You can't read people's minds of course, but have you ever...  Thought that people were spending more time than ever looking at you, perhaps confused if you are female or male?  No, you are not paranoid, you just notice this.

I am not talking passing and not passing.  I am not talking about mtf male fail either.  At least, I do not think I am. 

They are not snickering or pointing you out to others.  Some may even wave or say Hi to you, they are not hostile in any way.

What I am trying to say is this.  Say you are mtf and you go out and about, not trying to present as female.   Do you ever think that some people you notice are spending a great deal of time looking at you?  They are not giving you funny looks.  They just look!   I know, this could simply be your imagination, mine included! 

Perhaps this is to be expected if you go out in androgynous or unisex clothing. But you are not wearing makeup, fragrances, or feminine jewelry, or trying to pass.  You are just being you.

Perhaps they just want to to somehow confirm in their minds if you are female or male.

Perhaps it is also one's wishful thinking in operation here.  Maybe you are hoping when they longingly look, that they believe you are of the gender you think or know that you are.   

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on October 26, 2018, 07:16:43 PM
You can't read people's minds of course, but have you ever...  Thought that people were spending more time than ever looking at you, perhaps confused if you are female or male?  No, you are not paranoid, you just notice this.

I am not talking passing and not passing.  I am not talking about mtf male fail either.  At least, I do not think I am. 

They are not snickering or pointing you out to others.  Some may even wave or say Hi to you, they are not hostile in any way.

What I am trying to say is this.  Say you are mtf and you go out and about, not trying to present as female.   Do you ever think that some people you notice are spending a great deal of time looking at you?  They are not giving you funny looks.  They just look!   I know, this could simply be your imagination, mine included! 

Perhaps this is to be expected if you go out in androgynous or unisex clothing. But you are not wearing makeup, fragrances, or feminine jewelry, or trying to pass.  You are just being you.

Perhaps they just want to to somehow confirm in their minds if you are female or male.

Perhaps it is also one's wishful thinking in operation here.  Maybe you are hoping when they longingly look, that they believe you are of the gender you think or know that you are.   

Chrissy

@ChrissyRyan
Dear Chrissy: 
Very interesting thoughts that you expressed.

This sounds like what frequently happens when most mornings I walk over from my office and go into my next door Coffee Shop.   If there is anyone there that does not know me by now, I get hard and long looks, but as things have progressed and from my own experiences with my friends and suitors I am fairly certain that they are not clocking me.   

Also, in a very small town like mine, any new arrival, man or woman, or say if you were to go there with me you would get long and hard looks and more than likely you be someone of "interest"... the townspeople do not see a lot of new people often so you would get checked out.

Hugs,
Danielle

I do get people that stare at me oddly sometimes and generally it don't bother me but I can name a few times that it has they just give me a weird look and it's really bothersome

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Androgyny is a bit unusual, and the unusual attracts attention.  If someone looks obviously femme, strangers will accept that, process it ("woman") and move on.  Similarly if someone looks obviously masculine.  But if your presentation is ambiguous, it takes them a tad longer to process your presentation and classify you.  The less your presentation comes down on one side or the other of the male-female divide, the longer they will take to process you.

I don't get the long looks much, since I make sure my presentation always clearly says femme.  Mostly, strangers ignore me.

Yes, this has happened to me and people I'm with. I look at people sometimes too, though I really try not to. I may take a second quick glance at people who appear trans, andro, or people whose appearance I may like. Most often I look back at people who are looking at me though...

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Yeah, it's happening to me daily when I'm not presenting as female. If not getting a male fail I'm usually getting stares. But even when I'm not presenting as female I'm wearing not too feminine but sometimes visibly women's clothing and I have long hair in ponytail, that's my 'male' presentation nowadays. Because I'm not on HRT yet I have no visible breasts so my looks can mess with people's heads a little. Sometimes it's funny when people can't figure me out but it can lead to strange situations.
Some people even vocalize their doubts loudly about my gender. I usually try to get out of those situations as fast as possible because those people are usually not the types who would appreciate a good discussion about gender and related subjects.

I generally have a bit of my admittedly goofy smile on my face when out in public.

When I do spot someone looking at me, I often respond to a woman by cranking up the smile to '10', and nodding slightly.  I generally get a big smile back in return.  If it is a man, I generally look away, as any engaging look such as a smile is often misinterpreted as an invitation, or if I am clocked, as a threat.

I just remembered when I was the one who stared. I was at a trans* conference and there was this person who looked totally androgynous and also very attractive. Even after years of working with transgender people I just couldn't help myself, I felt this need to find out that person's gender. It was like a great mystery that had to be solved.

