Hello briefly I am 36 amab nonbinary trans person.  And I want to ask has anyone ever encountered other intolerant binary transwoman who are dismissive of other trans folk whose journey in life is not exactly the same as theres?  I am SO TIRED of encounters with people who act like being trans is some competition and we all get a darn handbook or something.   People are constantly like oh "that person is not trans" or "that's a man"....that infuriates me.  I have a real dislike for being called a "guy"....it didn't used to be like that.  When I started down this path I started with no clear destination in mind, but i knew i couldn't stay the way things were.  My feeling on this is we are all on the same tree just some of us are on different branches on that same tree.  I didn't know I was going to have "copilots" or back seat drivers.  I wish folks would mind their business

I'm a binary trans woman so I haven't experienced that directly, though I have seen that sort of behavior online. While part of the explanation is that some people are just jerks, part of it is a form of internalized transphobia. Some people start to believe negative things about trans people, they then try to police others behavior, and separate themselves (a good trans person) from others (a bad trans person). It's a difficult mode of thought to unlearn.

I know people who have encountered that kind of thing.  I haven't encountered it myself.

The support group I have attended, which is where I have met most of the trans people I know in real llife, has a strict policy against that kind of exclusionism.

Quote from: mako9802 on January 22, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
Hello briefly I am 36 amab nonbinary trans person.  And I want to ask has anyone ever encountered other intolerant binary transwoman who are dismissive of other trans folk whose journey in life is not exactly the same as theres?  I am SO TIRED of encounters with people who act like being trans is some competition and we all get a darn handbook or something.   People are constantly like oh "that person is not trans" or "that's a man"....that infuriates me.  I have a real dislike for being called a "guy"....it didn't used to be like that.  When I started down this path I started with no clear destination in mind, but i knew i couldn't stay the way things were.  My feeling on this is we are all on the same tree just some of us are on different branches on that same tree.  I didn't know I was going to have "copilots" or back seat drivers.  I wish folks would mind their business

Their exclusionary and unkind behavior is plain wrong.

Chrissy

Where was this happening? I haven't encountered this before between trans people.

That sounds like black white thinking where someone has to put a label on everything.  And everything has to fit in one box or another.

Quote from: mako9802 on January 22, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
And I want to ask has anyone ever encountered other intolerant binary transwoman who are dismissive of other trans folk whose journey in life is not exactly the same as theres?  I am SO TIRED of encounters with people who act like being trans is some competition...

Oh, yeah!  I've gotten this for the strangest reasons.  One is coming after me for not supporting her favorite nonprofit (I have issues with how they spend internally, and their behavior towards folks other than gay men...).  My saying I won't support her fave means that I am not a REAL trans person.   

People get some idea in their head that what they do is the right way to be, attract an affinity group with the same practices as theirs, and through the wonders of self-reinforcement determine that their way is the One and Only True Way.  Unbelievers are out!

I have been told that I am too trans, and not trans enough.  I've been chastised for being too femme, and not femme enough, within a 15 minute span, no wardrobe changes. 

People are funny.

Mainly at my job...I work  in a call center.  There are many many of the stereotypical hyper feminine trans females there.  They have been extremely dismissive  of me.  Them and other gay men as well considering most of them probably identified as gay men at one point in time.   I know  i am far from hyper feminine in my actions all  i know  is i hate seeing a man  when i look in the mirror and that was enough to begin my journey down this path.   I mean I literally recoil  when someone I  calls me male, i prefer she or just my name.

I have seen this before in other transwomen.  Some of them I consider friends but I strongly disagree with them regarding dismissing non binary people.  When I first started transitioning many of those same friends were very critical of NB people claiming that they were inauthentic and in denial.  For a short time I bought into this belief.  I have evolved.

It is NOT a contest and the position of 'more trans than thou' is ridiculous.  I also agree with the opinion that it is their own internalized transphobia.  Far too many of us in this community are still in denial of our own internalized transphobia and it manifests itself in different ways - one of which is a contest to see who is the girly-est or most trans.

People need to let others live their own lives.  Funny that we are a group that asks for just that but we can't grant it to others that are in our 'family'.

Isn't the need to create a contest and compete a sign of masculinity?

Quote from: mako9802 on January 22, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
Hello briefly I am 36 amab nonbinary trans person.  And I want to ask has anyone ever encountered other intolerant binary transwoman who are dismissive of other trans folk whose journey in life is not exactly the same as theres?  I am SO TIRED of encounters with people who act like being trans is some competition and we all get a darn handbook or something.   People are constantly like oh "that person is not trans" or "that's a man"....that infuriates me.  I have a real dislike for being called a "guy"....it didn't used to be like that.  When I started down this path I started with no clear destination in mind, but i knew i couldn't stay the way things were.  My feeling on this is we are all on the same tree just some of us are on different branches on that same tree.  I didn't know I was going to have "copilots" or back seat drivers.  I wish folks would mind their business

@mako9802
I agree with you completely. 
Why can't we ALL ...  ALL OF US in the transgender camp just get along, we are all in this together and we should be giving each other encouragement and support.   We all have our own unique journeys to navigate, with different successes and different difficulties with relationships, employment, acceptance and non-acceptance, with our HRT progress, and with our unique body change timelines.

