Hi! I'm now 40, and not sure if I'm male or female!

In any event, I was out and about today, noticing women who I was strongly drawn to admire. Yes, I was attracted to them, as I am attracted to women. In particular, traditionally feminine women. But I felt a certain inclination to BE them, as well.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, am I simply drawn to beauty, and want to embody it, regardless of gender, or am I actually trans AF, and I just want to be a pretty girl?

I should mention that I sometimes see young girls with pretty little boots and skirts, and I feel a certain longing ... Like I wish I'd had that experience. (These feelings are never sexual. I do not think about children that way, thank you very much!)

I've mentioned this in other posts, but I never felt like a girl when I was a kid. But now I do. Just before, and now at 40. Yes, I liked to wear my sister's dresses as a teen, and maybe that is telling.

I'm just wondering, for trans girls who like girls, how do I differentiate between attracted TO, and wanting to BE?

Thanks, in advance, for approaching this without judgement. <3

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I agree that it is hard to tease those two things apart.  If it is any help, you sound a lot like I did, and I am trans.

The fact that your longing is not sexual is telling.  So is the fact that you used to cross dress as a kid.

But to really sort it out, you should be talking to a gender therapist.  They will help you look for other clues, and help you to interpret them.

Thank you, Kathy! And I am talking to a therapist, currently, who works with gender issues. I'm just trying to put my experience in perspective with other experiences.

I would love it if I could just squarely say that I'm trans, and move forward. I second guess a lot. Especially due to the fact that I never really felt female until my adult life. That shouldn't matter, I know.

Thank you so much for you perspective. [emoji3531]

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Hi Madison_b, I'm very much the same as you in that I'm also very attracted to feminine women and the idea of being a very feminine woman, embodying everything that goes with it.
I also wish that I'd had the chance to have grown up as a girly girl.
I tried to live vicariously through my own two beautiful daughters but their mother(s) have decided to take them away from me entirely for purposes they will not explain. I can only surmise that it is purely to hurt me, and they've succeeded in that to some degree. I would never have done the same to them, but I am a far more compassionate woman than either of them. They can't handle me being more of a woman where it counts than they are.

I adore femininity in all her aspects and I truly believe that had I been born cis female that I would still be just as loving of women.
As far as men go, well, I do like being penetrated by them and the sexual power that comes with being attractive to them but not any of the aggressiveness or their disgusting misogynistic attitudes and callous treatment of women. They are so very foreign to me in that way.

I don't feel there is any conflict between my attraction to women and my desire to be one as well, except perhaps for the fact that I know that I can only ever be a feminised male and wholeheartedly wish I was born female. That said, my girlfriend's think I'm the best of both worlds and love having me in their lives too, which wouldn't be the case if I were cis female at all.
There's consolation to be had in that.

Happy New year!
Chaerlie. Xx

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Oh, Chaerlie! I'm certain that your daughters do not want to hurt you! How old are they, honey?

I'm in a relationship of five years with a straight woman who would end if with me if I was to determine that I beyond the shadow of a doubt, female. I have not yet done so. I also have a daughter, and a son. I love them both, so, so much. My daughter is not a girly girl, and I'm not sure that, at 11, she'd understand where I'm at. Maybe she'd surprise me. My son is a very sensitive 13-year-old boy who, were he to walk downstairs right now (I've decided to present female, now that they've gone to bed, and my partner is at work.) he'd be confused, but he'd come around.

The mother of your daughters may be hurt because she thought you were a man, but you're a woman. My partner feels similarly, but holds some hope that I'm a man. So do I, in that it would be easier, for sure.

Your daughters are only clinging to what their mother says. (Don't we all?!)

As men go, I don't feel that all are disgusting or misogynistic or callous. Hell, I might be one of them, and I hope to God I'm none of those things.

I sincerely hope you can be with your daughters again. It's heartbreaking to think otherwise.

Sweetheart, you've been hurt, badly, but please open you heart to the fact that this is hard for everyone, and that you need to let your ex- know that this is real and true for you to see your daughters. My heart hurts for you, love.

