So I've bought my first couple of pants online. Like many women here, I assume, I have narrow hips relative to most women (I'm not yet on HRT). But I ordered pants primarily on waist size, because I didn't want things to be too tight around the waist. So I measure myself and order based primarily on waist size.

I get the pants, and it turns out they are way too loose and baggy. I ordered two pairs of 16s, and honestly I feel like I should have ordered 12s. There's plenty of room at the waist and honestly I need a little more definition at the hips. And if I ordered 12s, it would really match my hip size better.

Am I doing it all wrong? Should I really be ordering based on hip size?

A lot of women's pants have some stretch in the waist, so you can go by hip size.  Something that didn't have any stretch in it might be a problem.  I have toyed with the idea of taking pants in to a tailor and try to have hips taken in.  I don't know enough about sewing to know if that is feasible or would be such a big job as to be too expensive.  I understand the feeling of pants being baggy around the hips.  It is hard to find just the right fit.

Quote from: sarahc on October 11, 2018, 01:31:56 PM
So I've bought my first couple of pants online. Like many women here, I assume, I have narrow hips relative to most women (I'm not yet on HRT). But I ordered pants primarily on waist size, because I didn't want things to be too tight around the waist. So I measure myself and order based primarily on waist size.

I get the pants, and it turns out they are way too loose and baggy. I ordered two pairs of 16s, and honestly I feel like I should have ordered 12s. There's plenty of room at the waist and honestly I need a little more definition at the hips. And if I ordered 12s, it would really match my hip size better.

Am I doing it all wrong? Should I really be ordering based on hip size?

@sarahc
Dear Sarah:
As you are finding out, women's clothing sizing can be not only inconsistent among brands, but also can be a mystery, not only to transgender women but even cis-women can get confused.   I almost never order clothing online unless it is a brand that I am familiar with. 
Might I suggest that in your attempts to find your correct size is to go to a few department stores and try on various items.  If you are not yet comfortable gong into the fitting rooms, there are some stores that have unisex fitting rooms and/or un-staffed fitting room areas so you can find you way to those kinds of places to try on sizes.

My very rough guide that seems to work for women's pant sizes that I give to my trans-women friends is:
28" waist=   size 4 pant
30" waist =  size 6 pant
32" waist=   size 8 pant
34" waist=   size 10 pant
36" waist=   size 12 pant
38" waist=   size 14 pant
***Please understand that there are a lot of variables so actually trying on the clothing is your best move.

I have found that women's pant sizes are especially confusing for the male body because many women have bigger hips and bottoms and therefore a smaller than expected pant size may be required for trans-women. ...  plus the inseam measurement is ambiguous or missing most times.
Anyway that is just my experience that I wanted to share with you.

Good luck out there with your clothes shopping.....  keep us updated if you will.
Hugs and well wishes,
Danielle

Quote from: sarahc on October 11, 2018, 01:31:56 PMI get the pants, and it turns out they are way too loose and baggy

You might like the fit of juniors 13/15. They are cut to fit girls who do not have womanly curves.

That's the trauma of buying things online rather then trying on at the store. Even the differences between brands or where they are made can be confusing.  If you want snug pants, try leggings or skinny jeans.The classic and bootcut tend to be more baggy. There are also places on line that will custom make pants and jeans. Just send your measurements. I bought some xxl blouses but in Asia their idea off xxl and mine are about four sizes off.

When it comes to buying women's pants or shorts, try them on first because few manufacturers strictly adhere to standard sizes. If the designer wanted a loose baggy look for a given size, then there will be a lot of extra material and vice versa for the trim look. You just can't win. Go to a store and try them on or order a few sizes online and return the ones you don't like.

Dani's completely right. While you can fudge it a bit with elastic waist pants, with jeans and most pants there is no real way to be sure without trying it on. Clothing manufacturers do not adhere strictly to standards or even between a single brand's different lines. And, while I can appreciate Alaskan Danielle's effort to come up with a waist size guide, I've got a 32 inch waist and have never managed to fit into a size 8 pant.

