Great idea!

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Well, my girlfriend is moving out. Not for gender reasons so much as our awful fighting. I've never fought with anyone the way I fight with her. I love her deeply, but it's terrible. Last night, I called the police because she was hitting me. I didn't think I was in danger, but I needed it to deescalate.

So, I am heartbroken, but now I can feel truly free to explore. Thanks, angels.

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Quote from: madison_b on December 31, 2018, 11:14:46 AM
I've read about that! Is that technology available outside of studies? I mean, ultimately, we should simply do what makes us happy, but I wouldn't say no to scientific proof that I'm a woman. It would take away some of the guilt of disrupting other people's lives.

Madison, I completely understand our desire for certainty, but I have to caution that the tests that can be done on a living subject will not provide certainty.  The test that can be done typically involve a Functional Magnet Resonance Imaging (fMRI) system to measure activity in areas of the brain. 

There are over ten distinct regions of the brain that are sexually dimorphic, that is, regions that show measurable differences between normative male and female persons.  That said, there is overlap between the appearances of these regions between male and female persons.  Further, only about 6% of the population will show all regions with the normative appearance for a specific gender.  Most folks are a blend!  The 'binary' we experience is a cultural artifact.

There are some pinpoint locations that appear to correlate strongly with gender identity, but they require dissection and staining of brain tissue to be examined.  This is not appropriate for a living patient.

Quote from: madison_b on January 02, 2019, 04:14:34 PM
Well, my girlfriend is moving out. Not for gender reasons so much as our awful fighting. I've never fought with anyone the way I fight with her. I love her deeply, but it's terrible. Last night, I called the police because she was hitting me. I didn't think I was in danger, but I needed it to deescalate.

So, I am heartbroken, but now I can feel truly free to explore. Thanks, angels.

While I am sorry for your heartbreak, no person, whether cis or trans, should be subjected to abuse.  While one may still be tangled up in that emotional state of love, that should never excuse or allow toleration of abuse, especially violence towards oneself.

No person 'deserves' violence. 

I am late to your thread Madison. I am so sorry that things didn't work out with your girlfriend. Break ups are very hard. I would imagine that for a while your thoughts will surround the pain of this parting. I hope you can eventually come to a place where you are ready to find answers to your gender questions again. As I may not be around at that time, I will offer a bit of advice that helped me. If you don't have any answers, get more information. Go out into the world in a safe manner (out of town?) and find out how it makes you feel to be regarded as female. I struggled as you did, back and forth in my thinking. I was not able to clearly tell what was 'want to be female' versus 'want to be with a female.' When I went out and people thought I was female, I knew I was trans and was a transitioner because I loved it. It might be a piece of information that might help you. Therapists help, but there is no replacement for actual experience. Your journey is a highly individual thing. I would urge you to face it and not run. I feel like I need to put a disclaimer out on one thing. Gender identity and orientation are separate things. Sometimes they are affected by one another in unexpected ways. Keep your mind open. Find your truth.

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 02, 2019, 05:57:12 PM
Madison, I completely understand our desire for certainty, but I have to caution that the tests that can be done on a living subject will not provide certainty.  The test that can be done typically involve a Functional Magnet Resonance Imaging (fMRI) system to measure activity in areas of the brain. 

There are over ten distinct regions of the brain that are sexually dimorphic, that is, regions that show measurable differences between normative male and female persons.  That said, there is overlap between the appearances of these regions between male and female persons.  Further, only about 6% of the population will show all regions with the normative appearance for a specific gender.  Most folks are a blend!  The 'binary' we experience is a cultural artifact.

There are some pinpoint locations that appear to correlate strongly with gender identity, but they require dissection and staining of brain tissue to be examined.  This is not appropriate for a living patient.

While I am sorry for your heartbreak, no person, whether cis or trans, should be subjected to abuse.  While one may still be tangled up in that emotional state of love, that should never excuse or allow toleration of abuse, especially violence towards oneself.

No person 'deserves' violence.

I really appreciate your insight and empathy, Michelle. I suppose anything as attractive as certainly in most pursuits comes at a cost.

