MTF, pre-everything, appointment for HRT in May. I'm one of those trans girls that thought for years it was "just a fetish." My sexual fantasies were always first and foremost about me being a woman. I've never had much in the way of strong sexual attraction for other people; my feelings for women were a confusing mix of envy that I mistook for attraction, and I haven't found myself idly fantasizing about any men in particular. I do notice that my female self-ideation fantasies often involve sex or companionship with some faceless, identity-less male figure, and I've wanted to cuddle a lot with guys (which, in embarrassing hindsight, I manifested for a long time as being the wacky friend with no concept of personal space -_- ).

I read a lot about people finding their sexuality after transition, so I'm curious what I may discover with HRT. I thought I'd reach out in advance and see if any other trans women had an experience like this, wherein they fantasized about being with some notion of a man (I'm reminded of the line from "When Harry Met Sally" wherein Sally says, "I miss the idea of him") but didn't have specific sexual fantasies about specific men (at least prior to transition). I'm also wondering if those that might've had such an experience developed different feelings after or during transition.

People who are not trans women are of course welcome to share as well, I just aimed this question at trans women since that's what I am.

I can totally relate to all of this.  The feeling that "it" is a fetish (whether it was cross dressing, or the desire to be a woman, or an envious feeling, or a deep sense of being a lesbian trapped in a man's body, etc).  Though I did at times question my sexuality and orientation, I never had any sexual or romantic experiences with men.  (Though I was also like that overly friendly buddy!)

I've been on HRT now for a few years and one of the biggest surprises has been that, as I began to feel safe to be myself, I also found that i really enjoyed attention from men.  I really enjoy being held and handled by men, such as in dancing.  It all sort of struck me when I realized that his masculinity made it safe for me to be more genuinely feminine.  I'm usually really cautious about generalizing masculine and feminine attributes but there was a very physical response-- not merely sexual, but an ease and comfort that I had NEVER felt before in a relationship.

I don't have a high sex drive (never did) but when I feel this with a guy, it feels better than sex ever did, and I want more!


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Quote from: AliceOrKelly on February 21, 2019, 07:04:12 PM
I read a lot about people finding their sexuality after transition, so I'm curious what I may discover with HRT.

         AorK, if ok to call you that, suppose a 'Welcome' is in order and really do feel as if your experience somewhat shadows mine in the sense that "physical predisposition"₍₁₎ accounts for a lot, but feel it's not something extensively discussed around here. If you've had experiences and/or fantasies regarding "other males" prior to HRT then chances are that will also carry over into your transition future or, to put more simply, basic orientation is set and is not really going to change. I chalk it up to how much "homophobia" was ingrained in the first place as many "trans", once set in their "woman ways", never seem to get past that basic male inhibition.

        Recently found an interesting study on "transgender defense mechanisms" I've been wanting to post perhaps you'll find this helpful too? Sorry NOT DUMPING THIS ON YOU IN PARTICULAR look forward to your reply/participation and trust you'll not become another "one post wonder"!

(1):as opposed to the more nefarious "dysphoria" only Current members don't let the context references to dreadful "Blanchard" put you off seems like this study has a much healthier, unbiased approach!

Quote from: AliceOrKelly on February 21, 2019, 07:04:12 PM
MTF, pre-everything, appointment for HRT in May. I'm one of those trans girls that thought for years it was "just a fetish." My sexual fantasies were always first and foremost about me being a woman. I've never had much in the way of strong sexual attraction for other people; my feelings for women were a confusing mix of envy that I mistook for attraction.

I read a lot about people finding their sexuality after transition, so I'm curious what I may discover with HRT.

Hello AliceOrKelly

I highlighted your first part only as that is how I previously felt.

I always had a strong desire to be a little girl and then later to go through puberty girl to woman and then to be a woman; I also had a small attraction to a small number of women but which I believe was mainly one of envy AND ALSO one of genuine attraction and hence these feelings to me were in unison and not in competition or confusion.

I have never had any sexual feelings towards men. However please see my next comment in reply to Miranda.

Although I have always been mainly asexual with a minor attraction towards women and therefore am now mainly asexual with minor lesbian tendencies, I leave my future sexual orientation open as who knows the future? However I strongly expect it to remain as it is.

