Can I make a request please?

Instead of denigrating each other can we rally around addressing this issue:

Please read this:

https://apnews.com/2ba2749a85fd4db69d4e7ec964c4c9ae


This is what Reuter's published:

https://reut.rs/2yWsulR

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For our existence, for our future, for our lively hood we must vote blue. If we vote 3rd party or not at all, we are throwing our votes away. I will not be scarified because of other issues when my very existence is at sake. #notsorry.


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Ultimately, what it all boils down to is that we all want the same thing - what's best for our nation.  We just have different opinions on how to achieve that.  We don't have to agree with one another on every issue, but we do need to unite as one people.

Quote from: gingerViktorKay on October 22, 2018, 07:30:48 PM
..........science is not taken as fact, and money controls everything.

Please forgive me for taking just this part of your posts out of context, but l think it raises an interesting point.
"Science" is usually understood as conclusions or descriptions of fact, based on objective study or empirical data.
Unfortunately,   as you so astutely point out, "science" is subject to funding. For example, of the 31 studies used to "prove" global warming,  31of them are funded by the US Government ie, the EPA. Every single one of these studies predict catastrophic temperature rise. Unfortunately,  or fortunately that hasn't happened.
Nevertheless climate change MUST be accepted as "established science" or any dissenting is classed as denying.

Quote from: Danielle Kristina on October 22, 2018, 09:51:20 PM
Ultimately, what it all boils down to is that we all want the same thing - what's best for our nation. 

I think that this is a very dangerous attitude!  That would mean, if some political leader declares something to be best for our nation, we have to live with it, no matter if it kills us or not?

As a son of a concentration camp survivor, something like this makes my toe nails curl up!  Hitler was of the opinion that it was best for the German nation if the Jews were eliminated,  because they caused the Germans whatever.    That it was the best for the German nation that pople like my mother would be brought into a concentration camp and later gased to death and burned, some of the victims were not even dead??

What if Trump decides that it is the best for the US nation if people like us are not good for the nation

Yes, as long as it is best for our nation we kill all the  natives, hold slaves and if we don't like those human abnormalities, Transgender and Intergender, etc. creatures, we eliminate them, too.  After all, it is good for the nation!

Quote from: Complete on October 22, 2018, 09:31:38 PM
What most here are railing about is the reversal of an executive order by the previous president. Had he done it right by the will of the people, there would be not problem.

Given republican catering to the religious right, it would never have gotten through teh senate... but even without the Religious Right, remember teh republican opposed EVERYTHING  Obama tried to do, even though he trued to make his initial proposals for legislation a compromise right off the bat ... Even his supt=reme court pic was not a nearly as politically extreme as Trump. Obama started off trying to be bipartisan but the only thing teh Republicans cared about was making him a "one term president" and opposition everything.

Secondly human rights should not be up for a vote. They should not be subject to the tyranny of the majority...

Quote
Sadly, what was once a scientific,  objective conversation has been hi-jacked by political activists who are motivated by identity politics.

As much as we would like to think otherwise, there is no definitive scientist proof of the source of gender identity...

And not all of us can be stealth.

Quote
What many of you are not seeing is that your cause is NOT being exploited not by the Right who could not possibly care less,  but by the Left who has little else to use against a winning policy of economic growth and National Security.

That is simply wrong... Who sponsored Massachusetts Ballot Question 3 to repeal state legal protection for us in the state? I can assure you it was not the left

Economically what he is doing is short term boost (overstimulating - with most of the benefits going to those who don't need them) and a long term disaster financial disaster in the making for the country... ... But republicans only care about such things when the Democrats are in power.

The long term effects on Nation Security are also not good but I don't have time to go into that.

Quote
Sure hope l don't get blasted into oblivion for just stating the obvious. 😲😲😲😲😲😲😞😞😞😞😥

Not exactly obvious since it is HIGHLY debatable.

- Karen

Quote from: Dietlind on October 22, 2018, 10:18:46 PM
I think that this is a very dangerous attitude!  That would mean, if some political leader declares something to be best for our nation, we have to live with it, no matter if it kills us or not?

As a son of a concentration camp survivor, something like this makes my toe nails curl up!  Hitler was of the opinion that it was best for the German nation if the Jews were eliminated,  because they caused the Germans whatever.    That it was the best for the German nation that pople like my mother would be brought into a concentration camp and later gased to death and burned, some of the victims were not even dead??

What if Trump decides that it is the best for the US nation if people like us are not good for the nation

Yes, as long as it is best for our nation we kill all the  natives, hold slaves and if we don't like those human abnormalities, Transgender and Intergender, etc. creatures, we eliminate them, too.  After all, it is good for the nation!

