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Trump Administration Eyes Defining Transgender Out of Existence

Started by Reyes, October 21, 2018, 10:23:22 AM

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Gertrude

Quote from: Dena on October 21, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
How this should play out, Trump has assembled a court that interprets the constitution textually. This means congress can only pass laws that meet the constitutional requirements of Article one, Section 8. Rules and regulations of both the Obama and Trump administration are invalid when applied to the public unless approved by congress. Because the federal government lacks the power, the power belongs to the people or the state if given to the state by the people. Somewhat by default, Birth Certificates are still a power that belongs to the state and not the federal government. How the state defines what goes on the Birth Certificate shouldn't be something the federal government can alter.

This creates a legal mess because if the federal government decides to exceed their powers, what do you do about the many like me who have changed our records in the past? Records will become mismatched and items like Real ID will become impossible because records will not match up. Next complication is intersex people because how do you define them. It's entirely possible that they have been one gender all their life and a genetic test completely redefines their existence.

It would have been better had the Obama administration not started things in motion however now it appears it will need to go to the court and everything that either administration has attempted will be discarded because the federal government has no power in this area. Yes it may be difficult for a while but I can't see how this can stand up in the current court and as the ruling will be sound, how a newer court could overturn it.
Ex post facto. The new law/policy only applies from the point of change forward. That's my take. Basically, if something is made illegal today, if you did it yesterday, you can't be held accountable to the law today.


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SarahM777

Quote from: Devlyn on October 22, 2018, 07:16:32 AM
To expand, the president has limited power. Changing presidents changes little more than the name on the White House stationery. The true power lies with our legislators, and that group looks like someone let the nursing home out for lunch.  :laugh:


Not only that some of them with their expressions look like the cat that swallowed a sour mouse.  :P
Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard.

Be positive in the fact that there is always one person in a worse situation then you.

The Fourth Doctor
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Devlyn

Quote from: SarahM777 on October 22, 2018, 08:27:59 AM

Not only that some of them with their expressions look like the cat that swallowed a sour mouse.  :P

:laugh:  ;D :)
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Gertrude

Quote from: tgchar21 on October 21, 2018, 06:23:31 PM
From what I understand no one would be *forced* to take a DNA test, but rather the only way you could have your legal gender (as far as the federal government is concerned) changed would be to demonstrate that you birth-assigned gender does not match your karyotype (i.e. AFAB but have at least one Y chromosome or AMAB but have no Y chromosome).

If this goes through we might end up with a DOMA-esque scenario where you could legally be one sex under the laws of your state of residence but the other under another state's or the federal government's laws.
And that should be a case for full faith and credit. It's why my drivers license is good in all 50 states as is my marriage. Should be the same with this.


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Gertrude

Quote from: laurenb on October 21, 2018, 07:11:33 PM
I'm nauseous. I read it. And then, I read the comments. You'll see my comment response to "I'm a gay person who's been angered by our community being hijacked by the transgender folks at war with science".... Holy Sh*t folks! I know, I took the bait. But geezuz. A gay person? You got yours and now to f**k with the rest of us. Who do you think they're coming after next, dude?

I'm so tired of this. Here in Massachusetts, of all places, they're trying to roll back our public accommodation rights this November. Really? Like WTF?
I've run into gays that think T shouldn't be part of lgbt because it's not about sex. Maybe we can send them and terfs on vacation somewhere.


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AnneK

QuoteLook at NC. Two words for you: Pat McRory.

My question to you is do you think voting Republican is more important than standing up to this disgraceful administration that supports bigotry?
I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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Devlyn

I've already stated that I support transgender rights. I can do that from the republican side. Truthfully, I don't look to the oldsters in power for guidance. Anyone who chooses to look around can see where we stand, and it's getting better all the time. Focus on the political antics, and you won't see the true picture.

I'm bowing out of this and the site policy discussion.

Hugs, Devlyn
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TonyaW

Quote from: Devlyn on October 22, 2018, 04:57:43 AM
Is the answer silencing a quarter of us? I will, of course fight for the rights of transgender people. That can be done from either side of the political aisle. Transgender does not differentiate between people of one political persuasion or the other. What I don't want to have to fight for is my freedom of speech. It was gained hundreds of years ago, and is the cornerstone of this nation.
No, currently it cannot be fought from both side of the aisle.  As long as the GOP has sold its soul to the evangelicals it will continue to do crap like this to keep them voting.  I believe most Republicans really dont care about this, but so long as a large enough voting faction does, they will pander to them to keep power.  Why time it 3 weeks before an election?

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tgchar21

Quote from: Gertrude on October 22, 2018, 08:30:23 AM
And that should be a case for full faith and credit. It's why my drivers license is good in all 50 states as is my marriage. Should be the same with this.

Actually full faith and credit does not necessarily obligate a state to recognize a status that would be illegal there - using your example of driver's licenses if you're of legal age to drive in State A but not in State B, then B does not have to recognize A's driver's licenses for people too young to drive in B.
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jkredman

Courtney & Devlyn:

Please reconsider your last comments!

You both have valuable opinions that need to be shared.

We're degenerating, among ourselves, to what we dislike about our government.  How can we possibly expect our elected officials to take a higher ground when we can't among ourselves.

On my Facebook profile where it asks about my politics a have conservative to moderately liberal.  I am a proponent of a minimalist government which generally makes me a Republican.  On human rights issues I'm solidly a Democrat.

This is not a Republican or Democrat issue.  This is a discrimination issue where there is a proposal to strip away our existance in the eyes of our government.