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And by that I mean a high, questionable cost, like you described. Really, we should do what brings us joy, and not question it if it's not causing harm, right? I appreciate how you talked about the construct of binary.

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Thank you, Moni! I totally agree that there is no substitute for experience. I think, now that I've got nothing to lose, I'll express myself as female more publicly. I've done that once before (besides presenting female at school for Halloween ... I'm a teacher ... No one knew that it carried special importance and meaning for me!), and it's time I tried again.

My therapist told me she is starting a group for transgender individuals, and I'm eager to join, and I've found some local Meetup groups that would be appropriate for exploration.

You know what? I was planning to go to the Philly art museum this weekend to see an exhibit on fashion through the ages ... What if I left Matt at home and just took Maddie?! I can't imagine a better environment!

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Madison,

I am in a similar predicament, of course, I don't know what you will discover for yourself, but I feel for your situation.  For me, it required lots of time to myself to think and feel, and look back at the past, and consider what I wanted in my future.  Be gentle with yourself.  Make sure you have support in place if you discover you need transition and your  kids are a wild card.  Make sure you have the support BEFORE you tell them   Even scheduling family counseling beforehand.  Hindsight

In particular, I was struck my Pamela's response, and have first hand experience with limerent obsession for women.  My confusion over being both physically attracted to women while feeling envious of them was a huge conflict for me. In fact, what finally broke though my resistance of accepting I am transgender was falling in love with one of those teen kids in a mini skirt.  After six months of a torturous, surreal poetic  obsession (and guilt, I am married and in my forties) I finally realized the truth for me.  She was almost exactly like me at her age, the age where I put up a brutal wall of denial.  Even her face structure, nose, eye color, hair, and build were similar(eerily like my Mom as well, but that is another whole set of issues).  I literally, HAD fallen in love with the me that should have been.  What is really bizarre, is the moment I saw that clearly and accepted it, my interest in her disappeared completely. Like magic.  I still see her all the time.  I like her.  She is a funky artistic kid.  That painful, obsessive love feeling is just a weird memory.  Now I have a new name for that crawling, obsessive feeling: Gender dysphoria.  Not having an object to pin it on as a something to have, makes me finally embrace being.  No choice really .  It feels very much like that teen girl inside has a gun pointed to my back saying "MARCH or I shoot".

So onward I go, trying to enjoy this very unexpected journey. Everyone's experience is different, and in my case feelings of longing to be a girl go back to when I was 6 or 7 (as does my first limerent obsession).  Thank you for sharing your experience and willingness to just explore this question. 

All the best,

Jael

Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 31, 2018, 08:48:02 AM
...there not necessarily being a "competition" but instead a "unison" between your two mentioned thoughts and I copy below.

"I am inclined to believe that not only is there a "competition" going on in our minds between our trans status and the hope (especially when we are young) of finding the perfect attractive romantic female partner but also an element of the two being "in unison" in that we may to a large degree find "the one" as perfect attractive and romantic as really our main objective is to be like her (but as that is impossible, we pursue and perhaps end up in a sexual relationship which we may enjoy or which we may be indifferent to)."

Oh Jael, thank you for your vulnerability. I teach kindergarteners and first graders, and sometimes I envy they're little Ugg boots and how girls interact. I miss being dressed like a little girl, and interacting as a girl. Thank you again.

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Quote from: madison_b on January 02, 2019, 07:23:03 PM
Thank you, Moni! I totally agree that there is no substitute for experience. I think, now that I've got nothing to lose, I'll express myself as female more publicly. I've done that once before (besides presenting female at school for Halloween ... I'm a teacher ... No one knew that it carried special importance and meaning for me!), and it's time I tried again.

My therapist told me she is starting a group for transgender individuals, and I'm eager to join, and I've found some local Meetup groups that would be appropriate for exploration.

You know what? I was planning to go to the Philly art museum this weekend to see an exhibit on fashion through the ages ... What if I left Matt at home and just took Maddie?! I can't imagine a better environment!

