I have noticed that there is presently a huge amount of self analyzing going on for those who have doubts, regrets, and/or fears to do with transitioning.   There are even those who have said that they have "toyed" with the idea of transitioning and I find that in itself a little odd to say the least.  It is interesting that there are many different life situations being discussed that have contributed to those doubts, regrets and fears, and it seems that this is being done  in order to rationalize reasons not to transition.

Personally I believe that if you are a transsexual then you must, and will transition no matter what or die trying.  A transsexual would not doubt this or not transition because of fear, or the the fear of regret.  I believe that to not transition would be a death sentence to a transsexual, as that person would be condemned to live their life of misery.

Steph

I think life is more complicated then your simple statement. What was go for your situation may not apply to other TSs.


I can understand the fear many people have in transitioning. I know within my mind the thought of transitioning and doing something different is very applealling to me even though I still identify myself as a CD and transgendered.

Alice

I can see both sides of this one. On one hand, the thought of living the rest of my life as a woman is definitely appealing, and the thought of living as a man unbearable. But on the other, there is just so much that seems "final". Maybe it is just the people who have said "there's no turning back" which might not be a true statement after all, as has been discussed.

I hate my given first name, but the thought of changing it seems like such a big step. I very much desire the feminizing effects of estrogen, but taking hormones seems like such a big step. I desperately wanted to get rid of all my facial hair, but on my way into the reclining seat at the laser clinic I admit that I thought "do I really want to do this". Well I can take comfort in knowing that of those, the one that I've actually done has left me satisfied with the results. But there's definitely a pressure to question it all, an "are you sure" about the whole process. Because it is a major life event, and those are all big steps. And the one ultimate last step that so many of us take is irreversible.

Lately I've gotten tired of questioning "am I really" all the time. I know what I'm not so this is a chance to explore the other. It's why we have the RLT - to let that do its job is my new outlook and not second guess it beforehand.

Quote from: umop ap!sdn on March 14, 2006, 08:59:59 PM


I hate my given first name, but the thought of changing it seems like such a big step. 

This isn't even a 1000th on an inch toward a step.

Until a date to accomplish something is set and then done, its only a fantasy.

Quote from: Alice on March 14, 2006, 08:39:26 PM
I think life is more complicated then your simple statement. What was go for your situation may not apply to other TSs.


I can understand the fear many people have in transitioning. I know within my mind the thought of transitioning and doing something different is very applealling to me even though I still identify myself as a CD and transgendered.

Alice

Life is very complicated in every sense of the word, and I purposely didn't mention my situation or anyone else's as I believe "it" or anyone else's situation would not prevent transition.  There is no doubt that fear of the unknown is normal and for some it can be paralyzing, but again it would not stop a transsexual from transitioning.  Fears can be managed through information and knowledge.

To transition because one finds it appealing is, to be polite, idiotic.  It is not a fashion statement

Also the current terminology refers to Transgendered as an umbrella term for the trans community (CD, TV, TS, IS etc...)

Steph

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on March 14, 2006, 08:19:44 PM
I have noticed that there is presently a huge amount of self analyzing going on for those who have doubts, regrets, and/or fears to do with transitioning.   There are even those who have said that they have "toyed" with the idea of transitioning and I find that in itself a little odd to say the least.  It is interesting that there are many different life situations being discussed that have contributed to those doubts, regrets and fears, and it seems that this is being done  in order to rationalize reasons not to transition.

Personally I believe that if you are a transsexual then you must, and will transition no matter what or die trying.  A transsexual would not doubt this or not transition because of fear, or the the fear of regret.  I believe that to not transition would be a death sentence to a transsexual, as that person would be condemned to live their life of misery.

Steph

Steph,

I have to agree with you.

Yes, I am one of those who is dealing with a whole host of worries and doubts.  And everyone here has been very kind, supportive and tollerant of these worries.

However, the bottom line is simple.  A transexual must transform the exterior to match the interior.  If this does not happen, the incongruity between body and soul will rip a person apart.

Chaunte

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on March 14, 2006, 09:08:15 PM
Life is very complicated in every sense of the word, and I purposely didn't mention my situation or anyone else's as I believe "it" or anyone else's situation would not prevent transition.  There is no doubt that fear of the unknown is normal and for some it can be paralyzing, but again it would not stop a transsexual from transitioning.  Fears can be managed through information and knowledge.

