Hi there. I haven't posed much lately. A while back I said I was starting a MTF transition, and then I got to the point where I was going to start with hormones but then got worried about a few things, such as possible side effects (especially as in France there have been concerns about Androcur supposedly causing benign brain growths in too many people and I was supposed to be taking that) and I was also stressed out about some situations in my life, and I went back to thinking maybe I can manage just considering myself genderfluid/nonbinary, and eg. carrying on with some facial laser so I can look feminine a bit more easily if I want to sometimes. But I don't think that's going to be enough for me and I think this year I will finally get on with it.

Basically I always identified more female than male and I do also have some physical dysphoria, but have just have had phases as to how much I think I identify as a woman and how much I need to transition etc.

My post though is really about the fact that once in a while (call it genderfluidity maybe) I sometimes have times when I feel more masculine than at others and occasionally almost like a kind of feminine man rather than an androgyne or a woman, but one thing is that I don't like feeling like this when it happens (which isn't very often) and don't feel like I want to be a man or considered by others as a man. I am happiest when I feel feminine and vice versa.

But I wonder sometimes why do I seem nonetheless to have to some extent a 'masculine side' and sometimes a bit of a struggle going on in my head between more masculine and feminine tendencies. And I think perhaps it's useful to think of it like this:

-- even cis women might have what they consider a 'masculine side' to themselves and Jung even gave it a name: the animus (in men the anima is their more feminine side).

---I've had decades of being socialised as male, so that has its effects, especially as I've not counter-acted it by living full time as a woman and having that socialisation instead

---and maybe also if I go onto estrogens and anti-androgens that will also help resolve some conflicts in my feelings so I feel more solidly established in my femininity, and with improvements to my appearance and ability to express myself and be accepted as a woman it ,might also be a virtuous circle that way and I will stop having uncertainties and be happy in myself as a woman who might perhaps still have some 'masculine sides' like any woman, but is not bothered by that.

Any thoughts about this? Did you / do you also have some feeling of conflicts between your femininity and womanhood and more maculine tendencies that bother you ? For that matter I suppose even if I still ended up feeling a little bit fluid and nonbinary sometimes while living as a woman, that it itself isn't necessarily so terrible and doesn't mean transitioning is wrong for me.

I have struggled with something similar for a long time, but I came to the conclusion that while I may not be a typical female, I certainly feel more comfortable being one than being male and that can be enough reason to transition.

And then as I've met and worked with a lot of cis women who do not represent the female gender stereotype I realized that I could be easily one of them and if I would have been raised as a girl I don't think I had much or any doubts about my gender.

I literally spent years on trying to find out if transitioning is right for me and I think I could probably continue existing without it but that does not seem to be enough, I need to live and that seems to be possible only if I continue my transition.

Quote from: Lynne on December 31, 2018, 06:38:11 AM
I've met and worked with a lot of cis women who do not represent the female gender stereotype I realized that I could be easily one of them and if I would have been raised as a girl I don't think I had much or any doubts about my gender.

I literally spent years on trying to find out if transitioning is right for me and I think I could probably continue existing without it but that does not seem to be enough, I need to live and that seems to be possible only if I continue my transition.

Wow, thanks, that resonates with me, I feel that if I transition I would really live more and exist less. And also that if I'd been assigned female I wouldn't have questioned my gender.

Quote from: Liv_J on December 31, 2018, 06:11:14 AM
be happy in myself as a woman who might perhaps still have some 'masculine sides' like any woman, but is not bothered by that.

Hi Liv, I'm only really resoonding to the above quotation since it stood out to me... I think more people will have better response than mine though.

So while I think what you said here is a great way to be hopeful and have something to look forward to... I know from my experience my own "masculine" traits or what is perceived as such, is not as similar to cis women's masculine traits, features, behaviors etc.

If you can find comfort in your body feminizing to the extent may possibly allow and also happily retain "masculine sides" that are true to you, then great. I'm just letting you know what I experienced as a feminine trans women who is called out for being a "man" by strangers and that it's very hurtful. Honestly it makes me go into a downward spiral with dysphoria... And with estrogen, it can be a very scary thing... I hope I didn't scare you because I have friends who embrace being non binar or a variation of feminine/masculine presenting.


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The way I look at it is... machines are digital, people are analog.  Even if we aim for a gender binary we don't have to be 1's and 0's - we can fit anywhere along the spectrum for activities. 

