Hi,

I've been looking on here for the proper thread to jump in on, but I've had a hard time finding a related topic.  I have identified myself as a gay man for all of my adult life.  I am 44.  I came out as gay at 22.  I have researched and read of many stories of transwomen who have transitioned later in life.  It seems that many of the stories I hear about are of heterosexual men who have transitioned later in life, many within the context of a heterosexual relationship.  My question is, "how is it that I have been so deeply in denial for the past 22 years...well more I guess?"  How have I (an LGBT advocate who is also a professional mental health counselor) been so blind to my own femaleness for all of these years?  Yet, somehow, I avoided learning more about transgender people.  I supported from afar but avoided getting too close as if I was about to touch an open flame.

I have so many questions and fears.  I have burned through 2 long-term relationships with gay men over my lifetime.  Gratefully, I emerged from one of the relationships with my adopted son, who has truly been a large reason why I am probably still alive today.  I am near certain that if I wasn't his parent, I would have decided to end my life by now.  This recent break up with a man has shattered my world and my own perception of myself.  I feel like I am still reeling from the breakup, but I am also being flooded with relief that there may be answers to help explain how I have felt all of these years as I tried to fit myself into some sort of "traditionalish" relationship with gay men complete with a white picket fence and child.  I could go on and on, but I just am asking for help in coming to terms with all of this.  I am still so unsure and still questioning. 

Hearing your stories, I now know I have experienced varying level of body dysphoria over the years.  I have been shaving or trimming my body hair since my 20s.  I have always hated it.  I won't take pictures because when I look at them, I often don't recognize myself, or just feel ugly, even though I know and am told I am not.  Wtf?  I have welcomed female gender roles as a stay at home parent as I raised my son and countless other times in over my lifetime, yet how could I not see that perhaps I actually was a woman.  I clung to my gayness like it was a lifeline.  I have been dealing with debilitating mental health issues over the years.  They have escalated in the last 5 years and contributed to my recent break-up.

Any advice, I feel like I'm rambling.  How can I be sure I am trans?  Do I have another coming out in me?  How do I explain this to my teenager if I do decide to transition...or at least present more feminine?  He has already noticed me growing my nails and shaving (I wore a beard for the last 15 years in an effort to hide my face).  Any advice or encouragement is really appreciated.

Best,

Bill ( well probably Billie...hated when people called me this as a kid because it made me feel more female and I knew that was bad but I'm trying it on for size today)

Quote from: billieco18 on October 22, 2018, 01:50:01 PM
Hi,

I've been looking on here for the proper thread to jump in on, but I've had a hard time finding a related topic.  I have identified myself as a gay man for all of my adult life.  I am 44.  I came out as gay at 22.  I have researched and read of many stories of transwomen who have transitioned later in life.  It seems that many of the stories I hear about are of heterosexual men who have transitioned later in life, many within the context of a heterosexual relationship.  My question is, "how is it that I have been so deeply in denial for the past 22 years...well more I guess?"  How have I (an LGBT advocate who is also a professional mental health counselor) been so blind to my own femaleness for all of these years?  Yet, somehow, I avoided learning more about transgender people.  I supported from afar but avoided getting too close as if I was about to touch an open flame.

I have so many questions and fears.  I have burned through 2 long-term relationships with gay men over my lifetime.  Gratefully, I emerged from one of the relationships with my adopted son, who has truly been a large reason why I am probably still alive today.  I am near certain that if I wasn't his parent, I would have decided to end my life by now.  This recent break up with a man has shattered my world and my own perception of myself.  I feel like I am still reeling from the breakup, but I am also being flooded with relief that there may be answers to help explain how I have felt all of these years as I tried to fit myself into some sort of "traditionalish" relationship with gay men complete with a white picket fence and child.  I could go on and on, but I just am asking for help in coming to terms with all of this.  I am still so unsure and still questioning. 