To transition because one finds it appealing is, to be polite, idiotic.  It is not a fashion statement

Also the current terminology refers to Transgendered as an umbrella term for the trans community (CD, TV, TS, IS etc...)

Steph

Hmm, on reflection maybe I should of said aspect of transitioning are applealing. Still not that good I know. As I have said before in other places I know I will never transition as I have never felt like a lady inside. In fact this weeks sum it up for me as sometimes I feel good to be a guy and then sometimes I wish I was a girl.  As I said before life is complicated.

Alice

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on March 14, 2006, 08:19:44 PM


Personally I believe that if you are a transsexual then you must, and will transition no matter what or die trying.  A transsexual would not doubt this or not transition because of fear, or the the fear of regret.  I believe that to not transition would be a death sentence to a transsexual, as that person would be condemned to live their life of misery.

If a person has no intentions of surgery but is content to present outwardly as a woman then then (my opinion) ts does not apply.  I do make two exceptions to that,  One is for those who for medical reasons cannot have surgery.  The other is for the men and again its for medical reasons.  As most know their bottom surgery is horribly expensive and the results are less than astetically pleasing or functioning.

I cannot accept finances as a reason either.  Sell the toys, go cheap, get a second job even if its part time.  You do what it takes.  I sold everything of value I had, no job, no income, for one reason.  If I didn't have my surgery I had no need of anything.  I was back 2 months, and 2 weeks away from living on the street pushing a shopping cart full of pop cans when I found this job.

Don't ever tell me you can't.  When you say that what I think you are really saying to me is you won't!

Leigh

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on March 14, 2006, 08:19:44 PM
Personally I believe that if you are a transsexual then you must, and will transition no matter what or die trying.  A transsexual would not doubt this or not transition because of fear, or the the fear of regret.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss anyone who questions transitioning as not really being a transsexual.

The catch is we're not being offered the chance to be ordinary genetic women who blend seamlessly into the population. Offer me THAT opportunity, and we have no hesitation, no debate, no questioning.

But no, what I'm offered is a chance at a compromised life as a semi-female created through medical intervention. I might face persecution, beatings, constant ridicule, etc. Would a lifetime of gender dysphoria be worse than that? I honestly don't know. But because the risks are so high, I need to be damn sure I'm going into this as knowingly as possible.

I've often said that I have no doubts about whether I want to be a woman or not. What I doubt is if I would BE a woman or not (as far as society is concerned).

Kate

Quote from: Kate on March 14, 2006, 10:12:09 PM
What I doubt is if I would BE a woman or not (as far as society is concerned).

I think Leigh's point is that society doesn't even factor into this.  Transition is for personal reasons only.  Who cares what society thinks.  As far as I'm concerned, if they don't accept it, then they aren't worth caring about in the first place.

Melissa

Quote from: Kate on March 14, 2006, 10:12:09 PM
I don't think it's fair to dismiss anyone who questions transitioning as not really being a transsexual.

The catch is we're not being offered the chance to be ordinary genetic women who blend seamlessly into the population. Offer me THAT opportunity, and we have no hesitation, no debate, no questioning.

You are offered the same chances as anyone else if you are a transsexual you will transition.  It would seem that you want transition handed to you on a plate.  That's not going to happen you are going to have to take risks and make sacrifices, some of those sacrifices are going to hurt like h*ll but no matter what it will be worth it.

QuoteBut no, what I'm offered is a chance at a compromised life as a semi-female created through medical intervention. I might face persecution, beatings, constant ridicule, etc. Would a lifetime of gender dysphoria be worse than that? I honestly don't know. But because the risks are so high, I need to be damn sure I'm going into this as knowingly as possible.

Who has offered you the chance of a compromised life as a semi-female... It is you who makes your life and no one else, sure you may face  persecution etc... but you could also be hit by a bus tomorrow, it's you who lives your life and no one else.

QuoteI've often said that I have no doubts about whether I want to be a woman or not. What I doubt is if I would BE a woman or not (as far as society is concerned). 