So are you saying I shouldn't vote according to what I think is best?  You are referring to us going along with whatever our political leaders say is best for our nation and that is NOT what I said.  I was saying that we the voters want what is best.  So again, if it is dangerous for me to vote according to what I think is right, then how would you have me vote?

Actually, what is best for America would to elect a Congress, Senate, and President that are like the majority of its citizens. The majority are not extremists. The majority are neither tax and spend, nor are they ultra rich elitists that want to erase us. The majority wouldn't give huge bailouts when banks or corporations fail. The majority are not narrow minded bigots that would strip away civil rights of entire segments of society they consider scum.

Unfortunately, the majority cannot raise enough money to defeat those already in power, and take the extremists out of power. We believe the lies, while hoping they will do as they claim. Ultimately, we get disappointment, because those in power are all liars, and they will do whatever they want. In this case, we have a narcissistic president throwing tantrums at anyone or any group that upsets him.

Quote from: Dietlind on October 22, 2018, 07:28:25 PM
Yes, the democrats are not the holy grale either, but with them at the helm, we have a slight chance that the stupid electoral college system goes by the wayside, and a popular voting system will be established!

Think it over and than think about screwed again!

Lose the electoral college and the minority loses it voice. It becomes a case of mob rule so if somebody decides the red states should become a toxic waste dump, it will. The founding father created the electoral college as a way for the minority to have a voice. If you don't understand this, remember the pledge of allegiance. It says Republic and not Democracy. This is the key to understanding the beauty of the constitution.

Makes me really doubt their Christianity because it goes against everything Jesus Christ taught us. Trump is making Christ like Obama by rolling back or writing executive orders. Like this gem which is only the second greatest commandment. "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

Quote from: jkredman on October 22, 2018, 09:34:19 PM
Can I make a request please?

Instead of denigrating each other can we rally around addressing this issue:

Please read this:

https://apnews.com/2ba2749a85fd4db69d4e7ec964c4c9ae


This is what Reuter's published:

https://reut.rs/2yWsulR

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I feel totally ignored
Kate


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Quote from: Danielle Kristina on October 22, 2018, 10:30:53 PM
So are you saying I shouldn't vote according to what I think is best?  You are referring to us going along with whatever our political leaders say is best for our nation and that is NOT what I said.  I was saying that we the voters want what is best.  So again, if it is dangerous for me to vote according to what I think is right, then how would you have me vote?

I think you misunderstood.
I said we should vote what is best or the people, the people are the nation, and not what political leaders define it to be.
we are the people, yes, we transgender folks are part of the people, and we should vote for leaders who will make sure that we poor little trans have a chance to survive.  The current leader want to deny us this very chance, there for we have to vote for people, who will allow us to live in peace and the little bit of happiness we can find.

That is what I am saying, and it happens that currently the democrats are our best chance to stay alive!
Once we were able to eliminate that terrible system of the electoral college, we might have the chance to find leaders who do us way better than either the dems or the reps.  But for the time we have to vote for the dems!

Quote from: Dena on October 22, 2018, 10:58:29 PM
Lose the electoral college and the minority loses it voice. It becomes a case of mob rule so if somebody decides the red states should become a toxic waste dump, it will. The founding father created the electoral college as a way for the minority to have a voice. If you don't understand this, remember the pledge of allegiance. It says Republic and not Democracy. This is the key to understanding the beauty of the constitution.

ll the other democratic countries in the world seem to do very well without the electoral college.
And no the electoral college was not established to give the minority a vote, the idea behind it as to take the vote away.  because the minority of those day was not able to read or write, and the founding fathers were of the opinion they knew better what was good for the people (they were the 1% of those days, almost all of them were filthy rich) and have the buffer of the electoral college between the voting public and the final decission.

If you want more detailed info, I have to ask a friend of mine who teaches political science at the University of Minnesota

Quote from: jkredman on October 22, 2018, 11:22:30 PM
I feel totally ignored
Kate


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i read your links and they seem to confirm what we are discussing here, that our rights as a minority group of the society are absolutely on the chopping block

Quote from: Dietlind on October 22, 2018, 11:31:38 PM
I think you misunderstood.
I said we should vote what is best or the people, the people are the nation, and not what political leaders define it to be.
we are the people, yes, we transgender folks are part of the people, and we should vote for leaders who will make sure that we poor little trans have a chance to survive.  The current leader want to deny us this very chance, there for we have to vote for people, who will allow us to live in peace and the little bit of happiness we can find.