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: MirandaLove on February 22, 2019, 12:17:09 AM
I can totally relate to all of this.  The feeling that "it" is a fetish (whether it was cross dressing, or the desire to be a woman, or an envious feeling, or a deep sense of being a lesbian trapped in a man's body, etc).  Though I did at times question my sexuality and orientation, I never had any sexual or romantic experiences with men.  (Though I was also like that overly friendly buddy!)

I've been on HRT now for a few years and one of the biggest surprises has been that, as I began to feel safe to be myself, I also found that i really enjoyed attention from men. 

Hello Miranda

I have explained my position above but just wish to add that I felt and feel precisely the same as you. Previously and now no sexual or romantic interest in men but now Yes really enjoying the attention of men (and still nothing more).

Hugs

Pamela 

Hi, AliceOrKelly!

Welcome to Susan's Place.

I can relate to a lot of what you say.  In my younger years, I experienced my dysphoria as sexual confusion, which left me isolated and inexperienced.  I, too, dismissed my desire to be a woman as a fetish.  I eventually (like, in my sixties!!) realized that the confustion stemmed from wanting to both BE a woman and BE WITH a woman.

Who we get attracted to is all over the map.  Some trans women are attracted to women all their lives, some are attracted to men all their lives, some are attracted to both, and some find that their attraction changes when they transition.  There really is no way to predict how it will go for you.  This is one case where "your mileage may vary" (YMMV) is literally true.

Please feel free to stop by the Introductions forum to tell the members about yourself.  Here is some information that we like to share with new members:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	Cautionary Note	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

@AliceOrKelly 
Dear AliceOrKelly:
     I am so very glad that you have become a member here.  I am happy to see that you found the Susan's Place Forums.

     Our lovely member  @KathyLauren  has Officially Welcomed you to Susan's Place and the Forums....  you are now a part of a wonderful community of like-minded members in a place that we can all help each other.

    As you post on the forums you will be able to exchange thoughts and comments with others that are experiencing many of the same things that you are.   I expect that you will be getting many members offering their thoughts and suggestions as you continue to post here. 

    This is the right place for you to be to find out what others may have to say that may have been in your circumstances and with your questions and concerns.
    There are a lot of members here that will be able to identify with your situation and as you continue to feel free to share with all of us.

    I also want to warmly WELCOME you to Susan's Place. 
You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.

    As you are certainly aware you can share with others and involve yourself with some give and take with other like-minded members.  When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here if you wish and receive support from others and offer support to others. ....
     ***There is a very good chance that you might find that you will make some new like-minded friends here. 

    Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace.
   
    In her Welcome Message to you  KathyLauren  had attached important and informative LINKS that will help you to navigate around the Forums and will allow you to enjoy the features here.     
Please look closely at the LINKS in RED, answers are there to many questions that new members ask.

Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.
Danielle

@Scotia63   
Oh, and another thing Scotia...
As our lovely member  @KathyLauren    suggested please plan to write a post and tell us more about yourself in the Introductions Forum so that other members will be aware of your arrival... therefore you will be able to share your thoughts with more members here.
     
Thank you again for joining Susan's Place and being involved in the Forums here.
Best wishes to you,
Danielle
NOTE: Now after all of this Greeting Stuff I will let you have your thread back so you can pursue answers to your questions.
Other members here will certainly be along to give you their comments and suggestions that you may be seeking

Welcome, AliceOrKelly -

I can also relate to what you have posted. First thought it was a fetish until it hit me what it really is.

You are bringing up a very interesting point about attraction and changes occurring. It is not uncommon to ask questions in this area during your transition.

For me personally, I was always attracted to women. HRT has had an interesting effect: For the first 3 months and interest slowly went away. It came back after about 12 months in a stereotypically female way (much more into cuddling, more about slow sensations). My general attraction to females had not changed.

However... since I have set a surgery date, the situation has become a bit more interesting. While for a relationship, I still see my interest in women, I have started getting curious about being with a man. My dreams right now are about 50/50 men and women. While women are usually the "relationship" and more "Cuddling" style dreams with full body and faces (yeah sometimes people I know), my dreams about men are mostly about having fun and getting to satisfy my curiosity about how it will feel after surgery. These dreams are usually limited to a torso.

