship to something so much more. Five years plus and going strong! Heck, maybe its that I wasn't distracted by my attraction that I have been able to work out something so great with him. I was more concerned with our friendship, having fun, and hanging out than when I dated and was playing a role that I thought I had to play. Roles suck, being yourself with someone rules. And dating seems to be so much about roles, not about people and their thoughts or feelings.

I've never had a girlfriend though I've had lots of female friends who i have loved but they never wanted to be any more than friends.  One girl did come on to me.  she wanted a sex partner i wanted love when I realized this i made clear not interested until she "dumped" me she is the only girl I've kissed and i wish i hadn't.  I feel like I'm not man enough for most girls.  I don't want to be a manly man.  But I don't know how I'll ever find Love especially when My Brain is more female than male and I have a great urge to change my body to show mixed signals I'm not getting rid of the only part of me that has ever been complemented on - my beard.  I'm scared that i'll never find Love would any one ever be able to love a freak like me with my health issues getting out and meating people is very hard aswell 

I think i need a hug

You are still young, and for every kink, fetish, perversion or oddity, there is a person who loves that. It may take a while, but it is not impossible. There women out there who would prefer a person like yourself. 

Kikly, I agree with SD. Your Belle will come and find the You within attractive. My brother-in-law is getting married soon; he is 43. My own brother and my uncle also married late.

My recipe, for what it's worth, is to forget about looking for a lover. Concentrate on being a friend. Find places where you can meet women as two people pursuing common interests. I have taken cooking, weaving, and sewing classes and joined the League of Women Voters, not to meet women but because my interests took me there. I have met women who became interested in me studying anthropology, at EST meetings, in the synagogue, and at work. In each case, I was just following my admiration and fascination with their thoughts and feelings and what they were doing with their lives. I was open to the romantic attachment, but in each case it caught me by surprise. I am no longer open to such attachments, but I still make new friends.

Hugs,
S

Quote from: Kikly on April 18, 2008, 03:07:44 PM
I've never had a girlfriend though I've had lots of female friends who i have loved but they never wanted to be any more than friends.  One girl did come on to me.  she wanted a sex partner i wanted love when I realized this i made clear not interested until she "dumped" me she is the only girl I've kissed and i wish i hadn't.  I feel like I'm not man enough for most girls.  I don't want to be a manly man.  But I don't know how I'll ever find Love especially when My Brain is more female than male and I have a great urge to change my body to show mixed signals I'm not getting rid of the only part of me that has ever been complemented on - my beard.  I'm scared that i'll never find Love would any one ever be able to love a freak like me with my health issues getting out and meating people is very hard aswell 

I think i need a hug

Love is overrated. Avoid it if you can. Just enjoy having no strings.