After 1-1/2 years of HRT I can no longer carry two sheets of wallboard but I still do all the work on my car and home remodeling.  If lack of muscle strength gets in the way I find a workaround. 

I never had, and still do not have a clear gender identity.  I prefer to be female, but if required for some specific action, I can take up my male role like nothing, and can be a very convincing male.
I think you never can fully shed our masculinity, because you were trained for so long to be a man, and that man is still lurking around in a dark corner of your brain.
I have to say, at the moment I like my ability of being gender fluid, because I use it for my advantage.  I don't know if I can continue to remain gender fluid, once I got bigger breasts and probably bottom surgery.  But I still believe that same of the maleness remains in me, even after these changes.

Quote from: Liv_J on December 31, 2018, 06:11:14 AM

Any thoughts about this? Did you / do you also have some feeling of conflicts between your femininity and womanhood and more maculine tendencies that bother you ? For that matter I suppose even if I still ended up feeling a little bit fluid and nonbinary sometimes while living as a woman, that it itself isn't necessarily so terrible and doesn't mean transitioning is wrong for me.

I understand your feelings because I have dealt with similar feelings myself.  When discussing it with my therapist I told her that I don't feel like a 'girly girl'.  Her reply -  neither do I.  LOL  Although it was funny it was true.  Cis women just like the rest of the world come in many types.  So do trans women.

Why?  Personality differences or maybe deeper reasons.  Sometimes I wonder if living as a male for 50 years shaped some of my preferences / tendencies.  I still like sports for example - but plenty of cis women like sports.  Another example would be hanging out with my straight guy friends.  I tend to act more like one of them when with them.  For me if I over feminize my personality I wouldn't be me.  But I have know since 5 yrs old I felt female.

Another explanation could be some of the study that has been done regarding male/female brain development during the neo natal time in the uterus.  Some studies suggest that hormone delivered to the brain may be the reason for people that are transgender.  I sort of buy into this but who knows.

You can make yourself crazy wondering about this stuff.  I believe in a gender spectrum.  My personality is probably somewhere between female and gender fluid but I prefer to live as binary female.  If I was 30 years younger maybe I would be gender fluid - just not my cup of tea.  So I fully transitioned and it was right for me.

The bottom line is don't let the world pigeon hole you and you don't need to do it to yourself.  Male - female - gender fluid - binary - whatever.  Doesn't matter.  Just be the real you.

When I took that leap of Faith to actively pursue my true female self, I was on a Britney high.  That went on for nearly two weeks.  Then, I had to do some heavy lifting, laborious "man's work", which for me, has been difficult since my Service Related Injury October 2010.  I was being part arborist, part plumber, part Irish ditch digger, struggling to save  crepe myrtle while trying to dig out an old French drain line from under the roots to run a new hard pipe.  I became exacerbated and overtaxed.  That is when my male side kicked down the barn door and came charging out on his International Harvester!  He literally took charge and told the Little Missy to stand back and go have a mint julep.  So after all the huffing, groaning, grunting and cussing, the old man got the job done.  When he turned around to give Britney a tip of the hat, she was gone.  It scared the living daylights out of me.  I started going into panic mode.  It felt, as if, my connection with her was gone.  Before I totally freaked, she came around the corner, twirling the mint in her julep and quipped, "Are ya done yet?  I've got things to do."

I am hoping that starting HRT will make such transitions more pleasant and less frequent.  I am not ashamed of my male self.  What I am ashamed of is actively repressing my female self for 50 years.  Britney, on the other hand, is gracious and won't be repeating that mistake.  I desire, with every fiber of my being to be a woman.  Hopefully my male side will decide to go on a lengthy sabbatical.  We Texas girls can take care of ourselves.

Britney - I understand the metaphor you are using about your male and female side - different aspects of your personality but remember those different aspects are all part of YOU.  The male aspects and the female aspects are not two separate entities just one person.

I used to be a national account manager for a household name kind of company.  When I had to go into negotiations much like an athlete would I had to put on my 'game face'  and flex who I was for the situation.  Same deal for you but those different parts make up the whole which is you.

Don't fight it - sometimes Britney is more girly and other times the tom-girl has to step up - same for cis women that have traditionally male jobs.  Just go with the flow sister.  It is all YOU.