Hearing your stories, I now know I have experienced varying level of body dysphoria over the years.  I have been shaving or trimming my body hair since my 20s.  I have always hated it.  I won't take pictures because when I look at them, I often don't recognize myself, or just feel ugly, even though I know and am told I am not.  Wtf?  I have welcomed female gender roles as a stay at home parent as I raised my son and countless other times in over my lifetime, yet how could I not see that perhaps I actually was a woman.  I clung to my gayness like it was a lifeline.  I have been dealing with debilitating mental health issues over the years.  They have escalated in the last 5 years and contributed to my recent break-up.

Any advice, I feel like I'm rambling.  How can I be sure I am trans?  Do I have another coming out in me?  How do I explain this to my teenager if I do decide to transition...or at least present more feminine?  He has already noticed me growing my nails and shaving (I wore a beard for the last 15 years in an effort to hide my face).  Any advice or encouragement is really appreciated.

Best,

Bill ( well probably Billie...hated when people called me this as a kid because it made me feel more female and I knew that was bad but I'm trying it on for size today)

Billie,
welcome to the forums.
Okay first just lay down calm down now as far as another coming out you would be surprised at what people are actually capable of mentally now knowing that you're trans I think you kind of already know you thought do you were gay and you obviously like men no issues there but maybe you'd like men in the sense of a woman loves a man. As far as how your teenager will take it he's already accepted the fact that you're gay I do not think this would be an issue at all that is of course assuming that he has accepted that you're gay yes you can still be gay and still be a transgender if you do decide to go for female bottom surgery and everything I haven't quite figured out if you'd like me and if you're gay or if you're straight at that point that question boggles me but let's just say for the sake of argument you are who you are you like me and you have a loving teenager who supports you I think you have all the answers right there the shaving your body that's really not something that only women do swimmers do it at least do it pro wrestlers do it bodybuilders do it so that just because you shave your body does not mean that you're a woman however you taking the role of a housewife you've taken the wrong but woman and you graciously accept it so do I think you're a transgender it is highly possible if you ever need to talk I am here and believe me coming out really not that bad yes I'm 38 and I just started transitioning so age really doesn't matter there are ladies here in their sixties who are transitioning. Sorry I'm not much on correct sentencing but very good at say what I think so if you ever need to talk feel free to p.m. me

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Hi, Billie!

Welcome to Susan's Place.

Take a deep breath.  Relax.  You will be fine.

It is easy to go for years without "getting it" or recognizing signs that, in hindsight, seem obvious.  Don't beat yourself up over it.  Keep looking forward. 

If it's any consolation, I didn't get it until I was 61.  I am transitioning within a heterosexual marriage that is now a same-sex marriage.  It's weird, but stuff happens.

The best thing you can do for yourself right now is to talk to a gender therapist.  You will see that advice a lot on this site, because it is the best advice.  Getting a professional perspective on all this wil help you to decide who you are and what you want to do about it.

Please feel free to stop by the Introductions forum to tell the members about yourself.  Here is some information that we like to share with new members:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	Cautionary Note	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

@billieco18
Dear Bille:
I want to  thank you for recently joining Susan's Place and coming here to share information about yourself in your post.. 
Also, please know that you are always welcome here.  Many of our members will now be aware of your arrival to the Forums and will be able to share with you, and you with them regarding your questions and comments.

I see that you have already been Officially Welcomed to Susan's Place
by our lovely member  @KathyLauren  ...
 
Please also allow me to also give your a warm Welcome to Susan's Place.
I am thinking that you may have a lot more questions and concerns, this is the right place for you to be to find out what others have done that may have been in your circumstances.  Be aware that there are many members here that can identify with your concerns and questions.
 
You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others  and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.  When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here on the Forums if you wish and receive support from others and offer support to others. ....

***It's a very good chance that you might find that you will make some new friends here. 
Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace. 