I would guess my attraction is still around women at this point. But who knows what will happen in the future.  Well, I know what will happen: I am married, so nothing will happen  .

Hugs,

Sarah

Quote from: AliceOrKelly on February 21, 2019, 07:04:12 PM
MTF, pre-everything, appointment for HRT in May. I'm one of those trans girls that thought for years it was "just a fetish." My sexual fantasies were always first and foremost about me being a woman. I've never had much in the way of strong sexual attraction for other people; my feelings for women were a confusing mix of envy that I mistook for attraction, and I haven't found myself idly fantasizing about any men in particular. I do notice that my female self-ideation fantasies often involve sex or companionship with some faceless, identity-less male figure, and I've wanted to cuddle a lot with guys (which, in embarrassing hindsight, I manifested for a long time as being the wacky friend with no concept of personal space -_- ).

I read a lot about people finding their sexuality after transition, so I'm curious what I may discover with HRT. I thought I'd reach out in advance and see if any other trans women had an experience like this, wherein they fantasized about being with some notion of a man (I'm reminded of the line from "When Harry Met Sally" wherein Sally says, "I miss the idea of him") but didn't have specific sexual fantasies about specific men (at least prior to transition). I'm also wondering if those that might've had such an experience developed different feelings after or during transition.

People who are not trans women are of course welcome to share as well, I just aimed this question at trans women since that's what I am.

I resonate with this in many ways, I have no attraction to the masculine at all. in fact most men are huge red flag turn off for me. too much baggage in that area. This led to much confusion as my femininity grew,right up till I became very close to a lesbian friend who told me my feelings are normal for a female attracted woman. Coupled with my wife being bisexual has cleared my confusions. As friends I can love men but I can never love a man as completely as I love women in general. My friend calls me her man hater and that I am a more radical lesbian than her, but it is just a joke between us. I admit envy when I see a woman with her eye makeup on point and her nails done flash.As for cuddles? it does not get more intimate than being on the couch with my wife and maybe a friend watching a movie cuddling under a warm blanket. The thought of cis-male energy in that moment is not good for me.
We all are so different and yet the same. To me that is beautiful 
Besos (kisses)
Mariabella

I definitely relate to almost everything you have to say, it could almost be my own story.  It is odd to be over forty and to be unclear on what my sexual orientation really is, but this is all a very 'interesting' journey.  I expect I will get some clarity as I go further in transition (I just started HRT a couple of weeks ago).

For me, I have just decided it's ok not to know, and am working on building comfort with non-sexual affection/touch with both genders.  I've never really been comfortable with sex, case in point, all five of my sexual partners were the initiators the first time and most subsequent times after.  Sex with women never felt 'right', but it felt more right than the alternative, except in fantasies, as you describe, where I was a woman.

I am loving the decrease in libido from HRT so far.  I feel so much more at peace.  I will eat more chocolate and forget about sex for a few years.

Quote from: KathyLauren on February 22, 2019, 06:53:56 AM

Who we get attracted to is all over the map.  Some trans women are attracted to women all their lives, some are attracted to men all their lives, some are attracted to both, and some find that their attraction changes when they transition.  There really is no way to predict how it will go for you.  This is one case where "your mileage may vary" (YMMV) is literally true.

Oh, Kathy I love you for saying this. Thank you!

I would add one thought. In my opinion, I would not lay a change in orientation at the feet of HRT as a stand alone. The whole process that can create a change in orientation is more complicated. In a transition, there is a tremendous perspective change. Maybe I should be careful not to over generalize, so I will use a case I am familiar with. Transitioning can change how you relate to men and women. What was once familiar, guys for example, can become less understandable, less relateable and foriegn. You tend to stop comparing where you are in the pecking order to not being in the pecking order at all.  You might have had some homophobia but you also may not have had it. You may have had your true sexuality squeezed and distorted by being a gender minded female in a male life full of male situations. How can some folks understand themselves fully orientation wise when things on your body are so wrong. Reminder, this is not true for everyone. Aligning the body with the mind also has an affect on how we think. Some folks able to function sexually in a male capacity before, no longer have the male genitals and adjustments have to be made. Mostly this doesn't cause gender change but I am saying, for some, it is part of the process. I am really just saying it is complicated and maybe in some cases, things can't be predicted. Every outcome is okay if it is right for the individual.