Sent from my Lenovo YB1-X90F using Tapatalk

Maddie,
   If you are within driving distance of Philly you might consider going to a trans conference. Not sure when the Philly one is, but I know the Keystone Conference is in March (20th through 24 in Harrisburg). Google it, it is amazing to be surrounded by a whole bunch of trans folks, folks who understand. They have educational experiences and social events as well. I am thinking of going again this year. I think your idea is excellent. If your avatar is you, you look to present female very well. That will make things easier for you.
   When you spoke of being hit, I didn't say it before, but I'm glad you are getting away from that.

   I am in the school system as well. It is actually a good place for being trans usually, if it comes to that. I got a lot of support. I have a teacher friend who also had good support.
   I am glad to hear of your eagerness to explore. It is very positive.
Moni

Oh wow, yes, Harrisburg is easy for me to get to, and yes that is me and you are very kind! Please let me know and specifics! Thank you thank you thank you!

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(I am swooning over being told I present female well!)

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I just looked into the conference! Thank you!

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Wow, this is me on so many levels. Thanks for posting that.

Quote from: Jeal on January 02, 2019, 09:20:16 PM
My confusion over being both physically attracted to women while feeling envious of them was a huge conflict for me. In fact, what finally broke though my resistance of accepting I am transgender was falling in love with one of those teen kids in a mini skirt.  After six months of a torturous, surreal poetic  obsession (and guilt, I am married and 44) I finally realized the truth for me.  She was almost exactly like me at her age, the age where I put up a brutal wall of denial.  Even her face structure, nose, eye color, hair, and build were similar(eerily like my Mom as well, but that is another whole set of issues).  I literally, HAD fallen in love with the me that should have been.  What is really bizarre, is the moment I saw that clearly and accepted it, my interest in her disappeared completely.

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 02, 2019, 05:57:12 PM
There are over ten distinct regions of the brain that are sexually dimorphic, that is, regions that show measurable differences here are some pinpoint locations that appear to correlate strongly with gender identity, but they require dissection and staining of brain tissue to be examined.  This is not appropriate for a living patient.

I have to agree, that would be takings things a bit far!!  And you confirm what I also thought, that there is no 100% accurate way to identify a "female" or "male" brain. AFAIK there's no physical examination that can tell you you're trans, it's down to us to work it out. But I've also had quite a bit of conflict and confusion about it. I think though it's partly due to fear and to other people's transphobia. I knew the first time I was with other people dressed as a woman, when I was 20, that it felt right and happy, and should have just gone with that and not complicated my life.

Sorry about what you are going through with your girlfriend Madison. I hope things all work out for you x

Quote from: madison_b on January 02, 2019, 09:31:26 PM
Oh wow, yes, Harrisburg is easy for me to get to, and yes that is me and you are very kind! Please let me know and specifics! Thank you thank you thank you!

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The list of presentations should be out soon. Registration will start within the next few weeks. If I go it would be on the weekend. Maybe I'll see you there. It's much more intimate, might be the right word, then the one I went to in Philly. The whole hotel is basically trans, so it is a very comfortable space for shy folk. You can opt for lunch and dinner with dance if you like.
Warmly,
Moni

Quote from: madison_b on January 02, 2019, 04:14:34 PM
Well, my girlfriend is moving out. Not for gender reasons so much as our awful fighting. I've never fought with anyone the way I fight with her. I love her deeply, but it's terrible. Last night, I called the police because she was hitting me. I didn't think I was in danger, but I needed it to deescalate.

So, I am heartbroken, but now I can feel truly free to explore. Thanks, angels.

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Hello again Madison

I am sorry to read both about the abuse which you should never have to suffer, and of your girlfriend leaving.

It takes time to get over a relationship and I feel for you.

At least as you say, you will be able to explore your potential trans status when you are ready.