In her Welcome Message  KathyLauren included Important LINKS that will tell you about Susan's Place.  Included there is information about the site that will help you navigate around and best utilize the features here.   
Please look closely at the LINKS in RED, answers are there to many questions that new members ask.   

Please don't be a stranger, we want to share postings and thoughts with you.

Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.
Danielle

As already said, the first step it to make an appointment to see a gender therapist or in the UK visit the GP and ask to be referred to a Gender Identity Clinic. I think your son will be fine, he has already accepted you as gay, he will be ok if it turns out you are transgender too.

I've always known since I was 2 years old but lacked the courage to stand up to my father and society but as far as I can tell there are no age restrictions to realisation. Whether you are 2 years old, in your 40s, or in your 60s... it makes no difference.

We each have our own past and experiences so you need to explore these with an expert... just be prepared to wait a long time for your first appointment (at least if you live in the UK), so the faster you can get in the system the better... nobody is going to force you to become a woman if you later find that it isn't for you, but it is best to talk and be honest.

So even if you've changed your mind when the time of the appointment approaches, don't back out of the first appointment. Go and talk about your feelings with an expert and it will help confirm your suspicions one way or the other.

In the meanwhile, I keep these forums open all the time in my browser so that I don't feel so alone but if you can meet with some real people who are also suffering from gender dysphoria and are on their way to transition, it will really help with the feeling of being alone with this.

If you want to chat with someone else who has finally plucked up the courage to face who she is... then feel free to pm me.


love
Alice

Hey Billie

First, nice to meet you and welcome You've just came to right place
Second, it's so cool that you advocating and counseling LGBT so long thanks for your efforts. I believe you helped a lot of people.
Third... Well, here how things works. Nobody will tell you if you trans or not. You're the only person who can feel it and say for sure. So you just need to listen to yourself. Go forth, explore your feelings! Probably find therapist who can help you find some questions and get some answers that will give you a hint on main issue. Well, since you counselor by yourself you probably know the drill

Hugs! Another Alice

Hi Billie,

I am 52 and just this year finally come to the realization that I am transgender. I have been married to the most wonderful woman I have ever met for the last 18 years and now have to explain to her that I didn't realize I was transgender when we met and fell in love. I would have fallen in love with her no matter what my orientation was when I met her. She is just the most lovable woman I know. But she never would have married a woman. Life's complicated that way.

Only you will ever be able to say if you are trans or not. It's just something you will feel inside. Getting counseling is absolutely a vital step in the process of discovering your true self. Chances are though, that if you are questioning then you are probably trans. There could be some other life trauma that is leading you to believe that you are trans though, so having a professional help you navigate your journey just makes sense.

As others have stated. If you have a son that is perfectly accepting of you as his gay father then I doubt that he will have a problem finding out that you are actually a straight mother. He will love you regardless of what you express yourself as.

I am happy that you found Susan's and you had the courage to reach out to us for assistance. You will find nothing but love and support here from your fellow sisters. I look forward to knowing you better. I am here for you anytime that you feel the need to PM me. Love and faith.

Gabrielle

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for all of your words of encouragement and your kindness.  Your advice about seeking a gender therapist was very helpful and I have reached out to one of 3 in my area who take my insurance, so hopefully, I will hear something soon.  Another piece of recurring advice I hear is to RELAX!  Haha.  This is great advice and I need to be told it often. 

I finally reached out to a close friend of mine who also works in mental health and she recommended a therapist to me.  It feels great to finally share how I am feeling with you all and to also make it real by talking to a close friend.  She was very supportive.  I know this journey, wherever it leads, is necessary for me right now.  I have to dive deep and explore what I have been suppressing for so long.  However, I have learned from you all that I cannot do it alone.  I so very appreciate everyone on this thread who has shared parts of your precious stories with me.  I hope to get to know you all more.  I am not great about reaching out and this post took a lot today.  I'm exhausted! I'm also doing my best to try to learn how to navigate this sight haha. Any of you please feel free to PM me as well.  I welcome any new friends on this journey!