It's not a question of wanting to be a woman, either you are or you aren't, and if you are then you will succeed or die trying.  You should not be concerned with society and what they think otherwise you will be it's prisoner condemned with a life sentence of regrets.

QuoteWould a lifetime of gender dysphoria be worse than that?

- Oh yes, yes, yes

Steph

Quote from: Melissa on March 14, 2006, 10:38:39 PM
I think Leigh's point is that society doesn't even factor into this.  Transition is for personal reasons only.  Who cares what society thinks.  As far as I'm concerned, if they don't accept it, then they aren't worth caring about in the first place.

I understand, and it's certainly a noble sentiment, but I don't think I could live up to it in the worst case scenario.

Imagine if I transitioned, and being 6'2" makes it impossible for me to pass - ever. My days are then spent being constantly perceived as a transsexual, as a man in a dress. Everyone calls me sir, treats me as an eccentric man at best, a pervert enjoying an erotic kick at worst.

What have I gained then? I'm not living the female life I wanted. No one is validating me as being a female. Sure, I might look more feminine, and be happier about my appearance - but only when home alone. In that case, I'm no better off then simply crossdressing in secret. My "femaleness" would be entirely self-contained, a private delusion of my own making.

Can my happiness, my sense of "being female" really exist without that external validation? I honestly don't know. I get the philosophical arguments... but can they survive reality?

Quote from: Leigh on March 14, 2006, 09:04:38 PMThis isn't even a 1000th on an inch toward a step.

I should have been clearer. The thought of changing it to a female name seems like a big step. It's not quick, it's not cheap, and it means I have to inform my boss, my bank, my web host. I'd say in this context it is a big step. 

Umm, okay so I haven't set a date. I still haven't had a chance to talk to my therapist about the best sequence to do all this stuff in. To call it a fantasy implies that I'm deluding myself that it will ever get done... and this just because I don't have a date set? 

Changing a name is a simple legal procedure.

Compared to the rest of transition, it is virtually nothing.

I wonder Steph, if you had lost your job, spouse, home, and was living on the street (first of all you would not be posting in here because you would have no computer, internet service, or electricity, desk, or money for transition,) If you would not be singing a different tune. You make it sound soooo easy and without heavy major consequences. You are an exception. An overwhelming exception to put it mildly. I hope young transsexuals reading your posts don't go on thinking your life is going to be the norm. It isn't I wished it was and I have to admit I'm envious of you. If I had the same securities you have I would be well into transition by now possible doing the right thing or making a mistake.

For those of us that face losing everything, just how do you expect us to be happy about it, knowing the outcome. Yes, some may pass, some may not. With no job, no future, looking and knowing you have to worry about being outed or be outed all the time, just how do you expect us to NOT hesitate. Put yourself in our shoes. Pretend you do not have all of your security that you do now. Pretend you have responsibilities other then your own self that must be met financially and figure out how you are going to do that without any income. Go on some job interviews and let them know what you are and see how many calls you get back. You may get some because you have transitioned. Try doing that before you transition seeking a safe place to transition and see how many call back. Just how do you expect to do it without money?

I fully understand what you are saying. To hell with the fears, society, and everything else. If you are TS you will Transition. But just how far you transition is up to each and everyone of us isnt it? According to some on this forum unless you have GRS/SRS you are not really a TS. Oh really? Prove it. In fact, prove you are TS. I can say just because you have an inny and not an outie doesn't mean you are TS. There are men that have had srs. Are they transexuals? Is the term transsexual only applied to genitalia that nobody can see? They live each day as men but down below they have the genitalia of the opposite sex. To me, Transsexual is more complicated. It is assuming the other gender in full. Looking, talking and living life as a normal natal female/male. It is the full package, not just sexual idenity. It is gender identity.

Since Transsexulism is a SELF DIAGNOSED issue, wouldn't it be prudent to seek advice, help, ideas, parallel lives, and more understanding to make sure you are correct? To know you are right and prove you are right before starting transition is an absolute must. Just because you THINK you are right, doesnt mean you are. If you are wrong or have doubts then the results are disasterous to say the least. There are way to many that have transitioned and regretted it. There are way to many that want to go back, live like hermits, cannot handle it, would do anything to undo a major mistake, or commit suicide. So knowing all that, how else to you expect people that are sure they are Transsexual to know it for fact? Perhaps you can enllighten us how to prove it? We may feel, know, and are pretty certain, but just how do you really know without a shred of doubt that transition would be better?

