I've been assuming for a long time that I'm going to go full-time eventually, with the full "transgender experience" so to speak. HRT, 24/7 voice change, 24/7 female presentation, pronoun change, orchiectomy, the works; pretty much everything except full SRS. However, lately, I've been wondering if that's what I really want. I've finally amassed some female clothes that I feel comfortable in and I think look pretty good, albeit not passing, and it's reduced a lot of my dysphoria. I might be fine just wearing women's clothes socially, and not worry about full transition or publicly identifiying as a woman, just a man with a feminine appearance and style. Most of my friends would probably accept it, and I wouldn't have to bother putting a lot of effort into my appearance for work and just go in man-mode.

this just seems more natural and easier than going through a lot of effort to present as female all the time and getting people to respect pronoun change and bathroom use and stuff, I'd just go with the defaults I always have. I could worry more about whether clothes "look good" on me than whether they let me "pass," too. Explaining what I'm doing to others also seems like it would be more natural, saying "this is just what I want to wear" instead of a gender identity spiel.

Now, obviously, this route has its own difficulties, but it just seems to suit me more. If I change my mind later, I can still go the full transition route down the road. Anyone else have experience with this?

Hi Lucca,

Depending on where you live and work, you could still run in to many of the acceptance problems that many who do a full transition.  I expect that you have a better feel for how that will work out.

The bottom line is that you need what you need to do to be comfortable to be you and to be safe.  I wish you the best, ans I will be excited to hear back on how your journey progresses.

Gwen

You do you.

Something that my therapist once said to me seems appropriate here: "Don't worry about labels, just think about what will make you feel better." If you later decide that transitioning is for you, it will be waiting there for you.

i do not have personal experience with this.  I have had similar thoughts though.  What you are describing I would probably term as genderqueer, which I kind of take as non-gender conforming without trying to achieve either end of the binary.  That might be a wildly inaccurate use of the term.  At any rate, that would be easier and more feasible in a lot of ways, but it presents its own difficulties.  We are such a binary culture and society.  In some ways, I think a non-conforming person is more challenging that a non-passing person who is trying to conform to societal expectations.  An obvious example would be a bearded natal male wearing a dress and heels. (Admittedly, that is an extreme example.)  But an androgynous presentation would probably work as long as you are happy with androgynous.  What I have found in my case, though, is the more I present in public as feminine, the more I'm drawn towards the binary end.  It doesn't seem enough to just rock a purse and some cute shoes.  That makes me want to to something with my hair, experiment with jewelry and makeup, wear clothes that are more obvious feminine.  Fragrances start to sound attractive.  At some point, androgynous doesn't resolve my dysphoria.   But everyone is different.  If you're comfortable more in the middle, that could make things a lot easier for you.   

I'm just trying to figure out what it is I really want, the women's clothing I've gotten is so much more comfortable then my men's clothing, and fits my body better, strangely enough. At least now that I've lost a lot of weight. I think my body is more androgynous than I used to conciously give it credit for; I used to wear oversized men's jeans and t-shirts because I didn't want my hips, curvy legs, or breasts to be visible. I've found that if I don't care about hiding them and wear more tapered clothing, my clothes just fit a lot better. They're way less heavy, as well. I also hate having stuff in my pockets and using a purse of some kind feels more natural.

Asking other people to use female pronouns may be more trouble than it's worth compared to how much I'd like it, and same with bathroom choice. And HRT makes me nervous because of likely changes in sexual function. So if I don't need those to feel good, why bother?

I realize there are still lots of difficulties with being gender non-conforming, but I'll just start small and work my way up.

Hi Luca, the most important item to remember is to be true to yourself, accept who you are and how you want to live. I have learned in a short period of time there is a wide spectrum of transgendered woman ranging from full-time female with surgery and HRT to something like you are considering. The label is not important.

Do what you feel is right for you. Find a gender therapist, if you don't have one already, who will help you navigate these questions.

You will eventually land in a place that makes you comfortable and feel whole.

Hugs Zoey xoxo

My own experiences through life has been with a feminine mindset with a male body.  Social needs directed me to be as society dictated.  I shaped my persona to be agreeable to myself and others.  Even though I had recognized I could possibly be transgender in my teens, I knew that at that time it was totally unobtainable.  Now that I've become aware of my truest nature and now have the resources to start transitioning, I find that my persona hasn't changed much.  It's true that I allow more of myself the freedom of being me, but it's not that far off from where I was. 
38 years married to my best friend, who has always known I was not like the rest of the guys she knew.  I was more sensitive and caring and feminine in nature.  She is still working it all out with her own thoughts, but after a year and a half we still profess our love and devotion with smiles, hugs and kisses.  Until she has it sorted out, I can easily feel comfortable in our personal social group to present androgynously, long hair, hairless face and body (most), and I now wear womens cut clothing that make me feel comfortable, but not necessarily standing out.  My mannerisms are what they always have been.  As often as I am able, I spend day trips with friends au femme, sometimes for extended weekends.
As I progress, like life, I will adapt to the situation that is easiest to be comfortable to the both of us.  It's been a slow but steady transition for me, so I'm certain I'll get to where I need to be.

