Funny that thus turned into a thread about sport The roller derby sounds fun. I did a bit of rollerblading a few years ago but haven't practised lately. I should get them out and try. I don't watch sport and don't do much (enough) but have been known to go jogging or go for hikes. Used to play tennis sometimes.

Quote from: Dietlind on January 04, 2019, 12:02:53 AM
When was that?  Here I lived and worked for 40+ years there, and I have never met a trans person ever (at least not that I know of)

It was April 2018.  MN rollergirls.  5000 people in attendance - no exaggeration.

As for the transwoman in public - happens all the time, I just never had one I never met come up to me in public and start talking to me like that.  She was trying to be nice but it was kind of different - I know she meant well but it felt like we were in some secret club of something.  I was standing in line talking to a cis-girlfriend and the transwoman just barges in out of the blue and starts talking to me.  Very strange - but she seemed nice.

I belong to a social group in Mpls.  We go out a lot.  Just last night I went out for dinner with another transwoman. 
I know at least 30 transwomen some are friends others are acquaintances.  I guess it depends where you live.

Since you lived here you probably know uptown a lot of us live and or socialize around there - a hipper area of town for those unfamiliar.

Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 02:52:38 AM
It was April 2018.  MN rollergirls.  5000 people in attendance - no exaggeration.

As for the transwoman in public - happens all the time, I just never had one I never met come up to me in public and start talking to me like that.  She was trying to be nice but it was kind of different - I know she meant well but it felt like we were in some secret club of something.  I was standing in line talking to a cis-girlfriend and the transwoman just barges in out of the blue and starts talking to me.  Very strange - but she seemed nice.

I belong to a social group in Mpls.  We go out a lot.  Just last night I went out for dinner with another transwoman. 
I know at least 30 transwomen some are friends others are acquaintances.  I guess it depends where you live.

Since you lived here you probably know uptown a lot of us live and or socialize around there - a hipper area of town for those unfamiliar.

I lived across the St. Croix, in Hudson. We mostly went out in St. Paul, and hardly ventured into Mpolis.  A little to the Pracna on Main area, but not much.  I worked at the Mining head quarters in St. Paul along I 94  all that time (the campus has close to 30K employees, the med group alone has about 5k), and I bet there were enough trans girls there, but I would not have know who was, and who not.

Now I wish I would have stayed up there (but I was sick and tired of having cold feet for 6 months a year), and would have some social interaction with people "of my kind". 
I have some flair of the Cities down here, because I live about 20 mins driving away from Twins Territory. The Twins winter training set up is down here, but I am not a base ball fan.

Quote from: KimOct on December 31, 2018, 10:08:47 PM
I understand your feelings because I have dealt with similar feelings myself.  When discussing it with my therapist I told her that I don't feel like a 'girly girl'.  Her reply -  neither do I.  LOL  Although it was funny it was true.  Cis women just like the rest of the world come in many types.  So do trans women.

Yes cis women come in a range or spectrum of feminine to masculine. Some can be very masculine without ever identifying as male. They are often leaders or in tech/science and are often very extrovert. Then there are also very butch women, which is different, they are often lesbian or bi and possibly gender fluid.
Think of the difference between a professor or director types vs. a mechanic or athlete in masculine sports.

Quote from: KimOct on December 31, 2018, 10:08:47 PM
Why?  Personality differences or maybe deeper reasons.  Sometimes I wonder if living as a male for 50 years shaped some of my preferences / tendencies.  I still like sports for example - but plenty of cis women like sports.  Another example would be hanging out with my straight guy friends.  I tend to act more like one of them when with them.  For me if I over feminize my personality I wouldn't be me.  But I have know since 5 yrs old I felt female.

We all conform to the behavior of the group we are in at any given time. We don't talk fast and loud when visiting the elderly or ill. We don't tell rude jokes when around people that we think won't like them and we don't talk shop around friends and family. We behave differently at work than at home.