QuoteIt's not a question of wanting to be a woman, either you are or you aren't, and if you are then you will succeed or die trying.

With all due respect Steph as much as you and I see eye to eye on most things, I think in this case your statement is true for what used to be called "Type VI" transsexuals but does not hold as true for those less afflicted. For those of us who were Type VI, the less serious degrees of affliction can be hard to understand.

Quote from: Northern Jane on March 15, 2006, 08:04:07 AM
With all due respect Steph as much as you and I see eye to eye on most things, I think in this case your statement is true for what used to be called "Type VI" transsexuals but does not hold as true for those less afflicted. For those of us who were Type VI, the less serious degrees of affliction can be hard to understand.

LESS afflicted? In my experience, the "transition or die" transsexuals are merely more dependent upon physicality as defining who they are. These are usually the ones who try to cut off their "disgusting" body parts and so on. More than anything, they just cannot stand being male, and so we get the "transition or die" mandate.

But not every transsexual feels that way. For some of us, being male is only troublesome in that it's a constant reminder that we're not female. I don't particularly LIKE having a penis for example, and it does embarass me when aroused, but I don't feel an irrational compulsion to cut it off. My compulsion, if anything, is to be FEMALE... and therefore the need to rid myself of maleness is an afterthought, a means to an end - but it's not what drives me.

I can certainly understand why those who hate their maleness feel desperate, and would feel compelled to transition at all costs since getting rid of their maleness is the primary goal. There is no alternative in that case other than transitioning with SRS.

But the need to be female is an equally valid motivation, and allows for a bit more flexibility in finding a solution appropriate to the individual. "Transitioning" becomes a more open-ended and involving process, trying to find a way to function as a female as well as BEING one. If I can't function as a woman, if I'm not accepted as one, if I'm the only person in the world who considers myself a female... then what has transitioning accomplished? I'm be right back where I started. Hence the questioning and debate.

I somewhat fit into your description Stephanie. 

It was transition or kill myself.  It got to the point I could not continue with the internal pressures.  I was on the virge of committing suicide when I finally accepted and transitioned.

No, it wasn't easy, hasn't been easy and I did lose several of my best customers.  But, others stayed with me and have been supportive.

I'm alive and living as I always should have and am happier for it.  Not richer, not more friends, but "happier".

Sarah

ps.  Maybe it is just me this week being overly sensitive (had a tense session with my shrink last Thursday), but I feel like there have been attacks on some of the messages lately.  Its probably me but just my feelings right now.

Quote from: LoriI wonder Steph, if you had lost your job, spouse, home, and was living on the street (first of all you would not be posting in here because you would have no computer, internet service, or electricity, desk, or money for transition,) If you would not be singing a different tune. You make it sound soooo easy and without heavy major consequences. You are an exception. An overwhelming exception to put it mildly. I hope young transsexuals reading your posts don't go on thinking your life is going to be the norm. It isn't I wished it was and I have to admit I'm envious of you. If I had the same securities you have I would be well into transition by now possible doing the right thing or making a mistake.

It would seem that you are under the assumption that I was/am blessed with being able to transition in a secure safe environment.  That it was sooooooo easy.  I have no idea where you got that idea.  And I would politely point out that you are in no position to comment on my life.  I had to risk everything.  I don't wine and cry the blues, I just do it.  The only person who is going to look after you in this world  and that you can count on is "You".  When I came out at work I had no idea how they would react, sure they have rules and policies in place but you can't make people like you or work with you, or even go along with you.  There are colleagues who turn their back on me and others who leave the room.  But you know something, to hell with them, those who stand by you are the ones who count.  There have been and still are many parents who have called me at work, and who have called the school board complaining that there is a pervert working with school children and that I should be fired, that they are going to the school trustees to ensure it happens, everyday I worry that "that" phone call will come.  I did my research before hand and I was quite willing to give up my job, and before I came out I had alternate employment set up should things have not turned out as expected, and by the way I'm still looking for alternate employment.  I'm not afraid to work in any environment to ensure my livelihood.