That is what I am saying, and it happens that currently the democrats are our best chance to stay alive!
Once we were able to eliminate that terrible system of the electoral college, we might have the chance to find leaders who do us way better than either the dems or the reps.  But for the time we have to vote for the dems!

I agree completely that we should vote for what is best for us!  But you misunderstood what I was saying.  I was saying that even though we the people may be on different sides of the political fence, we both want what is best for our nation even if we don't agree on how to achieve it.  I never said anything about what our leaders think is best.  Basically, it's a way to end the debate by agreeing to disagree.  I have a hard time voting for the Dems or the Reps.  I don't like either.  You may disagree with that and if so, then that is your right and I respect that.  My view is that while I fully support trans and LGBT issues as a whole, my vote regardless of which party I vote for is not based on that alone.

Quote from: Danielle Kristina on October 22, 2018, 11:45:51 PM
I agree completely that we should vote for what is best for us!  But you misunderstood what I was saying.  I was saying that even though we the people may be on different sides of the political fence, we both want what is best for our nation even if we don't agree on how to achieve it.  I never said anything about what our leaders think is best.  Basically, it's a way to end the debate by agreeing to disagree.  I have a hard time voting for the Dems or the Reps.  I don't like either.  You may disagree with that and if so, then that is your right and I respect that.  My view is that while I fully support trans and LGBT issues as a whole, my vote regardless of which party I vote for is not based on that alone.

Mine is because my existence and acknowledge mean more to me then most other issues. I'm not sacrificing myself for another issue.


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Quote from: Dena on October 22, 2018, 10:58:29 PM
Lose the electoral college and the minority loses it voice. It becomes a case of mob rule so if somebody decides the red states should become a toxic waste dump, it will. The founding father created the electoral college as a way for the minority to have a voice. If you don't understand this, remember the pledge of allegiance. It says Republic and not Democracy. This is the key to understanding the beauty of the constitution.

I'd rather say the electoral college was chosen as a means to protect the land owners who founded the nation from what they perceived as the mob (I would say population). Their fears came in no small part in response to the French revolution.

The so called wise founders were quite happy with state rules that only allowed voting by white land owners and until the 1830s the president was voted into office by a mere 2-4% of the population. The Senate was chosen by state legislators until 1913 and it wasn't until the 1940s that women were voting in equal numbers to men.

Our constitution makes 3rd parties effectively meaningless, limited to left wing fringe in the case of the green party and manipulation by the likes of Ross Perot and the Koch brothers on the right.

Personally I prefer the constitutional democracies of Europe to the mess that we have.

As for tyranny, the agriculture states form a 30% voting block in the Senate, effectively giving control of an entire legislative body to a group elected by a tiny fraction of the US population and firmly in the pockets of big money / agribusiness. We have agricultural subsidies for a reason and Trump most recently has completely screwed the states that put him in office with trade tarrifs and is is buying back their good will with still more agriculture subsidies.

Quote from: jkredman on October 22, 2018, 09:34:19 PM
Can I make a request please?

Instead of denigrating each other can we rally around addressing this issue:

Please read this:

https://apnews.com/2ba2749a85fd4db69d4e7ec964c4c9ae


This is what Reuter's published:

https://reut.rs/2yWsulR

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

@jkredman

I'm reading it now.

Sonja.

Quote from: Dietlind on October 22, 2018, 11:37:44 PM
ll the other democratic countries in the world seem to do very well without the electoral college.
And no the electoral college was not established to give the minority a vote, the idea behind it as to take the vote away.  because the minority of those day was not able to read or write, and the founding fathers were of the opinion they knew better what was good for the people (they were the 1% of those days, almost all of them were filthy rich) and have the buffer of the electoral college between the voting public and the final decission.

If you want more detailed info, I have to ask a friend of mine who teaches political science at the University of Minnesota

It's a popular myth that people couldn't read. The truth is they may have been better educated than many people are today. Newspapers were commonly circulated with the federalist and anti federalist papers being the subject of many conversations while deciding the vote on the constitution. The founding fathers were very aware that more than one view point exist for any argument and a decision needs to evaluate all view points. There is nothing wrong with the wealth having a say as it's there money the people without money will be spending. The worst possible outcome is when one spends money they didn't earn. The best outcome is when a person spends money they earned as they value the money and don't waste it.

Quote from: jkredman on October 22, 2018, 09:34:19 PM
Can I make a request please?

Instead of denigrating each other can we rally around addressing this issue:

Please read this:

https://apnews.com/2ba2749a85fd4db69d4e7ec964c4c9ae


This is what Reuter's published:

https://reut.rs/2yWsulR

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Trump says transgender policy seeks to 'protect the country', (here is a video of him saying this). The question is from what? Us???