That said I never really manage to conform to female behavior. I have been very active in equal rights for women and to increase number of women in tech because I'm a programmer. In my last position I ran a women developers group. The more active I have been in these women circles the more acutely I realise how I am not a woman. All of my reactions and perceptions are different to theirs. I see and experience the world very differently.
They see it too and show it. Even when delivering my children I didn't quite pass as a woman to the nurses and midwifes.

Quote from: KimOct on December 31, 2018, 10:08:47 PM
Another explanation could be some of the study that has been done regarding male/female brain development during the neo natal time in the uterus.  Some studies suggest that hormone delivered to the brain may be the reason for people that are transgender.  I sort of buy into this but who knows.

For what it is worth, one way to see that is to look at your index finger vs your ring finger. If your ring finger is larger, it indicates a higher level of Testosterone during the brain formation time.
Mine is in fact much larger and typical for males: index finger/ring finger = 0.929.

This is not in any way a definitive test, it is just an indicator of prenatal exposure.

You can search on Google for Digit ratio. 

Quote from: skipulus on January 04, 2019, 11:15:29 AM


That said I never really manage to conform to female behavior. I have been very active in equal rights for women and to increase number of women in tech because I'm a programmer. In my last position I ran a women developers group. The more active I have been in these women circles the more acutely I realise how I am not a woman. All of my reactions and perceptions are different to theirs. I see and experience the world very differently.
They see it too and show it. Even when delivering my children I didn't quite pass as a woman to the nurses and midwifes.

I must have always been closer to females than to males.  My friends (almost all females) tell me, they always could talk better with me (when i was sill presenting as male only) than with any male they know.  They said tht they always felt like talking to another female when they talked with me.

Quote
For what it is worth, one way to see that is to look at your index finger vs your ring finger. If your ring finger is larger, it indicates a higher level of Testosterone during the brain formation time.
Mine is in fact much larger and typical for males: index finger/ring finger = 0.929.

This is not in any way a definitive test, it is just an indicator of prenatal exposure.

You can search on Google for Digit ratio.

Funny, the ring finger of my right hand is shorter than the index finger, while the ring finger on the left hand is a little larger than the index finger.  That might indicate me being intersex?  A little bit of both genders are showing up in my hands!

Quote from: Dietlind on January 04, 2019, 11:34:51 AM
Funny, the ring finger of my right hand is shorter than the index finger, while the ring finger on the left hand is a little larger than the index finger.  That might indicate me being intersex?  A little bit of both genders are showing up in my hands!

Careful measurement and found that both of my ring fingers are the same as my indexes!!!

Quote from: skipulus on January 04, 2019, 11:15:29 AM
For what it is worth, one way to see that is to look at your index finger vs your ring finger. If your ring finger is larger, it indicates a higher level of Testosterone during the brain formation time.
Mine is in fact much larger and typical for males: index finger/ring finger = 0.929.

This is not in any way a definitive test, it is just an indicator of prenatal exposure.

You can search on Google for Digit ratio.

I always thought that my ring finger was longer so that my future husband could put a bigger rock on it.  ha ah 
So does that mean I have to get a ring finger digit reduction?  Drats!!!

My ring finger is noticeably shorter than my index finger.

My cis sister is more masculine than I. I teased her not long ago that I was the only real girl in the family, and she laughingly agreed. My interests, personality and emotions have always been and still are labeled socially as feminine. Trying to behave male/masculine against my true nature was my conflict growing up and into adulthood. Before transition and HRT, I was miserable. Now I'm happy that I can live outwardly the way I am inwardly. This is my experience, and everyone is unique. There's no right or wrong. We just need to find ourselves and be that for the rest of our lives. I finally did and it's amazing. Best wishes!

My little daughter is very masculine in some aspects, but she is any way a teen girl and very emotional, especially in relationships with her classmates. I was very feminine at my teens, trying hard to look masculine or a macho to hide my femininity. Nowadays college students I teach seem to sometimes be surprised at my aggressiveness. Nevertheless, girl students approach me with little hesitation, and I guess they think I am a kind of their companion.

barbie~~

Here is a pic of the roller derby halftime party I mentioned earlier in the thread.  See if there is one around you - such a blast and very inclusive.  Obviously not all 5000 attendees were on the rink - we just stayed in our seats and danced around.

Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 08:40:19 PM
Here is a pic of the roller derby halftime party I mentioned earlier in the thread.  See if there is one around you - such a blast and very inclusive.  Obviously not all 5000 attendees were on the rink - we just stayed in our seats and danced around.

Was that in the Exel Energy center?

No next door at Roy Wilkens - If you look at the stage and the screen behind it I think you can read the Wilkens name.

Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 10:42:35 PM
No next door at Roy Wilkens - If you look at the stage and the screen behind it I think you can read the Wilkens name.

I was heavily involved in the annual Festival of Nations, and we had our booth most of the time there.
My employer (the Mining)  had always the employee awards programs there.

Quote from: skipulus on January 04, 2019, 11:15:29 AM

For what it is worth, one way to see that is to look at your index finger vs your ring finger. If your ring finger is larger, it indicates a higher level of Testosterone during the brain formation time.
Mine is in fact much larger and typical for males: index finger/ring finger = 0.929.

This is not in any way a definitive test, it is just an indicator of prenatal exposure.

You can search on Google for Digit ratio.

I looked up what you're supposed to do and measured from the middle of the crease to tip and mine are the same length. According to Wikipedia the ring finger is normally a bit longer in men and women, but it's typically more pronounced in men.

Quote from: Beverly Anne on January 04, 2019, 06:46:36 PM
Now I'm happy that I can live outwardly the way I am inwardly. This is my experience, and everyone is unique. There's no right or wrong. We just need to find ourselves and be that for the rest of our lives. I finally did and it's amazing. Best wishes!

Glad it's working out well for you

Quote from: Liv_J on January 05, 2019, 02:24:19 PM
I looked up what you're supposed to do and measured from the crease to tip and mine are the same length. According to Wikipedia the ring finger is normally a bit longer in men and women, but it's typically more pronouned in men.

When I measure them in that fashion, they are nearly the same, with the ring finger just edging out the index.  However, when you look at my outstretched hands, my right ring finger is more pronounceable in length than the Left.

Quote from: BritneyX on January 05, 2019, 02:37:35 PM
When I measure them in that fashion, they are nearly the same, with the ring finger just edging out the index.  However, when you look at my outstretched hands, my right ring finger is more pronounceable in length than the Left.

I wonder if that has anything to do with being right or left handed?  My right ring finger is nearly as long as the index finger of the right hand, while the ring finger of the left hand is clearly longer than the index finger of that hand.

I am right handed.

Quote from: Dietlind on January 06, 2019, 12:21:45 AM
I wonder if that has anything to do with being right or left handed?  My right ring finger is nearly as long as the index finger of the right hand, while the ring finger of the left hand is clearly longer than the index finger of that hand.

I am right handed.

I am right handed, as well, but the layout is opposite of yours. My right ring finger is the longer of the two, compared to the index.  Now I will say, when I was young, I had a wooden pane window come down on my right finger at the joint between the intermediate and the proximal phalanges.  I thought I had severed my finger.  For over two decades, it had a different bend than the left.  Now, it appears to be matched again. Perhaps the trauma suffered scarred up increasing the length of the joint? 

Quote from: BritneyX on January 06, 2019, 09:23:57 PM
I am right handed, as well, but the layout is opposite of yours. My right ring finger is the longer of the two, compared to the index.  Now I will say, when I was young, I had a wooden pane window come down on my right finger at the joint between the intermediate and the proximal phalanges.  I thought I had severed my finger.  For over two decades, it had a different bend than the left.  Now, it appears to be matched again. Perhaps the trauma suffered scarred up increasing the length of the joint?

You could have gotten some calcification at that joint, which stretched it a little.  You might get osteoarthritis there when you get a little older.