My best advice is to either go to the store and try them on or order from one of the online dealers that offer free returns. Here are several good US sellers with free returns, BTW: Asos, Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic, Macy's, Zappo's and Foot Locker. Zappo's and Macy's are my favs so far. Macy's seems to always have a special on either jeans or shipping.

I just ran across this YouTube video where a woman went to five different major mall stores and compared jeans sizes that fit her. She had to adjust to three different sizes and found plenty of size variations even within the same store. In other words, the only real way to fit yourself in jeans to to try them on.

I also found that sizing can vary even within the same store, based on the cut of the jeans. I wish there would be something on the label that says exactly what each is, so you can get the same type later, instead of just on the tag.

In one case, the 13/14's needed a belt while the 11/12's are snug in the thighs. But the latter overall fit better. In another cut, the 13/14 was the best-fitting pair, hands down.

None of them are likely to fit perfectly, so you go with what works best. (And do I have a little bit of vanity in knowing that I can wear a smaller pair than my sister? Maaayyybe.)

Now, someone do something about those absurd "POCKETS"!

At about $60.00 I buy 501® Original Shrink-to-Fit™ Jeans. They are pretty much unisex. It is easy to do. Fill a bathtub full of water, put your pants on, soak in the tub for 30 minutes, and wear until dry.

It doesn't matter if someone were to wear hip pads. They customize. Perfect solution for anyone. Levi pants are a classic and someone can't go wrong.

If you need pockets buy boy/mens jeans. There are now skinny styles for both genders. I just bought a pair of boys Levis 519 that fits great.  Snug fit from waist to ankle! Just like what many women wear these days.  Got it on sale at Kohls so it only cost me $25+tax. 

Maybe the 519 was a little too extreme for most guys, as it appears to have been discontinued in men's sizes.  The material varies with the color.   I bought black stretch version.

Just to close the loop on this thread...here's what I've learned...

For me, pants are generally fitting much better based on hip size rather than waist size. If I go by waist size, I'm around a size 16. But most women's pants have some give in the waist (and some pants have a lot of give!), and I need that because I have narrow hips.

So, I've been buying size 12, which seems to work fine, but I think I could go down to a size 10 and they'd fit even better in the hip and thigh.

Would have never thought I would be a size 10 before starting to transition...

About 30 years ago, sellers in some stores here (S. Korea) used to cut out the new jeans to fit my waist, as I had relatively big hips compared with my waist. Nowadays it is difficult to find those stores.

In the U.S., ladies' size 4 always fit well, but I preferred stretchable jeans. Sometimes I purchased jeans of teen's size 3 or ladies size 2, but they were too tight. A little bit bigger is always better.

Nowadays I seldom wear jeans for some hygienic reason, but a few days ago I tried it. I purchased the jeans in the U.S. about 15 years ago. The size is 4.



barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on October 24, 2018, 02:37:57 PM
I purchased the jeans in the U.S. about 15 years ago. The size is 4.

You're making me reconsider jeans sizing, Barbie. I think I'm close to your size and height, but I've never tried to squeeze into anything smaller than an 8. But those look perfectly good on you.

Quote from: Lyric on October 29, 2018, 09:37:29 AM
You're making me reconsider jeans sizing, Barbie. I think I'm close to your size and height, but I've never tried to squeeze into anything smaller than an 8. But those look perfectly good on you.

Lyric,

There is some difference in women's size between the U.S. and here (S. Korea, Japan, China and other countries here). The U.S. Ladies' size 4 with a standard length always fits so well with my height and body, and it has been always easy to purchase jeans and skirts there. But here, petite sizes are more dominant, and the women's size is very confusing. Sometimes it is like the U.S. size chart, but it is safe to purchase women's skirts of Large or Medium here. Regarding skirts for teens, I even sometimes choose XL, which is comfy to my waist. For jeans and jackets, I usually purchase ladies' L size.

barbie~~