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: Jeal on January 02, 2019, 09:20:16 PM
Madison,

In particular, I was struck my Pamela's response, and have first hand experience with limerent obsession for women.  My confusion over being both physically attracted to women while feeling envious of them was a huge conflict for me. In fact, what finally broke though my resistance of accepting I am transgender was falling in love with one of those teen kids in a mini skirt.  After six months of a torturous, surreal poetic  obsession (and guilt, I am married and in my forties) I finally realized the truth for me.  She was almost exactly like me at her age, the age where I put up a brutal wall of denial.  Even her face structure, nose, eye color, hair, and build were similar(eerily like my Mom as well, but that is another whole set of issues).  I literally, HAD fallen in love with the me that should have been.  What is really bizarre, is the moment I saw that clearly and accepted it, my interest in her disappeared completely. Like magic.  I still see her all the time.  I like her.  She is a funky artistic kid.  That painful, obsessive love feeling is just a weird memory.  Now I have a new name for that crawling, obsessive feeling: Gender dysphoria.  Not having an object to pin it on as a something to have, makes me finally embrace being.  No choice really .  It feels very much like that teen girl inside has a gun pointed to my back saying "MARCH or I shoot".

So onward I go, trying to enjoy this very unexpected journey. Everyone's experience is different, and in my case feelings of longing to be a girl go back to when I was 6 or 7 (as does my first limerent obsession).  Thank you for sharing your experience and willingness to just explore this question. 

All the best,

Jael

Hello Jael

Well yours is quite some post for a firsttime poster! Welcome to Susans; this is a wonderful informative website with so many kind understanding and helpful members on so many forums. An official greeter will be here to welcome you soon.

Thank you for your comments highlighted which were in response to my earlier comment which I had copied from my thread "For Asexual or Mainly Asexual Transgender Members Please" and therefore I am copying your response to that thread also.

You may wish to read either the long thread or perhaps just the December and January comments therein; it started as a "mainly asexual" thread but expanded to wider subjects!

Once again thank you and Welcome to Susans.

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: Jeal on January 02, 2019, 09:20:16 PM
Madison,

I am in a similar predicament, of course, I don't know what you will discover for yourself, but I feel for your situation.  For me, it required lots of time to myself to think and feel, and look back at the past, and consider what I wanted in my future.  Be gentle with yourself.  Make sure you have support in place if you discover you need transition and your  kids are a wild card.  Make sure you have the support BEFORE you tell them   Even scheduling family counseling beforehand.  Hindsight

In particular, I was struck my Pamela's response, and have first hand experience with limerent obsession for women.  My confusion over being both physically attracted to women while feeling envious of them was a huge conflict for me. In fact, what finally broke though my resistance of accepting I am transgender was falling in love with one of those teen kids in a mini skirt.  After six months of a torturous, surreal poetic  obsession (and guilt, I am married and in my forties) I finally realized the truth for me.  She was almost exactly like me at her age, the age where I put up a brutal wall of denial.  Even her face structure, nose, eye color, hair, and build were similar(eerily like my Mom as well, but that is another whole set of issues).  I literally, HAD fallen in love with the me that should have been.  What is really bizarre, is the moment I saw that clearly and accepted it, my interest in her disappeared completely. Like magic.  I still see her all the time.  I like her.  She is a funky artistic kid.  That painful, obsessive love feeling is just a weird memory.  Now I have a new name for that crawling, obsessive feeling: Gender dysphoria.  Not having an object to pin it on as a something to have, makes me finally embrace being.  No choice really .  It feels very much like that teen girl inside has a gun pointed to my back saying "MARCH or I shoot".

So onward I go, trying to enjoy this very unexpected journey. Everyone's experience is different, and in my case feelings of longing to be a girl go back to when I was 6 or 7 (as does my first limerent obsession).  Thank you for sharing your experience and willingness to just explore this question. 

All the best,

Jael

Hi, Jeal!

Welcome to Susan's Place.

Thank you for sharing your experience.  You bring an interesting and valuable perspective to the discussion.

Please feel free to stop by the Introductions forum to tell the members about yourself.  Here is some information that we like to share with new members:

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Quote from: amandam on January 02, 2019, 09:47:59 PM
Wow, this is me on so many levels. Thanks for posting that.

Hello again Amandam

Nice to see you posting again. I have followed your personal thread for 18 months and commented on it several times, you may recall. Happy New Year to you.

My advice to Jael also applies to you. You may wish to read the long thread "For Asexual or Mainly Asexual Transgender Members Please" or you just the December and January comments therein.

Hugs

Pamela