Hi there,

I'm a female-bodied androgyne who cross-dresses as a guy in private.  In public I've never had the nerve to present as male (when I was younger and skinnier I got read as male a lot, bu that doesn't happen anymore) although I do wear gender-neutral attire and items that subtly suggest or refer to masculinity.  This is not something I do "for fun" or because it turns me on--I just sort of need to do it in a way I can't really explain.  I just feel more like my true self when I wear male attire.  It would drive me crazy to dress and present as a woman all the time; something dies inside me a little every time I get dressed for work, which necessitates femming down.

I'd like to cross-dress more of the time, and I'd like to socialise with other people who do not have conventional relationships with their genders.  I think I'd find it emotionally satisfying to CD in a semi-public environs such as a club.  The thing is I am very, very unhappy at the thought of possibly trespassing on other people's spaces.  I know how vital safe space is.  I'm not trans, I'm in a heterosexual relationship (I don't identify as female anymore, but I present as a woman and my boyfriend is a guy), I haven't ever paid any dues as a trans person or faced any of those challenges.  Therefore I'm concerned about finding a space where I won't be intruding and maybe causing anxiety or distress by my presence.   Any thoughts?  Should I maybe forget the idea and stick to CDing in private?

Well so much of that depends on where you are, but most gay/alt.sex places are down with it.

Hi there, thanks for the input.

Mmm...I think it would be completely inappropriate for me to attend a specifically gay space.  I'm not gay--I have same-sex attractions but I have never acted on them and I live a heterosexual lifestyle; I'm not entitled to go barging into other people's safe spaces just to show off my suit.

I'm in a large, fairly cosmopolitan European city with a reputation for being relatively chilled out about alt.sex.  I'm an inveterate perv and I used to go to BDSM clubs in London when I was younger, but the scene is a little different here.  In London there were large clubs with a dancey/mainstream crossover and high publicity, which I think it was okay for me to attend.  Here the scene is a little more circumspect.  You can find events if you look, but you do have to look... which makes me think that maybe I should respect the need for smaller, more private events and stay away.  My history with BDSM is pretty catastrophic, I've made some ugly mistakes, and I suspect I'm precisely the kind of person the community here can do without.  So I don't know...

Why DON'T you dress more as you please in public? The clothing standards are a lot more liberal then they used to be, and many women wear men's clothing in public as a fashion statement. In fact, there is a lot more latitude for women than for men. You may be surprised to find that wearing men's clothing can be far more acceptable than you think.

As for being read, I am, visually, to the outside world, male. I have been "crossdressing" publicly for my entire adult life. I'm bald on top, and unquestionably, one would expect me to be wearing men's clothing. I have always worn what I consider to be appropriate clothing. I'm TS, and I find that wearing men's clothing to be both uncomfortable, and degrading to myself as a woman. Even though my manner of dress is not always discrete, (I don't wear skirts or dresses in public without a wig and makeup) I very seldom have a problem. Sure, I will either hear a remark, or there will be a stare (or two), but nothing is really mean spirited, and I can understand the reaction. I'm doing what is right for me, and although I can understand the reaction from another person, I have my own life to live, and I'm going to go on doing just that. I won't put myself into a dangerous situation, common sense takes priority, but I know who I am, and do not have a problem dressing accordingly.

Well, I wear "male" clothes in public when possible--combat trousers and a t-shirt, usually--have short hair and generally don't use cosmetics.  However, my body type is unmistakably female.  I am no longer read as male, ever.  People certainly comment, but it's usually to call me an ugly b****.  I hate my body but at the same time I don't seem to be able to buckle down and lose the weight I need ot lose so I can start binding effectively.  I used to wear my "real" clothes a lot more often and shaved my head completely, but I can't do that anymore.  I work as an English tutor now and my clients would ditch me if I came to work in my male clothes.  I originally tried to get more modest employment, eg. a factory job like the ones I held down in England, but those are not available to me here.  Tutoring work is all I could get.  I know that what I'm doing is essentially a complete betrayal--dressing normatively just to get a pocketful of cash--but I cant seem to find any workable alternatives.  Maybe I'm just being weak.

Quote from: Lokaeign on April 12, 2008, 01:53:36 PM
I work as an English tutor now and my clients would ditch me if I came to work in my male clothes.  I originally tried to get more modest employment, eg. a factory job like the ones I held down in England, but those are not available to me here.  Tutoring work is all I could get.  I know that what I'm doing is essentially a complete betrayal--dressing normatively just to get a pocketful of cash--but I cant seem to find any workable alternatives.  Maybe I'm just being weak.

It's not a betrayal or weakness, sometimes one needs to do what's necessary to have a roof over their head and food. My work would evaporate if I wore female clothing (my preference) on what is generally perceived as a male body. I wish it were otherwise... but it isn't a perfect world.

Z

Obviously, your need to earn a living and to survive need to be the priority, but what you do on your free time is your own affair. What you wear under your outer clothes iis something only you are aware of, and by wearing combat trousers and a t-shirt plus a few choice accessories, you can produce any look that you want, from punk to rock to almost goth. Be creative, and I'm sure that you'll find a look that you'll be comfortable with that is also, more or less, acceptable.

Quote from: April221 on April 12, 2008, 04:31:01 PMby wearing combat trousers and a t-shirt plus a few choice accessories, you can produce any look that you want, from punk to rock to almost goth. Be creative, and I'm sure that you'll find a look that you'll be comfortable with that is also, more or less, acceptable.

*grin* Absolutely!  Actually, when I was active on the very fringes of the London goth subculture, 5 or 6 years ago now, I used to find that dressing up that way was a lot more comfortable.  For one thing, the gender signifiers are a lot different--lots of the boys have long hair and no facial hair, wear female attire and use cosmetics.  I found my body less problematic in some ways because I could pretend to myself that I was just "wearing" my top, like another accessory, as if it would just be folded away and put in a drawer when I disrobed.  I could also butch up with male signifying accessories like a bullet belt or biker boots.  I got read as male a lot in those days.

Now, even when I am wearing my combats, t-shirt + work boots, I get seen as female.  An ugly female, but still female.  I like my look otherwise, but I would have to make a serious effort to alter my sillhouette and do other things like maybe "grow" facial hair to be seen as a man anymore.  These are all things I don't really feel comfortable doing in my own neighbourhood or around town, so that's why I?m looking into the possibility of finding safer spaces to CD.