Hugs and smiles from a California girl

When I finally decided I had to 'Transition', I had this vision of myself as an elegant older woman.

Now on hormones for a while, I've got what I always wanted — peace with myself; and how I present is less important to me.

If people looking at me can't decide if I'm male or female; I'm OK with that.  Yes my hair is more female, clothing is more female, and breasts are doing their thing.  I've acquired bras that will either enhance my femininity or compress my breasts to my chest.

I will, eventually, fully transition.  However, at the moment I'm not feeling any urgency.  I too have a long term significant other / wife.  She's trying to be supportive.  She always sensed the femininity in me.  Yet having it out in the open now conflicts with societal & familial conditioning.  She's struggling.  To protect the relationship I'm going slower than I would really like to go.  We've been happily together for 25 years.  I can't just blow that up.

I AM enjoying the peace I finally have with myself and taking everything Day by Day.

Some of our close friends have noticed some changes in me.  We have teasing conversations of ear rings (I did pierce my ears after years of threatening) / low pony tails / high pony tails / man buns.  It doesn't bother me.  In the end I'm going to find the look that I'm happy with.  End of Story....

Kate


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Lucca, this is what I basically have done.

I just wear what I want and think I look good in, and while most of my clothes come from the women's department, I just don't normally wear skirts or dresses out.

I don't make a big deal out of pronouns, and getting people to even use a unisex nickname instead of my birth name is usually too much trouble.

Full transition seemed right for me back when I joined here, but it isn't really necessary for me at this time. Just because it is necessary for a lot of people here, doesn't mean it's right for you.

I do consider myself non-binary, and I've yet to tell anyone in real life. I don't want to teach Gender Theory 101 to everyone I meet, though I would want to tell those that I date if I ever start dating again.

Quote from: Lucca on January 15, 2019, 12:29:33 PM
I realize there are still lots of difficulties with being gender non-conforming, but I'll just start small and work my way up.

        Lucca just an alternate thought: wouldn't it be easier, these days less "non-conforming", to simply fully transition female but keep the 'male dress code' for now? From a 'social' point of view which do ya think would be more personally "comfortable": being a "girlish guy" or . . . "guy in a dress"?

Under-garments & tucked prostate extension aside of course!

lol I've got "church men's group" every Weds night and 'ave already been asked -> "How long have you had that pony-tail"(?) Told 'em since the sixties? Since last time I had a job interview? If ya have it then FLAUNT IT otherwise  . . . In passing another in that "religious group" also brought up "gay" so perhaps there's hope for us after all?

Quote from: Chloe on January 16, 2019, 03:57:38 PMlol I've got "church men's group" every Weds night and 'ave already been asked -> "How long have you had that pony-tail"(?) Told 'em since the sixties?

I'll add to my original post; the change of my appearance has also come up, occasionally, at church.  My answer to the question is this:  "Since I don't have customers any more,  I'm reverting back to my hippie years when I was in college."  (They all know all about my career with IBM.). That then leads to maybe a little gentle teasing or them opening up about their younger years.

That said NOBODY HAS CHANGED their opinion of me.  I also am not advertising to the men I've now accepted myself as trans. 

There are a few of women who know; my wife's best friend; who I came out to because at some point my wife would need to talk, and a couple of younger women that figured it out.

Kate


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you're not alone. I also have decided to exist between for now and exist simply as me. What's that mean? I slide up and down the spectrum daily. Though I do slip through cracks more every day.   Voice mannerisms and all. I may still transition fully Sometime later. External Dress is still either or, but working on changing that some. The clothes don't make you. They allow expression and an extension of your personality.

Quote from: Chloe on January 16, 2019, 03:57:38 PM
        Lucca just an alternate thought: wouldn't it be easier, these days less "non-conforming", to simply fully transition female but keep the 'male dress code' for now? From a 'social' point of view which do ya think would be more personally "comfortable": being a "girlish guy" or . . . "guy in a dress"?

Maybe, but I'm ultimately nervous about permanent physical changes. I think I'll be more comfortable proving to myself that I can do this first, and then re-examine whether I want hormones at a later time.

I will say that my hair is pretty long by now and I've been taking good care of it so it's soft and silky, that makes me a lot more confident in my female aesthetic than I used to be.

Quote from: Zoey421 on January 15, 2019, 02:17:31 PM
Hi Luca, the most important item to remember is to be true to yourself, accept who you are and how you want to live. I have learned in a short period of time there is a wide spectrum of transgendered woman ranging from full-time female with surgery and HRT to something like you are considering. The label is not important.

Do what you feel is right for you. Find a gender therapist, if you don't have one already, who will help you navigate these questions.