You be you....
Dont let anyone trans or otherwise tell you you have to follow the typical trans narrative... That is what I have been going through do WHATEVER MAKE MS YOU HAPPIEST LM

Thanks for the interesting replies x I know really that I shouldn't have to conform to a stereotype. I guess I'm still working through things that discourage me from feeling I'm sure a MTF transition is right for me, one being how can I be sure I need it if I don't feel completely female/feminine all of the time (others being possible side effects, my lack of hair, the general legal and social difficulties etc especially as I'm a British person living in another EU country and facing some extra complications at the moment also due to Brexit... plus the fact that some close family in the UK are kind of transphobic and not supportive of my gender questioning).

Sigh. I know I'm more female/woman/feminine than male/man/masculine, and it makes me happy the rare times I dress female with friends, to be called she (and don't like it when people call me monsieur, and I always avoid gendering myself as male) and I like photos of myself if I manage to look reasonably pretty and feminine and don't like ones of me otherwise unless I'm at least looking a bit androgynous (but then I still like it less than if I look like a woman). I know I don't like body hair and remove it and avoid wearing men's clothes whenever possible and wear non-obvious female ones. But I mostly avoid wearing really feminine things despite liking them and having various things in my closet and I am not really satisfied with how my body looks in them at the moment anyway (also partly due to typically-male weight gain that I struggle to motivate myself to lose). I know also that I've always been kind of hopeless re. relationships and sex partly becuase in my head I basically want people to treat me as a bi woman and not a man. I know also that for years I've explored trying to identify as, and be open about being, non-binary, but still don't really feel very fulfilled. Gah, wish I didn't let doubts get to me and that I'd just get on with it. Seems a no-brainer really, but then I still let doubts stop me   

Hi Liv,

Maybe it is time to see a gender therapist again, if you are not currently.

My 2 cents is that you sound like you will be happiest living and being identified socially as a woman.

As far a HRT goes, I know a successful/happy trans woman who has never taken anything.

My maculine side is very dormant, sure there are the years of socialisation, but if doesn't intrude on my thoughts.

About the Androcur, that's what I am taking.  Hope that study is not replicated.

Quote from: KimOct on December 31, 2018, 10:08:47 PM
You can make yourself crazy wondering about this stuff.  I believe in a gender spectrum.

I believe in the spectrum, but when I think about it, it's like going down the rabbit hole! Being happy in myself with the binary label I find much easier and simpler.

~Dee.

Thanks Dee   Yes I believe in a spectrum too and even started a successful Facebook group for nonbinary people, but I tend to think that if I'd been assigned female it wouldn't really have been an issue for me... I think I will move ahead this year sooner rather than later. If I find out more advice 're. the Androcur issues I'll post about it. Basically as far as I know it was that the frequency of a kind of benign growth in the brain was found to increase significantly with people using it especially if over a number of years and at a high dose. Not that it's actually likely that people would suffer from that, just that it was noticeably more likely than for people not using it. It's under review in France but is still considered acceptable to use.

I am fully gender fluid, but absolutely binary.  No matter how I present, I am always interested in females only

I can present as a man, and I would be considered to be a cis hetero man, or I can present as a woman, and I would be considered as being lesbian.
My sexual orientation has not changed at all, but it just gets different labels, depending on how I present.

I feel that one has to let go of the idea that gender is connected to sexual orientation, both are different pairs of shoes.

Well I am not sure what to make of the masc and femme sides for a trans-woman but I can say that I am enjoying these college football games being played this evening, since early in the third quarter of the Rose Bowl.

I know that some girls like to watch football, sure.  So maybe this is not my MASC side.   

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on January 01, 2019, 09:02:22 PM
Well I am not sure what to make of the masc and femme sides for a trans-woman but I can say that I am enjoying these college football games being played this evening, since early in the third quarter of the Rose Bowl.

I know that some girls like to watch football, sure.  So maybe this is not my MASC side.   

Chrissy

And I, the one who can be male or female at the flipp of a finger, am not the least interested in any of those team sports.

It might not be a male thing, but just some "bad" habits you dragged along?

Quote from: KimOct on January 01, 2019, 01:11:45 AM
Britney - I understand the metaphor you are using about your male and female side - different aspects of your personality but remember those different aspects are all part of YOU.  The male aspects and the female aspects are not two separate entities just one person.

I used to be a national account manager for a household name kind of company.  When I had to go into negotiations much like an athlete would I had to put on my 'game face'  and flex who I was for the situation.  Same deal for you but those different parts make up the whole which is you.

Don't fight it - sometimes Britney is more girly and other times the tom-girl has to step up - same for cis women that have traditionally male jobs.  Just go with the flow sister.  It is all YOU.