Yes I had an easy time... I almost lost my wife.  It came very close but after many a tear, argument, rants and raves, we are making it through.  We are hanging tough but we still talk about the possibility that we will part.  I've Lost, I repeat Lost the most dearest person in the whole wide world, someone who is so important to me, someone who was closer that anyone else could even think of being, and someone who was my heart and soul... My only daughter, and it breaks my heart to think that I may never see her again.  I've lost two brothers, friends, and most of the veterans I served with and those who are still serving.  Yes I had an easy time...

Money wise...  Yes I'm having an easy time...  I'm loaded with money, yeah right.  Transition has cost our life savings and at 54 I have no time to recoup any of it based on the pittance I get from my present job, but as I said I have plans.

Quote from: LoriFor those of us that face losing everything, just how do you expect us to be happy about it, knowing the outcome. Yes, some may pass, some may not. With no job, no future, looking and knowing you have to worry about being outed or be outed all the time, just how do you expect us to NOT hesitate. Put yourself in our shoes. Pretend you do not have all of your security that you do now. Pretend you have responsibilities other then your own self that must be met financially and figure out how you are going to do that without any income. Go on some job interviews and let them know what you are and see how many calls you get back. You may get some because you have transitioned. Try doing that before you transition seeking a safe place to transition and see how many call back. Just how do you expect to do it without money?

You must really think that I live in a vacuum.   I don't need to pretend, and I certainly don't need to put on your shoes, but to put it simply "Been there, done that, got the Tee Shirt".  You ask "How do I expect you to be happy about it, knowing the outcome", wow I didn't know that crystal balls were that accurate, how can you know the outcome?  Your life is what you make it   The only thing in this life that is for certain is your pending death, and sooner or later it will happen, that is guaranteed and I would say that it was the only thing that you have no control over.

Quote from: But just how far you transition is up to each and everyone of us isnt it? According to some on this forum unless you have GRS/SRS you are not really a TS. Oh really? Prove it. In fact, prove you are TS. I can say just because you have an inny and not an outie doesn't mean you are TS. There are men that have had srs. Are they transexuals? Is the term transsexual only applied to genitalia that nobody can see? They live each day as men but down below they have the genitalia of the opposite sex. To me, Transsexual is more complicated. It is assuming the other gender in full. Looking, talking and living life as a normal natal female/male. It is the full package, not just sexual idenity. It is gender identity.

Why do I have to prove anything I am here living and breathing and to me that's proof enough.  It's all or nothing, if your are a woman then you have no choice but to live as one, full time not part time or when the mood fits, you are not assuming the other gender you are the other gender.  And we all know that GID has nothing to do with sexual identity.  Leigh outlined the exceptions quite well, and I would agree with her that FtM Transsexuals are males in every way.

This afternoon I will be speaking with a group of Medical Residents who have just finished their medical training and who are about to start their psychiatry specialty.  I didn't have to but I think that I/We are too important to let an opportunity like this pass me by.  There are not too many people out there who are willing to help, so it's up to us to make those sacrifices and take the risks in the hope that it will make it easier for me and others.

Life is nothing but a bowl of cherries, sh#t if a young person came up and asked for advice on transition the first thing I would say is are you out of your feakin mind, do you realise the hell that you are getting into, but once the cards are on the table that person must transition or suffer the consequences.

Lori I'll be a little blunt and if it offends then I apologize.  You seem to want guarantees that you are a transsexual however it is only you who knows this and only you who can guarantee it.  It would also seem that before start that you want guarantees that transition will be easy and painless, all comfy and sugar coated, with people telling you "You go Girl".  It ain't goin to happen babe.  It's your life you make it happen, it's time to sh*t or get off the pot.

Steph

Quoteif you had lost your job, spouse, home, and was living on the street

Pretty close to the truth! In the spring of 1974 I left home with one suitcase and a bank draft to cover SRS (plus a couple of months rent on apartment) - nothing more - that's all I had to show for 24 years of life. I had to leave my hometown and all my friends and family behind - nothing, nada, zip! I sacrificed everything and everyone in my life to transition - but the GID was gone and I built a heck of a nice life by working my backside off. Nothing was "handed to me" and nobody cut me any slack.