Chloe..that was just plain wrong what you went through..maybe that so called Christian can read what a Minister wrote to me recently and I posted on the Christianity forum


View from a trans-friendly Minister from London
November 02, 2018, 08:47:18 am

Quote
I asked about the usual verses rolled out to claim transgender people are "broken" and need prayed for, but must turn away from their chosen path...

Her reply..

Hi Sarah, The Deuteronomy verses come out of the Jewish scriptures, that form part of the Torah/Law. Some Christians argue that as we are in Christ, we are not subject to the law. Jesus himself appeared to flout certain aspects of the law, particularly laws about healing on the Sabbath etc. Jesus ia also said to have fulfilled the law and the need for the law in becoming the Paschal offering, once and for all sin. Certainly today, many women wear what would traditionally be deemed men's clothing and vice versa in different cultures around the world. The other flip side to that is all of the codes about not eating shellfish, not wearing clothes of mixed fibres etc all of many Christians do, which are all part of the same codes. These verses are often cherry picked without looking at the whole picture. Isaiah talks about eunuchs being brought into the kin-dom of God, which covers the crushed testicles or no penis issue. You alao have to remember that when the scriptures were written, there was no concept of LGBT identity. Your identity came through your perceived gender, based on outside physical appearance only, who your father was and what tribe you belonged to. We now know that one person can have combinations of male and female dna in one body, so what does that mean for usually held positions of what constitutes gender? What woukd ut mean for Biblical writers to have had that knowledge? Jesus talks about eunuchs positively and Philip one of the disciples baptised a eunuch. We believe Christians are welcomed into the family/kin-dom of God via baptism.
In Romans, Paul talks a lot about being pure as Christians, many were getting involved in temple prostitution relating to fertility rites involving other Gods in the various Roman temples and Paul was talking against this. Pauls letter are peoblematic also. It is well known that Romans in particular, has been tampered with and had bits added to it. We also know that out of the 13 letters attributed to him, Paul only actually wrote about half of them but Romans and 1 Corinthians are among those he is believed to have written. The overarching theme is one of not engaging in anything that would separate you from Christ. Our bodies are temples but Jesus himself said if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. This ia why I said these issues are complex and the Bible often does not have clear cut answers to these things but there are positives to be found. I hope this helps at least a little and I am happy to answer anything further,

Wow... This lady coworker has some seriously huge guts... Just wow...
A few things
1) you're not respected
2) things may potentially just get worse for you if your supervisor couldn't squash anything.. Chances are the supervisor isn't on your side either
3) try to find legal help or a lawyer if you plan staying there. Why rely or trust in others? This is a horrible situation to be in and just watch your back

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You may want to keep your phone voice recorder always on while @ work, you can turn the screen off too and it should still work. I sometimes do that while out shopping.

Quote from: Allison S on November 16, 2018, 09:29:25 PM
Wow... This lady coworker has some seriously huge guts... Just wow...
A few things
1) you're not respected
2) things may potentially just get worse for you if your supervisor couldn't squash anything.. Chances are the supervisor isn't on your side either
3) try to find legal help or a lawyer if you plan staying there. Why rely or trust in others? This is a horrible situation to be in and just watch your back

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Yeah i think I'm respected alot less than before it's quite sad I've been here since I was 17 that's 12 years and would struggle to find another job in my industry with my skills...
I dont know what they were talking about but the superviser said that she tryed talking to her
We have a union at work and company just release it's new workplace policy which says zero tolerance on gender discrimination so hoping thatcwillceork in favor

Hi Chloe, what a PITA dealing with people like her.  You've received some good advice regarding HR etc. but one thing to caution on; using your phone to record.  Most companies have something in their P&P that prohibits the use of recording devices to record others/conversations etc. in the workplace.  Sometimes it's no more than using your personal device in the work area during your working hours.  I've seen/been involved in a few well intended "I'm gonna record the awful comments this bad person is making" take a bad left turn for the one doing the recording.   

Chloe,

Wish you didn't have to go through that. It's no fair having a wicked witch harassing you at work. I'm sure you wish she'd pull that broomstick out of her tuchus and fly away on it.

I don't know if this is of any use, but I'd weigh in from the perspective of your manager. Once you submit your claims of harassment to me, I typically have a very scripted pathway to follow. Usually the first thing I have to do is notify HR. Then HR has to log it. Then they have to tell me to do such-and-such. Then I have to do it. Then, etc., then etc., in a very slow-moving and complicated dance that has to respect not only your privacy but the privacy of the harasser. It may very well have been a serious violation of policy for you to have been told that your harasser got a talking-to; I bet your manager really stuck her neck out for you. Remember, management's job is to protect the interests of the company, not yours or the harasser's. Your manager can get fired for violating labor law or HR policy.