Kate




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Kate
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PhoenixGurl2016

I don't get how someone can be trans and put into to place and continue to vote for people who want and are in the process of dehumanizing us. Our top priority should be our safety, protection, and advancement. Everything else comes after that. Tbh the people that don't, feels like a betrayal and is scary at that level naiveness. We are all in this together as right now, most Republicans are enemies to our existence. My own brother continues to vote red and doesn't care about me. I love him but to me, the fact that my own safety is not important, is betrayal. If you are Trans, why would you vote against your own kind. You know?


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DustKitten

@Kate/jkredman, if you're economically conservative and socially liberal, then you're probably a libertarian.

I had hoped that we'd be able to work with our conservative members on this, but their departure will probably make this discussion a lot easier on the rest of us. If they really want to leave, then I can't say I'm sad to see them go.

Personally, I would actually place myself to the left of the Democratic party on most economic and social issues. I grew up in Europe; my political attitudes are fairly typical for the region. That doesn't mean I can't try to compromise and discuss social issues in a civil manner when necessary.
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jkredman

Well that the end of my political leanings comment on my Facebook profile:

"and with the way things are going, I'm about to go Libertarian!". [emoji57]


Anybody know how to start and publicize a petition on Change.org?

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Kate
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Danni98

It's sad to see us arguing over politics, when we need to be coming together and figuring out what we can do to combat this. I myself am a libertarian, but I have several friends who are conservative, who are still upset about this. That's a good thing, because it shows people are more accepting of us then our current president. All I do know is Trump can't stop us from being trans and if it gets worse and they ever decide to come for us I won't sit quietly like in the 40's.
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Nina

Y'all need to move to Canada lol.
Healthcare
Trans rights
Legal weed

2007/8 - name change, tracheal shave, electrolysis, therapy
2008 - full time
2014 - GCS Dr. Brassard; remarried
2018 (January)  - hubby and I moved off-grid
2019 - plan originally was to hike PCT in 2020, but now attempting Appalachian Trail - start date April 3.
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PhoenixGurl2016

Quote from: Nina on October 22, 2018, 10:10:22 AM
Y'all need to move to Canada lol.
Healthcare
Trans rights
Legal weed
As soon as that door opens...


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SadieBlake

Quote from: Devlyn on October 22, 2018, 07:51:33 AM
Sadie, your arguments are as strawman as mine. I was referencing a point in history to highlight the very fact that political parties switch at will to curry votes.... and you know it.

First Dev, please don't tell me what I think. I don't know that and I offered facts and analysis about why the Republican party isn't what you said it is (fiscally responsible). You can call my words anything you like, I disagree. Happily Susan's is a microcosm of American culture that has little to do with my world (I've been appalled at lots of political "discourse" here and I don't hang that in the site, rather that this place is populated by a broad demographic).

I live in a bubble of my own choosing, there's a reason I hardly ever venture out of Cambridge. Last time I did it was to attend a reception for artists showing work at a museum on cape cod. After the reception we went for dinner with friends and outside that establishment I was verbally harassed for only the second time I've been out dressed femme.

Trans and queer people come to the cities I'm our blue states because these are the places where we're far more likely to be treated as human.

People who are blind to orientation, race, gender, class etc hire us. We're privileged and mostly we had to work harder than others to get where we are and we reward our employers with loyalty. That is the capitalist contract without influence peddling or identity politics. We also are part if a continuous brain drain from the red states to blue.

If you choose to participate with those who have been eroding civil constitutional protections for decades, that's your choice. Puhleeze however don't waste your breath on trying to convince me without bringing actual facts to the table.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
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Gertrude

Quote from: tgchar21 on October 22, 2018, 09:26:27 AM
Actually full faith and credit does not necessarily obligate a state to recognize a status that would be illegal there - using your example of driver's licenses if you're of legal age to drive in State A but not in State B, then B does not have to recognize A's driver's licenses for people too young to drive in B.

The illegality would be a question for the courts. There are certain things that are ubiquitous and gender is one that should be. The age of majority could be an argument, but for adults, it's all the same. This isn't settled yet and won't be for awhile.
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Lucca

Well... I'll put this out there; I don't think anyone can vote for someone who doesn't support trans rights and still say that trans rights are important to them. Right now, those are almost all Republicans.

That said, let's not kid ourselves that the Democrats are heroes. They tanked their chances in the last Presidential election with their Clinton worship, they still refuse to disown Bill Clinton for his sexual assault allegations that are least as bad as those against Trump or Kavanaugh, and they only started supporting trans rights when it was politically expedient for them to do so recently. We might have fewer present problems if they had pushed for trans rights decades ago.

So yes, we have to vote for Democrats and the Republicans are a strict no-go. However, we must still criticise the Democrats heavily for their own behavior. They still suck pretty bad, and I refuse to let myself be used by them without giving a piece of my mind first.
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gracefulhat

Today I contacted my district's congesswoman to be and also the current senator to enquire if they would support the trans community. The congresswoman already emailed me back the following:

"Liz Watson

Thanks for reaching out, Jamie. Attempting to define transgender people out of existence is hateful, discriminatory and unjust. We are better than this. I stand with you. I have already spoken out strongly against this move. It cannot and should not be allowed to stand.

Liz"

Please contact your reps asap. The more people put a bug in their ears the more motivation they will have to stand for us.

Here's what our advocates are doing (go to 28:40 for some inspiration):

Above all, love
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