The infighting just causes factions in our overall group.... not productive at all.

Thank you for sharing your insightful thoughts and for starting and posting this thread.
Hugs and well wishes,
Danielle

Yes.

I am not non binary but I can see there is confusion over what non binary is even among trans people, and some of them think the non binary makes the trans label look bad or confused with itself.

Quote from: Kylo on January 22, 2019, 07:03:11 PM
Yes.

I am not non binary but I can see there is confusion over what non binary is even among trans people, and some of them think the non binary makes the trans label look bad or confused with itself.

@Kylo
Dear Kylo:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts....   
Very good points that you brought up.

It is always amazing to me that a group that should be in solidarity with each other can be so insensitive to others that are in the same boat.

Thanks again for sharing your comment.
Danielle

I am binary, as with all things it is hard to understand someone unlike ourselves. I know it seems like a trans thing from the question, it is not though, it is a human thing. We can actively pursue tolerance or find ourselves, without real cause, opposing someone that we don't understand.

Sorry that you have to experience that on a daily basis. I can't imagine treating someone that way, it's ridiculous. Validation and rationalization digs under the skin and it is possible that trans people need more of those two than any group on earth.

Be you darling. You seem so strong, much stronger than me  , you can let it roll off your back. Don't worry about them, seems you are more comfortable with who you are than they are.

It still irks the hell out of me that stuff like that happens in our, very vulnerable, community.

Quote from: Maid Marion on January 22, 2019, 06:17:16 PM
Isn't the need to create a contest and compete a sign of masculinity?

Oh, my, YES!

Women are generally fairly cooperative and helpful to one another compared to men, but in some trans feminine cliques, well...  WOW!   

I'm somewhere in the femme to high femme range, but at a trans meetup last night, I felt odd.  I was dressed appropriately for the venue, folks gathering after work for light dinner and socializing, but the way much of this group was dressed!  Hyper-feminine is a good description.  Very few even responded to me when I said hello.  I spent the evening chatting with a few other old friends, also 'under-dressed' for this crowd.

Who am I to tell others what to do with their lives. I haven't experienced anyone doing this to me over my gender transition. I have felt dismissed by others when it comes to my sexual orientation having changed through transition. Sometimes I can dismiss their comments. Sometimes I feel frustrated or hurt by people's comments. Life goes on.

Quote from: Maid Marion on January 22, 2019, 06:17:16 PM
Isn't the need to create a contest and compete a sign of masculinity?

Yes, they need to do it this way now.  Because pounding their chests hurts to much with the new boobs in the way!

This is TERRIBLE. Especially since we are in such a vulnerable and sensitive and confusing place to begin with as we find ourselves on the transition highway.  The last thing we need is this unsupportive BS. 
SAD!

Reading the replies it would appear that we are all on the same page but I assure everyone that we are not.  I have met many both IRL and online that see a hierarchy of transwomen.  This pertains to many things including but not limited to...

Binary vs Non binary
Full time vs part time
In the closet or out of the closet
Pretty vs not
GRS or not
not to even mention the cross-dressing community - many of which will eventually acknowledge that they are trans.

etc etc etc

If you identify as anywhere or anything or anybody in the transgender spectrum that's good enough for me.  I do encourage living authentically but before you can do that you have to at least be honest with yourself.

Let's work on the acceptance of everyone because if we can't why would anyone else?

In a perfect world we would all just be PEOPLE. However, we are a world of compartments, cliques, groups, subgroups, tribes and nations. I use to get really bent out of shape internally when I started transition and would get called sir, it hurt, I panicked and left what ever situation(I looked like a boy in a dress for eight months give or take) Now it's just my voice that breaks and gives me away. I  prefer to be called what I present as that is feminine, I really preferred to be called Sexy Stuff by my partner Susan, Margarine by my best friend Nanci, Daughter by my father. The pronoun thing is just so vexing, I call people guys, have been referred t o as you guys or ladies or ya'all in a group or a pair. I stopped going to support groups as there was too much whispering and judging, it was like junior high school. So yes, I wish we could all just go along to get along. So for my part I just introduce myself as Margaret, in the past 6 months I have had three people ask if I was trans, they were polite and it turned into a long conversation and me texting them some recourses. The very few times that I have gotten the rude are you a man or woman, I reply yes which set of chromosomes would you like me to show you? Or I tried being a man, but it was way too much work