Yes, two parts of a whole.  My problem was that I was rather successful at suppressing the Britney part.  When I finally stopped being a fool and accept who I was, relinquishing my repression of her, she came on like gang busters, taking charge.  It was all enveloping, as if, she had never been held back.  So when I swung back hard to the old me, it felt like a part of me had been ripped out.  Never had that experience before.   My therapist suggested that I watch Hedwig And The Angry Inch.  She wanted me to see that dichotomy of the two halves that are only at odds when one is being repressed.  Happiness only comes from Balance and two halves must equally accepted to become whole.  That is how I took the Midnight Radio closing scene of the movie when Hedwig tossed off the wig, tore off the breast forms and just become his/her whole self.  The scene/song Wicked Little Town cuts right thru to my soul.  I had never heard of this movie or the play till the therapist recommended it.  Though I was a child in the 70s, I grew into my own as an 80s child, so I visited a few Rocky Horror Picture Show midnight cult showings.  Hedwig tops this and is now my favs.  I can't seem to get enough of it.  I will probably watch it more times than I did Purple Rain (19 times) or Gremlins (14 times) at the Dollar Theater when they switched from the big theaters.  Best bang for the Buck, even back in the 80s!

Quote from: mako9802 on January 01, 2019, 02:43:51 PM
You be you....
Dont let anyone trans or otherwise tell you you have to follow the typical trans narrative... That is what I have been going through do WHATEVER MAKE MS YOU HAPPIEST LM

Thanks!

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on January 01, 2019, 09:02:22 PM
Well I am not sure what to make of the masc and femme sides for a trans-woman but I can say that I am enjoying these college football games being played this evening, since early in the third quarter of the Rose Bowl.

I know that some girls like to watch football, sure.  So maybe this is not my MASC side.   

Chrissy

Eh - I still like sports but not a fanatic at all.  But one thing I can say for sure - when watching football I sure look at those butts in the tight pants more than I used to. LOL !!!  It's funny but also true.

My boyfriend has gotten me into soccer a little. Not the game but the people. It is hard not to with his enthusiasm and seeing it all of the time. I don't understand the game completely but he loves Manchester City and Manchester United so I have gotten to know the players over the years. I love Ibrahimovic even though he no longer plays for a Manchester team, sue me, I like the bad boys. I could go on with Sterling but you get the picture. He likes Harry Kane and we both are wondering where Liverpool came from!

I love the Philadelphia Eagles though. That will never change. I have a picture of my siblings on a sofa when I was maybe six, it is really hard to tell who is who between my younger brother, sister and I but everyone can pick me out because I am wearing a Eagles top. I have been a fan for all of these years, through Joworski, Cunningham and McNabb, I will never stop cheering for them even if I have antlers, a lion's head and a zebra's butt. Dude or dudette, try to take that away from me an I will gnaw your feet off.

Ah hem! Sorry, got a little intense there. Other than that I could care less about sports. Seriously, why are there farms in baseball? Wait, no, don't care.

I have never gravitated to what is mostly perceived as masculine traits, no clue as to why. Oh my god, my boyfriend has a very tiny, very fast sports car and all I can think of when he wants me to ride in it is,"Seriously, you want me to crawl down into that with this skirt on?" We have two cars and an suv between us so no biggie but you should see the smile on his face when I say,"Nah, I have a lot to do, do you mind going without me?" He almost says thank you. I was forced to go hunting as a child. I hated it, my handle on the CB radio was the 'The Sleeper'. I always put my gun aside and promptly fell asleep when they left me in a spot. Even thirty feet up in a tree with no tree stand wedged into a Y in a limb. Kind of embarrassing really. I don't know that those are only male traits. My one nephew's baby momma lives to hunt and has an enormous hillbilly pickup. She is so cute and guys hit on her all of the time when we go out.

Be you, just be you. No one gets out of life alive, do your own thing while you are here.

Quote from: KimOct on January 01, 2019, 09:59:28 PM
Eh - I still like sports but not a fanatic at all.  But one thing I can say for sure - when watching football I sure look at those butts in the tight pants more than I used to. LOL !!!  It's funny but also true.

Okay, a good butt is nice but the arms are just, whew! To really appreciate a guy I love nice abs, or a hairy muscular chest. Mmmmm! He may be short but have you ever seen Zac Efron pull up his shirt casually. Right, as if. He knows, oh god he knows how amazing he looks and is just teasing us. Grr!