You will eventually land in a place that makes you comfortable and feel whole.

Hugs Zoey xoxo

Wow Zoey - Pretty good for someone that is just coming out - and you are exactly right.

Lucca - It's not about being 'trans enough ' for everyone else.  You didn't say that but I inferred it.  This is all about living as the authentic you. 

Early in my transition I had some friends that were very outspoken and negative to be candid regarding Non Binary people.  I bought into that opinion for a short time.  Now I have evolved.  I believe in a gender spectrum.  Gender is a spectrum just like sexuality is as well. 

If you truly feel comfortable living in the way you described then that is great.  If you or someone else does so due to fear that is an entirely different thing.  But if your vision of the future is how you think you will live your truth that is all that matters.

The entire point of this journey is to live in the way that makes us happiest ( or even less sad in some cases ) but the goal is to live as YOU, not anyone else's expectation.

I lived like that for the first eighteen months or so that I was on HRT.  I dressed androgynously or wore women's clothes that were pretty subtle, and clipped back or pony tailed my hair.  Meanwhile, I still put on a men's suit and tie for going to court (I'm an attorney) but dressed however I wanted when I was in my home office.

At around the eighteen month mark I started to experience the magic of male fail.  I would walk into a men's restroom and guys would be staring at me or looking at me funny.  I started to realize that 1) it was time to really look at living full time, and 2) it was safer to use the women's restrooms than the men's.

I've been intentionally misgendered twice by bigots and I've been unintentionally misgendered a lot -- but mostly by older folks who knew me for a long time as male.

I've rarely had a problem with anyone I've met since transitioning.  I really don't make a big deal of it if it happens.  I know who I am, and I am happy with what I see when I look in the mirror.

After further consideration, I'm going back to thinking that I'll probably go on HRT and go full-time eventually. But, I'm still leaving the door open to just doing whatever I end wanting to do, and try not to overthink anything. And, of course, consult my therapist and doctors.

Quote from: Lucca on January 28, 2019, 09:18:22 AM
After further consideration, I'm going back to thinking that I'll probably go on HRT and go full-time eventually. But, I'm still leaving the door open to just doing whatever I end wanting to do, and try not to overthink anything. And, of course, consult my therapist and doctors.

It is good to be flexible, open minded, and reflective as to what is the best course of action.

Chrissy

Ultimately, I figure that on a day to day basis, I can always present myself however I want regardless of hormones. However, I would really like a lot of the changes from HRT, and most of them aren't even permanent if you stop. Obviously, you shouldn't go on it without careful consideration, but the absolute worst case scenario would be stopping it and then getting a breast reduction, and infertility that can be mitigated by using sperm bank.

Quote from: CarlyMcx on January 17, 2019, 04:34:52 PM
I lived like that for the first eighteen months or so that I was on HRT.  I dressed androgynously or wore women's clothes that were pretty subtle, and clipped back or pony tailed my hair.  Meanwhile, I still put on a men's suit and tie for going to court (I'm an attorney) but dressed however I wanted when I was in my home office.

At around the eighteen month mark I started to experience the magic of male fail.  I would walk into a men's restroom and guys would be staring at me or looking at me funny.  I started to realize that 1) it was time to really look at living full time, and 2) it was safer to use the women's restrooms than the men's.

I've been intentionally misgendered twice by bigots and I've been unintentionally misgendered a lot -- but mostly by older folks who knew me for a long time as male.

I've rarely had a problem with anyone I've met since transitioning.  I really don't make a big deal of it if it happens.  I know who I am, and I am happy with what I see when I look in the mirror.

I think your life story is good advice.  Like some I don't know how this will unfold but I suspect that with many problems time either solves them or at least makes deciding easier.  If you were in a men's room looking as you do in your avatar I would be giving you a puzzled look.   Be it HRT for over a year or whatever it is that your doing you look amazing. 

Quote from: Lucca on January 28, 2019, 09:58:01 AM
Ultimately, I figure that on a day to day basis, I can always present myself however I want regardless of hormones. However, I would really like a lot of the changes from HRT, and most of them aren't even permanent if you stop. Obviously, you shouldn't go on it without careful consideration, but the absolute worst case scenario would be stopping it and then getting a breast reduction, and infertility that can be mitigated by using sperm bank.

True and it can't hurt to hedge your bets.  If HRT is underwhelming and you discontinue it soon enough you might be able to avoid any permi changes but I would ask your endo what that cut off time is and when you get near it do some thinking on how it felt and if that was great? normal?  nya?  not-normal feeling.  Most of the time I think we hear from the folks who feel at least great.  A few that go from feeling wrong to normal but not as many that it didn't gell with them.  Banking is probably a good idea.  I'm not sure of your age but no regrets eh?  Anyway good luck.  Do what you need not what others think you need.  But don't be afraid to ask for help / advice from your doctors or therapist.