XOXO,
Maddie

Moving forward ... here I sit, in stockings, a skirt, makeup, a bra, and a wig (I'm mostly bald.). This is not what I routinely do. Well, I should qualify that my partner is only recently working nights, so there you are. When the cat is away ...

Looking down at my legs and my skirt, I feel a certain ease come over me. Feel the hair fall over the sides of my face, the same. I know these things are female only because society says so, but these are things that are ONLY for women, by and large, as is the bra, that feels therapeutic around my chest.

Look, if I was reading all of this, I'd say, "Girl, you live the way you know you should ... rock those stockings and DANCE!" Being me? I know that my girlfriend is coming home in a few hours. I know I'll have my makeup wiped up by then. I know she'd leave me if I was to embrace that I am female.

But is it really that I AM female, or a man with preferences that exceed the boundaries of what we're told is right? DAMNIT, I like the feel of my feet with my hand in these stockings, but what if it's all a fantasy?

The reality of this is not lost of me. I'm writing this, knowing what you'll think, and I understand. I'm in denial, right?

And perhaps it is. Perhaps I'm in denial of the fact that I am a woman. Or, perhaps, I'm running from something, as I always do when confronted with danger, and I'm running to a safe place of changing everything in my life (smh). That is entirely possible.

Please, if you have had similar feelings, tell me about them.

I'm 44 and mtf bi. For me its one in the same. I like having a feminine body, and I also appreciate  a beautiful woman (bit more than a handsome man). So Its pretty simple. Your gender identity has nothing to do with your sexual preference. Time helps a bit in that you become comfortable in your body and its no longer an issue. I'm rather lucky that my girl friend is strongly drawn to the fact I'm neither one gender or the other so its no issue for her either.

Thanks, hon. [emoji8]

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I can't remember that I ever had the desire to be a girl, I always wanted to be a guy, but because of my biology, I was always more girl than guy, and I never could achieve the guy roll fully.  Later in my life, the girl inside me wanted to come out finally, and I am a woman now.
Age has nothing to do with being trans, some make this discovery earlier, others do it later!

I wish you good luck on your path to become a woman!  I like it, it set's me finally free!  I do not have to pretend to be somebody who I never was!

That sounds WONDERFUL. Thanks, love!

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Quote from: madison_b on December 30, 2018, 09:33:18 PM
DAMNIT, I like the feel of my feet with my hand in these stockings, but what if it's all a fantasy?

The reality of this is not lost of me. I'm writing this, knowing what you'll think, and I understand. I'm in denial, right?

...

Please, if you have had similar feelings, tell me about them.

Madison, it is not a fantasy.  You really DO like the stockings!

I am not being flippant.  When the doubt monster strikes, you have to hold onto what you know is real.  And what is real is that you do like these things.  What is real is that you do wish you were a woman.  What is real is that these feelings will not go away.

I lived with the doubt monster for 30 years, from my first thought of maybe being trans, in my 30s, until I decided to do something about it, in my early 60s.  I spent that long with the monster because I didn't look clearly at what was real and what was not.

What was real for me was that I wished I was a woman.  I liked to dress as a woman, and that was not a sexual fetish.  What was real was that I had always, as far back as I could remember, been drawn to being feminine, to feminine interests and feminine styles, not as someone I wanted to be with, but as someone that I wanted to be.  What was real was that these feelings were clearly not going to go away; if anything they were getting stronger.  What was real was that resisting them was making me miserable and angry.  And what was real was that I internalize my anger, rather than expressing it outwardly, so my anger would eventually lead to my demise.

All these things I could see clearly, regardless of whether I was trans or not.  And together, they painted a clear picture that (a) I was almost certainly trans, and (b) I needed to do something about it.  Note that none of these things depended on resolving the question "Am I a woman?"  These were all things that I could see regardless of the answer to that question.

Granted I took 30 years to come to this conclusion.  It is pretty easy when you take that much time.  I don't recommend that you follow my path.  But hopefully, you can see my thought process through it, and maybe that will help you.

I still have a hard time answering the question "Am I a woman?"  Because honestly no one feels like a man or a woman, because no one has anything to compare their feelings to.  I know intellectually that I am a woman, but it doesn't feel like anything.  Everyone just feels like themselves.  I don't really feel any different than I did before.  I still feel like me, only happier. 