Quote from: Lynne on October 27, 2018, 12:33:46 PM
I just remembered when I was the one who stared. I was at a trans* conference and there was this person who looked totally androgynous and also very attractive. Even after years of working with transgender people I just couldn't help myself, I felt this need to find out that person's gender. It was like a great mystery that had to be solved.

Lynne,

Did you find out?

Chrissy

Yes Chrissy. This happens fairly often. Usually in the checkout lines. The ones behind you. Almost as if they were in a trance. You can tell they're deep in thought. I find it amusing sometimes when I catch them staring and they look away. If they don't look away, I give them a big smile and then they smile back.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on October 27, 2018, 01:07:25 PM

Lynne,

Did you find out?

Chrissy

No, I didn't. I could never figure it out myself and it would have been really awkward to ask this question. I mean I believe that gender shouldn't matter at all and felt that asking this question would have been rude.

Quote from: Lynne on October 27, 2018, 06:12:37 PM
No, I didn't. I could never figure it out myself and it would have been really awkward to ask this question. I mean I believe that gender shouldn't matter at all and felt that asking this question would have been rude.

I thought that perhaps you got to talk with the mystery person, saw a nametag for a clue, or so on.  Perhaps the mystery or ambiguity was intentional (for all) by this person of interest.

Chrissy

Quote from: Lynne on October 27, 2018, 06:12:37 PM
No, I didn't. I could never figure it out myself and it would have been really awkward to ask this question. I mean I believe that gender shouldn't matter at all and felt that asking this question would have been rude.

Honestly I went out one evening with group of trans women and I didn't know who I was supposed to meet or anything like I had never seen a new a name that's all I new and I turn around and I'm standing at the mall on a Saturday or I believe it was and there were hundreds of people there and the only transwoman that I was able to spot more specifically like noticeable was not because she look like a guy because she didn't she was extremely tall otherwise I would not have been able to found a group that I were supposed to meet up with and they were sitting right behind me and they didn't pick me out of the crowd either

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Quote from: ChrissyRyan on October 27, 2018, 06:22:48 PM

I thought that perhaps you got to talk with the mystery person, saw a nametag for a clue, or so on.  Perhaps the mystery or ambiguity was intentional (for all) by this person of interest.

Chrissy

After meeting hundreds of trans people I thought I've gotten pretty good at reading gender clues but I was really clueless this time. There weren't any other clues that could help and we haven't talked much and the voice was also andro, but from what I gathered the androgynous presentation was intentional. I have never seen anyone to pull off that perfect balance between genders.

Quote from: Lynne on October 27, 2018, 12:33:46 PM
I just remembered when I was the one who stared. I was at a trans* conference and there was this person who looked totally androgynous and also very attractive. Even after years of working with transgender people I just couldn't help myself, I felt this need to find out that person's gender. It was like a great mystery that had to be solved.

This brings to mind that Saturday Night Live skit with the character, Pat. It was a continuing bit where this androgynous person managed to thwart every effort by the cis people to figure out 'their' gender. They would think they had trapped them into an answer only for 'them' to outsmart them. Julia Sweeney played Pat. At the time, I didn't think much about it. I suspect some might take offense. It is a perfect example of how unsettled the typical binary person gets not knowing someone's gender category.

Quote from: HappyMoni on October 28, 2018, 06:56:24 AM
This brings to mind that Saturday Night Live skit with the character, Pat. It was a continuing bit where this androgynous person managed to thwart every effort by the cis people to figure out 'their' gender. They would think they had trapped them into an answer only for 'them' to outsmart them. Julia Sweeney played Pat. At the time, I didn't think much about it. I suspect some might take offense. It is a perfect example of how unsettled the typical binary person gets not knowing someone's gender category.

That's right!  I remember andgrogynous Pat. 

I do go out almost everyday, most or all of the day, typically dressed androgynously.  However, as I discussed with my therapist, I am becoming more and more often and longer lasting, more feminine in thought and feelings, although remaining both male and female, genderfluid if you will. 

I am just not ready for the longer term actions and commitments of surgeries, hair removal all over, and living all the rest of my days all the time in all aspects as a woman.  Sometimes this makes me feel like an imposter, "Am I really then a woman?"    My therapist is helping me work through this.  I am beginning to reconcile that despite this current unwillingness for these more long term actions and commitments, when I really think I am a woman, I am a woman.  I am not a phony or an imposter.  I am not a crossdresser, I am transgender.  Maybe still genderfluid rather than completely mtf.

Oh my.  I sure talked a lot there.  And I was just replying to say I remember that androgynous Pat character!

Chrissy