Hey Everybody! How's your weekend going? I'm doing terrific. 

Anyways, I was wondering about this concept of cis passing. I've heard the term before and I was wondering what it meant to everyone here. It seems like when people say that someone is cis passing it means that they pass well enough that most people they interact with wouldn't know they are trans without being told. Does that sound about right?

I want to pass well enough that I could have relationships with people without them knowing I'm trans. I've passed well enough 'at a glance' and 'at a distance' for a while, but it seems like when I interact with people closely they always seem to know sooner or later that I am transgender. Sometimes I feel guilty about this because I shouldn't be ashamed of being trans and even though I know that wanting to pass to make your life easier isn't something to feel guilty about I know the real reason I want to pass like that is because I am ashamed of being trans (at least a little).

Anyways, I talked to my sister about this and she--I love her, but she's so critical sometimes--tells me that she doesn't think I should get any facial surgeries and she also said that I'm assuming that I'm not passing when I actually probably am, and also that I have body dysmorphia or whatever. I haven't been misgendered since Christmas (this was with family who are probably used to thinking of me as a guy, so that could be why...) and I was wondering if...

Do I have the right definition of what 'cis passing' means?
Do I pass for cis right now?

(These pictures are obviously with makeup and I know pictures don't tell the whole story since they're only from the front, etc., but I thought they might help give a frame of reference)
Will FFS push me over the edge? So to speak?

What does everyone think?

Actually  "passing" means passing so that no one knows you are trans. I've never heard the term "cis passing".

I find that as I appear more feminine I'm more likely to have conversations with GGs that are things that only GGs would talk about, like shopping for clothes at thrift stores.  And, because we are both small, we get to talk about stuff that may offend someone who is plus sized.

Quote from: Maid Marion on February 23, 2019, 12:27:13 PM
I find that as I appear more feminine I'm more likely to have conversations with GGs that are things that only GGs would talk about, like shopping for clothes at thrift stores.  And, because we are both small, we get to talk about stuff that may offend someone who is plus sized.

That's so true, and I worry that the reason everyone seems to know that I'm transgender is because I always have nothing to contribute when the conversation inevitably turns to 'the pill' or menstrual cycles (it seems like any group of women will eventually talk about these things at least once. This has a 100% chance of happening in my experience. lol)

Quote from: Julia1996 on February 23, 2019, 12:25:03 PM
Actually  "passing" means passing so that no one knows you are trans. I've never heard the term "cis passing".

My therapist told me that passing for one person means something different for other people. If someone sees you as a woman with no qualifier, then that's passing. And for some very progressive people that means you can pass without looking at all 'like a woman' because they understand that what matters is what's inside you, not your outward appearance. For some people, to pass you would need to look 'like a woman' enough that they assume that you are cisgender because that is the only way they would consider you a real woman.

And that's why some people use the term 'cis passing'. Or, at least, that's my understanding of it.

I've never heard of cis passing before. It sounds like you're describing "stealth".

Angela, ok, from those pictures I would say wear a wig and never wear a baseball cap in public. In the first picture I wouldn't give you a second glance if I saw you in public. The second picture however would cause me to take a second look at you. It's not that you are obviously trans in the second picture, your features are feminine and pretty, but something with the really short hair and baseball cap makes me take a second look.  Maybe invest in a cheaper wig for the gym and things like that. With a wig I don't see you having any problem blending in and passing in most any situation. I think longer hair is something you need to pass well. But don't feel bad over that, lots of CIS women can't do short hair either.

Quote from: Julia1996 on February 23, 2019, 12:51:26 PM
Angela, ok, from those pictures I would say wear a wig and never wear a baseball cap in public. In the first picture I wouldn't give you a second glance if I saw you in public. The second picture however would cause me to take a second look at you. It's not that you are obviously trans in the second picture, your features are feminine and pretty, but something with the really short hair and baseball cap makes me take a second look.  Maybe invest in a cheaper wig for the gym and things like that. With a wig I don't see you having any problem blending in and passing in most any situation. I think longer hair is something you need to pass well. But don't feel bad over that, lots of CIS women can't do short hair either.

This was also in reply to your post about passing at the gym.

Angela, you have quite feminine facial features already.  If I had a face like that, I wouldn't consider FFS.  You certainly pass in my eyes.  The left picture, with the longer hair looks unmistakeably feminine.  The right picture, with the cap and the shorter hair, looks androgynous, slightly weighted towards the Femme side.

Passing is not particularly important to me.  It does happen sometimes, and I enjoy it when it does, as a happy surprise.  I am more concerned with how people treat me.  If they treat me as a woman, I'm happy.  (I have never heard the term "cis passing" before.)

I agree that the left pic passes, but not the right one.

Quote from: Devlyn on February 23, 2019, 12:46:39 PM
I've never heard of cis passing before. It sounds like you're describing "stealth".

Right, stealth. Or maybe 'stealth-capable' since I'm never going to go into hiding exactly. All my friends and family already know that I'm trans and that isn't going to change.

Quote from: KathyLauren on February 23, 2019, 02:02:37 PM
Angela, you have quite feminine facial features already.  If I had a face like that, I wouldn't consider FFS.  You certainly pass in my eyes.  The left picture, with the longer hair looks unmistakeably feminine.  The right picture, with the cap and the shorter hair, looks androgynous, slightly weighted towards the Femme side.

Passing is not particularly important to me.  It does happen sometimes, and I enjoy it when it does, as a happy surprise.  I am more concerned with how people treat me.  If they treat me as a woman, I'm happy.  (I have never heard the term "cis passing" before.)

About FFS: I really want to get FFS so I can pass without makeup or a wig. Sometimes I go out without either, but I have no illusions about passing when I do. Here's a picture for comparison:

(I might delete this photo in time, depends on how I feel about it later, sorry in advance)
(Hi Applejack!)

As time goes by I'm becoming more and more okay with the androgynous face that I see in the mirror in the mornings. I'm learning how to let go of my previous transphobic standards of beauty and to love myself for who I am, but part of why I want FFS is that it feels kind of like reclaiming the face that I should have had, the face that I was entitled to...

I think it's kind of interesting that people are claiming that my picture with the baseball cap is androgynous. I really like wearing caps; they're very comfy and casual in a way that feels just my style. The photo is a little older than the other one (left photo I took three(?) days ago, right photo is from two(?) months ago) and the makeup is a little messed up because I was at the gym prior, but it's one of my favorite selfies actually which is why I kept it.

From all the comments it's looking like 'cis passing' maybe isn't a commonplace term or at least not one with a standard definition. It can be hard to keep up with all the changes in language around the subject of gender and transgender experiences in particular, so maybe it's not surprising. Thanks for all the responses so far everyone, it's been interesting!

Passing is about a lot more than just your face.
Voice and mannerisms are very important and your movements may out you as well. The motoric of a male and a female are very different so it's important to give enough attention to your movements as well.

I didn't have FFS but I'm cis passing because my voice and movements are very on point.

In that first picture I wouldn't second guess you. In that second picture you look androgynous leaning feminine.

Only get FFS for yourself though. Not because you are expected to get it.
You already are very beautiful as you are.

Luv,
Debby