Wow, thank you so much, Kathy. I'm going to be revisiting your words again and again. Especially that last paragraph. I truly appreciate the time and care you put into sharing with me. [emoji3531]

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Quote from: madison_b on December 30, 2018, 07:29:00 PM
Hi! I'm now 40, and not sure if I'm male or female!

In any event, I was out and about today, noticing women who I was strongly drawn to admire. Yes, I was attracted to them, as I am attracted to women. In particular, traditionally feminine women. But I felt a certain inclination to BE them, as well.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, am I simply drawn to beauty, and want to embody it, regardless of gender, or am I actually trans AF, and I just want to be a pretty girl?

I should mention that I sometimes see young girls with pretty little boots and skirts, and I feel a certain longing ... Like I wish I'd had that experience. (These feelings are never sexual. I do not think about children that way, thank you very much!)

I've mentioned this in other posts, but I never felt like a girl when I was a kid. But now I do. Just before, and now at 40. Yes, I liked to wear my sister's dresses as a teen, and maybe that is telling.

I'm just wondering, for trans girls who like girls, how do I differentiate between attracted TO, and wanting to BE?

Thanks, in advance, for approaching this without judgement. <3

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Hello Madison

First of all let me say that I agree wholeheartedly with 2 earlier respondees:

Kathy who states it is hard to tease apart the attraction to women and the desire to be a woman; indeed for many of us they be connected and

Kelly who states that Gender identity and Sexual Orientation are two separate subjects which the medical profession now reiterates aswell.

Purely by coincidence I have made a comment on another thread which I had initiated on this Board "For Asexual or Mainly Asexual Transgender Members" about there not necessarily being a "competition" but instead a "unison" between your two mentioned thoughts and I copy below.

"I am inclined to believe that not only is there a "competition" going on in our minds between our trans status and the hope (especially when we are young) of finding the perfect attractive romantic female partner but also an element of the two being "in unison" in that we may to a large degree find "the one" as perfect attractive and romantic as really our main objective is to be like her (but as that is impossible, we pursue and perhaps end up in a sexual relationship which we may enjoy or which we may be indifferent to)."

I initiated the other thread to determine a possible connection between being transgender and being mainly asexual but just in December so many interesting aspects have been added to the discussion thanks to so many respondees. You may wish to read the long thread or just read comments in December.

Finally I confirm that if you are likely or definitely trans, these feelings never go away but must be explored. I "knew" I was trans and told my grandmother aged 4 and crossdressed and bodyshaved all my adult life but buried and suppressed till it became so dominant. In 2017 I sought therapy aged 62 and now I am 11 months HRT and will publicly transition in 2019.

I wish you every success in finding your true self but suspect you are almost certainly trans, followed by happiness.

Hugs

Pamela

Thank you for the support and wisdom, Pamela! I'll be sure to read the rest of the thread!

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Interesting topic, which has also been part of my experience to some extent. Thanks for the thoughtful replies :-) I think I have mostly got over this issue now though, but it's useful to read people's thoughts on it. When I was a teen/young adult I did want to find a feminine woman to have a perfect romantic fusional relationship with, but never did. I also always liked being feminine myself. I wonder if that thing of looking for the perfect romantic happiness with a woman was partly a cultural thing though, ie. what society/films etc. are telling you you should be looking for.

I do like women's company though, and being close to them. Sexually, I am attracted to feminine women sometimes, but don't want to act 'like a man' with them and am not bothered much about penetrative sex. I used to sometimes feel I wanted it, but think it was maybe partly a hormonal thing haven't really for years and never fantasize about it. If I fantasize I think of myself as a woman with a man. But my attempts to find the right person never worked anyway, as women I liked wanted to be friends and I never tried with men as I don't want to be treated as a gay/bi man and don't pass as female. Anyway, my conclusion is I should get on with my transition, and I may end up as a bi woman, or might be a mostly straight one and enjoy expressing femininity myself (which I suppress a bit in my day to day role at the moment as otherwise I would seem 'too feminine' for a man, which most people take me as being), and in my friendships with women (I only really have one male friend and he's bi and a bit androgynous  I don't have anything against men, just don't seem to connect as well with them  ).