On a more personal note, I can't stand it when anyone messes with my team, and I won't stand for it. On the surface of things, my job may be to manage things to the benefit of my company, but my real job is to create an environment where my team can be creative, productive, and professionally fulfilled. If my team ain't happy, Momma isn't happy, and when Momma isn't happy, she takes Corrective Action. She just does it creatively and quietly, and sometimes the wheels of politics grind slow.

Keep the faith. No company really wants to keep anyone around who lowers productivity by making their employees unhappy. It just may take a while.

Quote from: Sarah77 on November 16, 2018, 10:50:26 AM
Chloe..that was just plain wrong what you went through..maybe that so called Christian can read what a Minister wrote to me recently and I posted on the Christianity forum


View from a trans-friendly Minister from London
November 02, 2018, 08:47:18 am

Quote
I asked about the usual verses rolled out to claim transgender people are "broken" and need prayed for, but must turn away from their chosen path...

Her reply..

Hi Sarah, The Deuteronomy verses come out of the Jewish scriptures, that form part of the Torah/Law. Some Christians argue that as we are in Christ, we are not subject to the law. Jesus himself appeared to flout certain aspects of the law, particularly laws about healing on the Sabbath etc. Jesus ia also said to have fulfilled the law and the need for the law in becoming the Paschal offering, once and for all sin. Certainly today, many women wear what would traditionally be deemed men's clothing and vice versa in different cultures around the world. The other flip side to that is all of the codes about not eating shellfish, not wearing clothes of mixed fibres etc all of many Christians do, which are all part of the same codes. These verses are often cherry picked without looking at the whole picture. Isaiah talks about eunuchs being brought into the kin-dom of God, which covers the crushed testicles or no penis issue. You alao have to remember that when the scriptures were written, there was no concept of LGBT identity. Your identity came through your perceived gender, based on outside physical appearance only, who your father was and what tribe you belonged to. We now know that one person can have combinations of male and female dna in one body, so what does that mean for usually held positions of what constitutes gender? What woukd ut mean for Biblical writers to have had that knowledge? Jesus talks about eunuchs positively and Philip one of the disciples baptised a eunuch. We believe Christians are welcomed into the family/kin-dom of God via baptism.
In Romans, Paul talks a lot about being pure as Christians, many were getting involved in temple prostitution relating to fertility rites involving other Gods in the various Roman temples and Paul was talking against this. Pauls letter are peoblematic also. It is well known that Romans in particular, has been tampered with and had bits added to it. We also know that out of the 13 letters attributed to him, Paul only actually wrote about half of them but Romans and 1 Corinthians are among those he is believed to have written. The overarching theme is one of not engaging in anything that would separate you from Christ. Our bodies are temples but Jesus himself said if your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. This ia why I said these issues are complex and the Bible often does not have clear cut answers to these things but there are positives to be found. I hope this helps at least a little and I am happy to answer anything further,

Further, the ancient Jews had 6 gender categories, not 2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I could never know as I don't know the woman in question, but she probably got a good talking to and was really, really pissed off, so that is why I would take a wild guess at why she came at you again after she met with management.

In my opinion, don't try to come back at her with bible versus in defense, unless you are a scholar of the bible. You will never "win" against her, she will always be right (in her eyes) so I'd say don't' waste your time. Don't turn to hate as a way to defend, it is not good for the soul.

Although you said you have reported, even if you don't report other situations, you really have to at least write down exactly what was said by whom and when. Save it up. Even better if you can get it on your cell phone.

This must be very difficult for you. I'm just starting, and this is the kind of situation I fear. I hope everything is and goes okay for you! If you trust management and HR and they say they support you, then be sure to keep them as your allies. I'm so sorry you have to deal with hateful people. Try to stay positive in any way that you can.

Best,
Anita

Quote from: Anita43 on November 20, 2018, 09:22:24 PM

Although you said you have reported, even if you don't report other situations, you really have to at least write down exactly what was said by whom and when. Save it up. Even better if you can get it on your cell phone....If you trust management and HR and they say they support you, then be sure to keep them as your allies. I'm so sorry you have to deal with hateful people. Try to stay positive in any way that you can.

These are great points. Write everything down. Document everything. People, places, times.

In addition, I would encourage you to take notes in your meetings with HR and your managers and to read your notes back to them at the end of the meetings to make sure you've understood what has been discussed, what next steps will be, who is responsible for doing what, and when it has to be done. Make sure you know exactly what you have to do, follow it to the letter, and get written acknowledgement when you've done it.

In all dealings with HR, I always follow up with an email to all attendees after every meeting repeating my notes verbatim, and I print two copies, one for my files onsite and one for my files at home. I don't want to give anyone the chance to claim they "didn't hear that/didn't understand that/don't remember that."

Remember, HR isn't actually on your side. It's on the side of the company. In an ideal world, HR should want to be fair, to comply with all local laws as well as its own HR policies, and to resolve situations like this amicably and peacefully. In the real world, it's good to get everything in writing.