Thanks again,
Billie

Coming out as gay 22 years ago in the "Will and Grace" era, not too many years before the first "Queer Eye" gave you a community and a safe zone.  Being trans in that era was still very, very dangerous.  So it would not surprise me that you made a compromise with yourself, convinced yourself that you were gay and went on with life.

I've always been attracted to women but growing up just south of West Hollywood and living as a  a man who could not totally suppress his feminine side, I often sought refuge on the edges of the gay community.

I think the acid test is to get a makeover — not drag, but use enough contouring, makeup and wig to be passable in photos, and wear some kind of cute outfit that suits your taste.  Test drive womanhood just once.  Cast aside all assumptions and inhibitions. 

Then the big question:  does seeing a woman in the mirror make you smile?  Does it make your heart sing with happiness?  And do you feel bad about taking off the clothes and makeup and going back to being a guy?

For me, being a guy always felt like doing a job.  One that was fun lots of times and came with perks, but still a job.  Being a woman is being me.  The men's clothes were a work uniform.  The dresses, the skirts, the skinny jeans and shell tops, those are my clothes.  They tell the world who I am.

Just relax.  I made a fighting retreat from manhood because I had so much invested in being a macho tough guy, a bantam rooster.  What finally convinced me was a three day test drive of womanhood in Palm Springs, and an hour of crying when I came home and had to go back to being him.

So try things out, see if they fit.  You will find what you are looking for one way or the other — yourself.

Hugs, Carly

Billie, welcome to Susan's Place!

As others have said, you are the only one who knows if you are transgender. I am 56 and have been married for over 34 years. For some reason my wife stayed by my side even after decades of increasing anger and rage. Reading the stories of others on this site helped me find the missing pieces, which made me realize I was transgender in Dec 2016. My anger was being caused by decades of suppressing my true self. I too would probably not be alive if we did not have children. Transitioning has freed my soul from darkness, and I am happier now than I have ever been. There is no greater joy in life than living it as the person you were meant to be.

As Carly so perfectly stated: "So try things out, see if they fit. You will find what you are looking for one way or the other -- yourself."

Thanks Carly!  What you said really rings true about my decision back then to live as a gay man.  Yes, coming out in the Will and Grace area in New York's east village away from my family was a breeze.  This seems like a little bit steeper of a hill to climb!  I do like your recommendation of the acid test of "trying it out."  I have yet to leave my house as a woman.  I have been buying some clothes and wearing them at home, experimenting with makeup, and basically re-evaluatiing my entire life...haha.  All I know is that I can't wait to get home and get dressed again.  I feel most like me and am starting to actually recognize myself in the mirror.  I guess that is hopeful, right. Anyway, thank for your words of encouragement and keep in touch.

Gosh it's hard to answer back to everyone on here, so if I didn't get you, please know that I hear you and I feel the love.

Sometimes I do think that the hardest path that we take is the path to self-discovery but once you discover yourself the feeling is more than worth the journey

Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk

Hey Billie,

Your story sounds similar to mine. I identified as a gay man for 28 years, and only started taking my gender identity issues seriously when I was 29. I am now 30 and living full time as a woman. I think gender dysphoria is so buried in denial sometimes that it is extremely difficult for us to realize that this is who we are and what we're feeling.

In my case, going to a therapist helped tremendously. I actually went to 2 different therapists because the first one wasn't helpful and I wasn't ready to come out (I was 25 when I first tried). So be patient and find a good therapist! Best of luck.

Hi,

Thank you for replying to Charlie Nicki.  I think you are right that gender issues stay hidden deep within the psyche.  It was like I just could not comprehend that this was an option for me.  Then, after a bitter end to another long relationship, it was like I was hit over the head with a hammer.  I owe it to myself to face this, even if it maybe isn't ideal for my friends and family.  After all, it is my life.  Although, this is easier said than done and I pray to find the courage to be my authentic self. 