Quote from: KathyLauren on December 31, 2018, 07:55:22 AM
I still have a hard time answering the question "Am I a woman?"  Because honestly no one feels like a man or a woman, because no one has anything to compare their feelings to.  I know intellectually that I am a woman, but it doesn't feel like anything.  Everyone just feels like themselves.  I don't really feel any different than I did before.  I still feel like me, only happier. 

Wow Kathy,
I think that is probably one of the best insights to what is the hardest thing to reconcile "am I a woman?", because as you say I just feel like myself and I don't have anything else to compare it to, when I dress in female cloths I still feel like me, just more at ease and possibly happier.

And Madison,
I also like the feeling of wearing stockings, but to be honest I also feel comfortable in anything that is not male clothing and I am just as happy wearing women's jeans and nice top as anything traditionally seen as feminine.

As far as the attracted TO and want to BE, I have always been attracted to women who are not traditionally feminine or girly and when I see traditionally feminine women I tend to be far more interested in what it is that gives them that feminine look and whether I can have, or emulate, that quality. So for me I think that sometimes, in my head, I have tried be the feminine woman in a relationship and see my girlfriends as a "boyfriend", not that I ever expressed it like this when I was younger, this is really me now rationalising what was going on. I did also have a number of relationships where I really just wanted to be friends, I suppose have a girl who was my BFF, but as you may imagine this never really ended well.

But I also know what you mean when you say that get a sense of longing for a childhood you never had, I do remember, as a child, explaining to my mother how unfair it was that girls could were dresses and trousers but boys could only wear trousers, but then saying no when she asked me if I wanted to wear a dress - because of guilt. The guilt, however, didn't stop me secretly trying on her things when I was alone.

But I also have doubts, I am not out, and while I know what makes me happy in myself, I have doubts because I can't easily answer that question am I a woman? I doubt that I would make a very good woman and fear being branded as just a "man in a dress".  I also know what might make me happier would probably make my family very unhappy, I have a wife and two sons, so I also feel that any public expression would be a very selfish act.

I hope this makes some kind of sense and sorry for rambling on.

Love,

Izzy

Thank you for your openness, Liv and Izzy. I have a similar family situation, Izzy. I'm in a relationship with a woman ... Five years now. We each have two kids from previous relationships. I know she wouldn't stay with me if I embraced being a woman completely; she had said as much. I love her a lot, and she loves me.

What Kathy said about being female, or not, really impacted me. Of course, it makes sense, as we don't have a point of comparison. We know what makes us feel happy and comfortable. Thankfully, I've got a great therapist I'm working with. (I do, however, wish there was a blood test or something to detect transness!)

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Quote from: madison_b on December 31, 2018, 11:05:09 AM
Thank you for your openness, Liv and Izzy. I have a similar family situation, Izzy. I'm in a relationship with a woman ... Five years now. We each have two kids from previous relationships. I know she wouldn't stay with me if I embraced being a woman completely; she had said as much. I love her a lot, and she loves me.

What Kathy said about being female, or not, really impacted me. Of course, it makes sense, as we don't have a point of comparison. We know what makes us feel happy and comfortable. Thankfully, I've got a great therapist I'm working with. (I do, however, wish there was a blood test or something to detect transness!)

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They can do certain versions of brain scans to detect transgender orientation in the brain.  But you might have to go to a research university for this.

Quote from: Dietlind on December 31, 2018, 11:12:16 AM
They can do certain versions of brain scans to detect transgender orientation in the brain.  But you might have to go to a research university for this.

I've read about that! Is that technology available outside of studies? I mean, ultimately, we should simply do what makes us happy, but I wouldn't say no to scientific proof that I'm a woman. It would take away some of the guilt of disrupting other people's lives.

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Quote from: madison_b on December 31, 2018, 11:14:46 AM
I've read about that! Is that technology available outside of studies? I mean, ultimately, we should simply do what makes us happy, but I wouldn't say no to scientific proof that I'm a woman. It would take away some of the guilt of disrupting other people's lives.

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You would have to check with your nearest research university which is doing neurological stuff in their medical department.  They might want to accept you as a test subject (like I am doing for the global genome study and the national lung screening study)