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 22, 2019, 08:31:38 PM
Every outcome is okay if it is right for the individual.

That says it all right there. 

For me, I had some really negative experiences when i was between 5 and 10 years old and shared my "curiousity" with my "buddies".  Likewise, I had negative experiences when i was separated from playing with the girls because we were too close.  Yeah, still trying to untie that stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just a quick comment to make the point that any "change" you might go through is not specifically due to hormones - they just don't do that. Any apparent change in sexual preference is down to already existing desires.

And for those prepared to point the finger at hormones, I ask you this. How? By what mechanism?

Quote from: PurplePelican on February 23, 2019, 03:23:49 PM
Just a quick comment to make the point that any "change" you might go through is not specifically due to hormones - they just don't do that. Any apparent change in sexual preference is down to already existing desires.

And for those prepared to point the finger at hormones, I ask you this. How? By what mechanism?

Thank you for your diagnosis!

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 23, 2019, 09:21:54 PM
Thank you for your diagnosis!

Anecdotes are not science. And the existing science just doesn't support the idea that hormones can change sexual preference. One of the many methods trialled to "cure" homosexuality in the 40's and 50's was hormones, it had no success - and probably cost Turing his life. There's no known mechanism by which this can happen.

Can your apparent sexual preference change as a result of transition? For sure, it happened to me. It's not at all uncommon, as I discovered when I discussed the concept with my therapist and gyno. They both made comments along the lines of, "Yes, I've found that happens during transition, it's a sign of growing self acceptance."

Quote from: PurplePelican on February 23, 2019, 10:06:43 PMit's a sign of growing self acceptance."

That certainly resonates with me

As I stated several times already. I am mostly asexual (I have not have any sexual relation or the last 15 or 16 years), and my libido is pretty much in the sub-basement.  If I would want to have a relation, I feel that this would be with a female, even if it is cuddling ony, I would feel more comfy cuddling a femle body.
I tried several times over the last few weeks to find men attractive, but it did not work that way.  I think a few men liked me, but I just can't get any positive vibes for men.
I still will try to keep an open mind, and wonder if my feelings ill change after the effects of my orchi show some results.

I really would not mind to be Bi, because it makes the pool for possible partners so much larger, but I don't know how I can get myself to feel this way!
Stupid brain and emotions!

Linde

As you know we are both mainly asexual and I must say I agree absolutely with your first para - cuddling much much better for an asexual person!

However one difference between us, I think, is that you may wish for a relationship in the proper sense in the due course of time. I do not. That is fine if you would consider that, as we are all different.

My strange position is that I do not seek a relationship at all because I am satisfied with friendship or would be satisfied with cuddling but I do not rule out the possibility that I could one day wish and even find a relationship!

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: pamelatransuk on February 24, 2019, 09:13:43 AM
Linde

As you know we are both mainly asexual and I must say I agree absolutely with your first para - cuddling much much better for an asexual person!

However one difference between us, I think, is that you may wish for a relationship in the proper sense in the due course of time. I do not. That is fine if you would consider that, as we are all different.

My strange position is that I do not seek a relationship at all because I am satisfied with friendship or would be satisfied with cuddling but I do not rule out the possibility that I could one day wish and even find a relationship!

Hugs

Pamela

Pamela, I was like you.  I have a lot of friends, but lately I feel kind of lonesome.  The friends go home when the street lights come on, and I am alone.  It is not the sex, it is sitting together with a person you care for, and reflecting on the past day (probably with a beverage of your choice in your hand), and talking about the upcoming days.  And after that going to bed together and just cuddle, have the so much needed skin contact.  And in the morning, having a cup of coffee together in bed, just tops this of!
It could be that I am that way now, because I am on the road to womanhood for many years already, and lately feel secure enough in my femininity,  to be a female partner in a relation?  I don't know, but I feel a real big void in my life, and wish I could fill this void with a loving partner!