That is awesome that you are living full time as a woman now.  Did you go on HRT?  Did you feel a big difference?  I hear a lot of girls talk about their feelings of being on HRT and I'm curious other than physical changes and crying at movies (hehe), what have you heard?  I hope to have your courage sometime and to live full time as a woman.  However, there are a number of personal circumstances that are making it hard for me to do that at this point.  Anyway, rambling a little but thanks for responding!

Billie

Welcome..and you've come to the right place for help, support and advice

Quote from: billieco18 on October 22, 2018, 01:50:01 PM
Do I have another coming out in me? 

I personally think that it's a very short walk across the street from femme gay guy, to transgender.  For the life of me I can't understand why more gay guys don't identify somewhere on the transgender spectrum.

Also, it's a lot easier for us.  After being an openly gay pariah in society for 30 years it was a breeze coming out and being an openly trans pariah in society. 

Hi Billie,

My situation isn't quite like yours. However, I think it's normal not to notice things in yourself that are obvious in hindsight. It happens. I'm 45 and have been blind to much about myself for the past 30 years. I'm just glad I'm starting to recognize it. First steps!

I wonder sometimes if there's an older generation (40s & up) that didn't come out/transition earlier because we didn't have the Internet as a resource. When I was a teen, I felt more feminine than masculine, but not like a woman trapped in a man's body. (Or maybe I did, but I didn't recognize it.) But I was attracted to women, so ... ? I was confused, and self conscious, and didn't know where to go for help, or even information. Parents or school guidance counselors weren't an option. I didn't know anyone who could help a fifteen-year-old in a small town where people talked. So I remained ignorant about a lot of my own issues for a long time. It's only been the past few years that I've been able to easily tap into the sorts of resources that I really needed decades ago, and have been able to make sense of things.

I wish you luck with a therapist, and with your journey!

Michelle

Quote from: MichelleStar on October 29, 2018, 03:13:42 PM
My situation isn't quite like yours. However, I think it's normal not to notice things in yourself that are obvious in hindsight. It happens. I'm 45 and have been blind to much about myself for the past 30 years. I'm just glad I'm starting to recognize it. First steps!

Yes, that is me, except that it took me until I was 61 to "get it".

Quote
I wonder sometimes if there's an older generation (40s & up) that didn't come out/transition earlier because we didn't have the Internet as a resource.

I have been on the Internet for over 20 years, so it wasn't that that held me back.  It was more the lack of social climate where coming out seemed possible.

If I had been a gay guy, it might have been easier.  But I thought that my attraction to women made me "normal".     So I couldn't be trans, right?  Nope, it turns out I am a trans lesbian! 

Quote from: MichelleStar on October 29, 2018, 03:13:42 PM

I wonder sometimes if there's an older generation (40s & up) that didn't come out/transition earlier because we didn't have the Internet as a resource. When I was a teen, I felt more feminine than masculine, but not like a woman trapped in a man's body. (Or maybe I did, but I didn't recognize it.) But I was attracted to women, so ... ? I was confused, and self conscious, and didn't know where to go for help, or even information. Parents or school guidance counselors weren't an option. I didn't know anyone who could help a fifteen-year-old in a small town where people talked. So I remained ignorant about a lot of my own issues for a long time. It's only been the past few years that I've been able to easily tap into the sorts of resources that I really needed decades ago, and have been able to make sense of things.

I could tell you stories about skulking around the book and magazine stores in West Hollywood looking for anything I could find on crossdressing and transgender.  Aside from the usual glossy porn books there were a small number of semi underground magazines that contained real resources.  I came so close to transitioning that time at the very end of the 1980's.  Until I found out that the DSM 3 classified Gender Identity Disorder (what it was called back then) a mental illness.  And getting diagnosed would have put my newly minted law license at risk.  That was one of the big factors for my therapist in making the diagnosis -- that I had made three prior attempts at transitioning during earlier stages in my life, and was thwarted by economics or society on each earlier attempt.